Whatever about other issues discussed here,
most enlightened people here accept and know we are not alone in the universe/galaxy,
no proof needed, the sheer numbers dictate so.
That being the case,
the only entitlements we have as humans will be to all the worlds and planetary bodies,
and anything else really,
that orbits our own Sun.
That is our playground.
If a time comes in the future that we have the ability to venture beyond this,
then we will be in someone else's backyard, and most likely brought to task accordingly.

There's true skeptics with an open mind on this forum who actually are interested in the "alien UFO" phenomenon, they are a very small percentage, but they do exist, like myself. These folks are a healthy ingredient to the community and you will sometimes see them, when they are around, also discussing with other members in some of the "saner" subject matter threads, documented events that still go unexplained but NEVER EVER attract the typical pseudo-skeptics that are constantly poking holes through obvious hoaxes like silly YouTube video's. When these "saner" or "cold cases" can't be explained via scientific method, and all other investigative avenues have been exhausted, if it walks and talks like a duck, in the end, it might just be a damn duck.

Pseudo-skeptics use the ever so tiresome demeaning sarcasm and childish wit, always skirting along the edges of the T&C's of this website. They tend to lie about their background to try and somehow elevate themselves above the rest of the crowd and will often deflect away from actual UFO evidence at every opportunity. These types have ZERO interest in the UFO/Alien phenomenon and are merely here to draw attention to themselves as if thinking they are doing a heroic service while patting themselves on the back for us all to see, you know who these people are, we all do. These people are not skeptics, they are not interested in the UFO field AT ALL and they DO NOT deserve your response. Just ignore them, by replying to them your are giving them a platform and an audience. Don't engage them and make them feel as if they are taking part in the ongoing conversation in discussion threads.

Originally posted by funbox
i reckon in should be scraped for

"todays truth..tomorrows horsehash"

or maybe

"truth today.. ignorance tommorow"

or even

" a cheese is just a cheese. untill its a mouse*"


*or even a moon in some cases

carl sagan... such an interesting fellow..

How about... "Yesterday's conspiracy theories are today's headlines"

“... there is no shame in not knowing. The problem arises when irrational thought and attendant behavior fill the vacuum left by ignorance.” -Neil DeGrasse Tyson

I know the ATS moto is meant to encourage actually learning the facts, and not remaining willfully ignorant as many are prone to doing ... but many of the things Neil DeGrasse Tyson says in his speaking engagements particularly resonate with me.

As been stated already ... admitting ignorance is tough!

Originally posted by Donegal_TDI
Whatever about other issues discussed here,
most enlightened people here accept and know we are not alone in the universe/galaxy,
no proof needed, the sheer numbers dictate so.

Unfortunately another example of what the OP laments.

Enlightened people do not KNOW we are not alone and the numbers alone only indicate a possibility, they do not DICTATE it to be so.

You have stated an opinion as fact. Both are welcomed when clearly distinguished.

Originally posted by AceWombat04

Case in point, the Condon committee. Despite declaring some sightings unknowns, Condon's whole attitude when entering the fray (much like the Robertson Panel before it,) was to debunk the "damn UFO." They started with the premise and assumption that there was nothing to it - arguably under some influence by the CIA I might add, who had a robust interest in the phenomenon albeit not publicly at the time - and confirmation bias did the rest. That's not a skeptical or honest approach. But neither is therefore concluding, "Ah, well they're covering it up, therefore it must be ET." There's not enough evidence to support that conclusion either in my opinion.

This.

The problem is that both sides are almost zealotous in their assertion to have the "true" story.

In the case of the Condon Report, it was damned before it started. While I wouldn't doubt alphabet agency pressure on the committee, I also wouldn't put it past them to place their professional reputations over objectivity. Their investigation into the phenomenon was anything BUT scientific.

I commend "Dr. Swampgas" for approaching the subject from a truly scientific standpoint, as well as having the nerve to state publicly that he felt the Robertson Panel and Condon Report were both a whitewash.

Now, as for the die-hard "believers"...

After all the years I've been at this, I've yet to see anything that tells me, with 100% certainty that the phenomenon has an extraterrestrial origin. We simply don't have enough data to support this.

That being said, I've personally had two sightings that were nothing short of awe-inspiring, and despite having over a decade to contemplate both sightings, I still can't state with any certainty what, exactly, it was that I saw.

I know that one was definitely a physical, metallic object, flying with neither wings or chemical thrust.

