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UFOs, ATS's "deny ignorance" motto and admitting ignorance

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posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 07:56 AM
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Awfully smarmy of you to claim people are ignorant of something theres more proof against than for. No matter what YOU THINK ignorance is, it is still only an opinion. Are you saying that if people were less ignorant, we would all figure out what UFO's are?

Gotta say, I dont follow one single belief system as theres no proof to definitively prove any of them, BUT...theres far more proof of a God than little green men.

It isnt about denying ignorance, its about seeing the truth when its right in front of your face. There are MAJOR hurdles to the belief we are being visited. Forget the length of travel time, forget the fuel needs to cover a light year. How is it since Roswell, people are still being abducted? With an advanced technology it would be ignorant to assume that an alien race is still studying human anatomy 70 years later. It appears these aliens have also not figured out the cow anatomy either because mutilation has been going on for 50 years too.

So they come to our planet to dissect cows and put tracker devices in humans, as well as steal our sperm and eggs...and yet, not one picture of an alien. Not one verifyable video. No spacecraft shot down and no underground alien base has been found. No bones, no dna, jewelry, clothing...not one piece of information to even lend credence to UFO's being anything other than Unidentified.

We have never gotten a radio message, no taking over the airwaves to say,"we come in peace", no alien war between good and bad like many claim, no envoy from The Galactic Federation of Light...there is absolutely zero proof. In fact, the evidence is so speculative and open to interperetation that it wouldnt even win a civil suit in court.

UFO believers point to the Drake equation to further their agenda. Again, math does not prove the possibility of anything no matter how many x's to the tenth power or other symbols are included. It muddies the waters. In fact, when confronted with any of the above gaping holes in UFO-ology, the ignorant believer throws more claims to muddy the waters...many of them sounding worse than Scientology.

I ask,"Why come to Earth for years and years to study us but the aliens never reveal themselves?" The ignorant reply is anywhere from,"They arent allowed to interfere with humans" to ,"They are studying our weaknesses". Really? By coming here and letting us film supposed spacecraft, they are interfering. Also, if it takes an interstellar species thousands of years to figure out human anatomy, we shouldnt fear them at all. Doesnt it make far more sense that a malevolent alien species would just bombard us with a virus from space than wipe us out Independence Day style? If they are nice, why kidnap people? For that matter, why dont they grow their own people instead of kidnapping anyway?

No, it is not those of us that dis-believe in aliens who are the ignorant ones. Ignorance is continuing to believe something when the proof against outweighs the proof for. In the case of aliens, there IS NO PROOF. Not one iota. Theres things people SAY prove their existence, but if it were really PROOF, thered be no need for the discussion on ignorance would there?

When you or anyone else has any proof whatsoever besides grainy YT vids, speculation, math problems, opinions, thousand year old rock paintings, please disclose. Until then, please refrain from calling those of us who dont believe your beliefs ignorant. Thats just ignorant.
edit on 2-1-2013 by MisterMaster because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 07:59 AM
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Denying Ignorance in my opinion is when someone else have an Opinion about a subject, which you may disagree but you STILL LISTEN(this is the point where you are denying ignorance) to the idea and think about it.

However, you can still refuse their idea, since it was an opinion of others to start with. Until large scale evidence is shown, it would still be an opinion. (this is the point where the person with the original idea will call others close minded because other did not agree with their idea).

"This image of Bigfoot is real, everyone who refuses it is just close minded" is ignorance in itself.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:20 AM
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"If your mind is empty, it is always open ready for anything; it is open to everything. In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." -Shunryu Suzuki-Roshi



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by MisterMaster
 


Way off base, and took the OP waaaaay too personally.

Matter of fact, your entire diatribe actually supports what the OP was trying to say, not detracts from it. If you don't see THAT then you are being ignorant, in this regard.

No one ever said, if you don't see things their way, you are being ignorant. Quite the opposite.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 10:03 AM
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I am actually suprised the owners have not shut down the entire UFO board due to abominal levels of pseudo-debunking aka disinformation. People whos only job is to go around ufo boards and troll the hell out of them and cause people to quit from frustration. I have been here a member for 5 years now, give or take a little, AND I DID QUIT THIS BOARD AFTER THE SECOND YEAR!

I only post in this thread to express my sheer outrage at what the staff have allowed to take place in the name of whatever. Thank god for some mainstream media outlets showing some sensitivity to play documentaries to educate people completly in the dark about ufos and aliens. Yes I do believe in both!




posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by luciddream
Denying Ignorance in my opinion is when someone else have an Opinion about a subject, which you may disagree but you STILL LISTEN(this is the point where you are denying ignorance) to the idea and think about it.