The other was more amorphous, and appeared to be a highly accelerating light, flying into an orange blob, after which, said orange blob contracted upon itself and disappeared.

I'd love to say that I saw alien spacecraft, but that would be disingenuous at best, and I'd be lying to myself.

All I know is that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the public consciousness can sufficiently account for what it was that I bore witness to. I have no more proof that the objects I witnessed were extraterrestrial in origin, than I do to say they were teenage mutant flying super squirrels.

Now, deductively, I can state with some certainty what they were NOT, and that is any conventional aircraft that we "lowly commoners" are privy to.

I guess, what chaps my hind-quarters, is that for every voracious skeptic, there is an equally assertive "die hard", who equates every bad CGI video on YouTube with "proof" of "aliens".

Don't even get me started on the abduction phenomenon. While I feel there is some validity to some of the claims, I won't accept that the phenomenon is extraterrestrial in nature, and even beyond that, I have a deep-seated belief that the abduction phenomenon is absolutely and totally rife with dis/misinformation; its waters are, I feel, the muddiest of all, in regards to this topic.

I guess the gist of what I'm saying is that if anyone, ANYONE, comes forth claiming to have all the answers, run, don't walk away from them. If I've learned anything from decades of studying this subject, it's that when someone comes along with a whole host of answers, my BS meter gets its needle buried.

The only people I trust on the subject are the ones who end up with more questions than answers. Mostly because it's mirrored my own experiences in delving into this. I can state, firmly, that I was a die-hard believer in the ETH when I started out, but it seems questions only lead to further unknowns.

The only thing I can state, with any honesty, is that I feel something absolutely extraordinary is occurring; however no hard and fast proof has ever been publicly disseminated.

ATS is just another front for the government.
As long as you're talking bullcrap it's fine by them.

Originally posted by pinobot
ATS is just another front for the government.
As long as you're talking bullcrap it's fine by them.

Do you have any proof of that?

Originally posted by pinobot
ATS is just another front for the government.
As long as you're talking bullcrap it's fine by them.

Straw Man argument. A feeble attempt at deflecting the conversation away from the truth.

Please present your facts to backup this statement. Otherwise, it's merely your opinion, and can be treated as such by everyone reading your posts.

Originally posted by Krakatoa

Originally posted by pinobot
ATS is just another front for the government.
As long as you're talking bullcrap it's fine by them.

Straw Man argument. A feeble attempt at deflecting the conversation away from the truth.

Please present your facts to backup this statement. Otherwise, it's merely your opinion, and can be treated as such by everyone reading your posts.

Agreed. A pointless, irrelevant statement to the topic at hand. Seems like the only intention is to derail the thread.

Thank you to the OP for bringing up a topic that has made me very frustrated w/ATS. Just opinion/attack/BS, etc. EVERY SINGTLE THREAD follows a certain, highly predictable pattern. I would like to know what a sociology professor would have to say about this forum-the patterns on the left & the right, the very very few who take the middle way, the ones who say they take the middle way, but are actually highly conservative, & highly protective of their belief systems that keep them safe & confident that they know the "world" & what it entails.

One thing that I've realized is that, among the 99% BS in this forum on the subject of UFOs, I guarantee you that many people glossed over or regected that 1% which is truth, because they cannot accept it, or refuse to accept it- because it may be socially unacceptable, politically incorrect, or downright "weird" (a variety of "socially unacceptable").

I have proof about this subject- that something is happenning, but it is personal proof- it doesn't hold water in any finite way. I can, however tell you that the truth about this subject IS weird, somewhat worrisome, & extraordinarily complex (which is why a forum thread will NEVER solve anything about this subject). It is so complex in fact, that we lack even the basic pre-requisites for beginning to understand the basics behind beginning to understand exactly what is happenning. In other words- right now we are so SURE that the earth is flat that we would kill eachother to defend this truth. I have had my share of experiences of contact, & yet I hold no claim upon understanding what is happening. What makes you think that a divided people, mostly w/ZERO true experience, could even begin to know anything about this subject- it's just pathetic.

I just wish that people would realize that social manipulation runs deep- far deeper than needed to just divide the people into "believers" & "skeptics", yet the ability to experience is the birthright of everyone, you just need the right mindset for it, but as long as you are content to apply labels to yourself as "believer" or "skeptic" that's all you will ever be.

It IS partially up to you- please don't underestimate your true potential!