However, you can still refuse their idea, since it was an opinion of others to start with. Until large scale evidence is shown, it would still be an opinion. (this is the point where the person with the original idea will call others close minded because other did not agree with their idea).

"This image of Bigfoot is real, everyone who refuses it is just close minded" is ignorance in itself.


No! There are tons of material written about anything you can imagine. Those that care about something always find a way. I am strapped for money YET I still have spent about $100 over the years buying some nice bargains.

When you join boards just to irritate people that is called trolling!



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


What a thoughtful opening post ! S&F !!

Deny Ignorance. You may not realize it, Isaac, but what you mention in your op not only applies to UFO topics but to so many other subjects as well !! Truth really is "We don't have a fricklen clue!!" Many members, people, here and elsewhere have seen things, experienced things and still...

It's like we can never be sure 100% one way or another. Especially regarding UFO and Extraterrestrial subjects. Can we prove, without a single doubt, that we have been and/ or are being visited? No. we can't. Can we prove, without a single doubt, that we have never been and/or are never being visited? No. we can't. Can we prove, without a single doubt, that there is a UFO phenomenon that is of an extraterrestrial or other dimensional origin? No, we can't. Can we prove, without a doubt, that there isn't a UFO phenomenon of an extraterrestrial or other dimensional origin? No, we can't. Some time we can assume but that's about as far as it can get. Really.

It's frustrating, for more than seventy years, stories, rumours, headline news, newspaper clips, witnesses seeing or experiencing something (and even ourselves sometimes) and still, after all that time, if one is to be perfectly honest, the only answer we might get close to is "maybe...". Maybe there's something to it but it remains a mystery.

Just my little opinion..


Good thread !
edit on 2-1-2013 by SonoftheSun because: grammar



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by MisterMaster
 


There is plenty of evidence but it is being concealed by those with the evil agenda. The nephelim agenda. The reptillian agenda. The grey agenda. There is a pyramid structure to money and control of nations and people. Study all that!

One conspiracy proves the other conspiracy. it is a web of conspiracies!

You naively assume the government is not run by private central banks, who are masons, and who with their financial monopolies have a total control of nations.

It seems strange to me you are aware of so many alternative views and still can't make the puzzle match!



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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"I don't know" should be a very common response in the UFO threads, but mostly it tends to get your thoughts ignored. It appears that UFO threads are dominated from one side that always says, "This is the most conclusive evidence of a UFO ever" and another group that always says it's nonsense. Anyone offering up possibilities or alternate theories that fall somewhere between conclusive UFO proof and HOAX get ignored or worse, mocked for making an effort.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 01:12 PM
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So, you take a high-minded approach, one that conventional science has taken for over half a century of still wanting to say, "Gee, we just don't know about these UFO things."

Yeah. Science operates that way--correction, idealized scientific theory operates that way--but the situation with the UFO/ETs is not one of Science not wanting to take a stand on the issue, but that Science won’t and has never wanted to engag the issue and for good reason. And that is that controlling governments won’t allow it. Why? Because it is their secret to keep. Not one for Science to march to the forefront and pass judgment upon. The situation presented by the UFOs always has been an intelligence issue. That situation existed from Day One, from the very first suspicions that something strange was in our airways and has continued and must continue because our governments are not in direct control of that phenomena.

On your high path, you have the data of a thousand of UFO books under your brow. How many gave ample evidence for the phenomena being alien craft and how many were decisive, details accounts disproving that evidence? The answer, of course, is few. Why, because it can’t be done. First, you can’t prove a negative, and second the case is proven by the literally tons and tons of the evidence presented in all of those books. Let me paint the bigger picture, in short hand for you.

Everything that is going on in the world today by any group outside of the barbaric middle-east is driven by, and hidden and obscured in other language that accepts without question the understanding that the ETs of the UFOs are here and they are mandating changes in the world from to top to the bottom. This ranges from governments to economics to environmental issues and lastly, to the very existence of and future of humankind.

In every one of these general areas you can draw a line back to where a greater intelligence than mere humans sees where we must change. From a short, personal view on the situation, should we, as conscious creatures, be habitually concerned about war with other countries and what is on TV tonight or have some higher goals for ourselves?

I’ve said many times in my mini-triads on the internet that as an abductee, I’ve been dragged kicking and screaming to this acceptance. The fact that Obama is pushing the issues at great-neck speed because of his own ideologies increases my discomfort.

Most people see the UFO “situation” as nothing very complex then the simple questions of “Are the UFOs genuine ETs or not, and if they are, can we have some of their technology?” That position is as bad as ignoring all of the evidence and pretending that it all—still—is a mere philosophical argument. Better we start looking at the world through alien eyes and try to imagine what superior beings would want of us.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 01:28 PM
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The sentiment/message in the opening post is quickly nullified by the motive behind the thread.

Accepting alien visitations on earth as fact without logic or credible supporting evidence, is accepting ignorance and denying reality.....just as much as those unwilling to accept the possibility of extra-terrestrial life outside our solar system. The UFO community sucks and is full of morons...not because of the subject matter...but due to the blind faith people grasp on to in the absence of fact or rational....just like those people who belong to religious cults (Catholicism, Christianity, Islam...etc etc).

A thinking man, accepts possibilities but, demands proof.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 01:28 PM
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Oppose Ignorance

Doesn't that more clearly express the intended meaning?



ETA: As as joke, I could propose "Defy Ignorance," but that feels a bit too confrontational to me.
edit on 2-1-2013 by xpoq47 because: Additional comment



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective
The sentiment/message in the opening post is quickly nullified by the motive behind the thread.

Accepting alien visitations on earth as fact without logic or credible supporting evidence, is accepting ignorance and denying reality.....just as much as those unwilling to accept the possibility of extra-terrestrial life outside our solar system. The UFO community sucks and is full of morons...not because of the subject matter...but due to the blind faith people grasp on to in the absence of fact or rational....just like those people who belong to religious cults (Catholicism, Christianity, Islam...etc etc).

A thinking man, accepts possibilities but, demands proof.


What do you think angels and demons are? What do you think god and satan are?

Spiritualism and extra-terrestrials go hand-in-hand aka "the occult" sciences. Mainstream religion is the controlled version of spiritualism dominated by evil warlords that have existed throughout time. These warlords are rich too and view you as an expendable resource for their entertainment.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by xpoq47
Oppose Ignorance

Doesn't that more clearly express the intended meaning?



Well, if the intent behind that is to make sure ignorant people don't blindly believe in a UFO/Alien claim without first KNOWING there are facts supporting the claim...then yes, it is well stated. Otherwise, you are calling anyone who applies critical thinking and scrutiny ignorant...and that is simply incorrect.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

What do you think angels and demons are?


Angels and demons are imaginary mythical beings that people made up to try to give themselves comfort and rationalize phenomenon they could not explain in the absence of science/knowledge.


Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

What do you think god and satan are?


None of us know what G-d is but, I will tell you what I think.

I believe it is a natural occurring force/energy that is a part of our universe. It does not interfere with individual lives nor does it care what country you belong to or which alter you pray to. It does not appoint popes and it does not love dirty priests who finger little boys. It does not ask you to donate 10% of your paycheck to the church and it is not interested in what you wear on Sundays.

I don't believe in Satan.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective
The sentiment/message in the opening post is quickly nullified by the motive behind the thread.

Accepting alien visitations on earth as fact without logic or credible supporting evidence, is accepting ignorance and denying reality.....


Um, I have to ask: When you refer to "the motive behind the thread" and imply that my motive was to promote acceptance of ignorance and a denial of reality, on what are you basing your allegation of such a motive behind my thread????

Have you read my opening post and my other threads on ATS, such as the two below?
(1) Dogon Alien “Mystery” Demystified
(2) Debunked! The FBI alien bodies memo – A case study in the reinvention of the wheel

If you find any hint in my posts of a motive of seeking to promote ignorance and a denial of reality, please post it (or send me a U2U about it).



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by xpoq47
Oppose Ignorance

Doesn't that more clearly express the intended meaning?



It seems from the posts following yours, that even that proposed refinement of the existing motto can be misinterpreted by some as an attack on skeptics...



edit on 2-1-2013 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective
The sentiment/message in the opening post is quickly nullified by the motive behind the thread.

Accepting alien visitations on earth as fact without logic or credible supporting evidence, is accepting ignorance and denying reality.....


Um, I have to ask: When you refer to "the motive behind the thread" and imply that my motive was to promote acceptance of ignorance and a denial of reality, on what are you basing your allegation of such a motive behind my thread????

Have you read my opening post and my other threads on ATS, such as the two below?
(1) Dogon Alien “Mystery” Demystified
(2) Debunked! The FBI alien bodies memo – A case study in the reinvention of the wheel

If you find any hint in my posts of a motive of seeking to promote ignorance and a denial of reality, please post it (or send me a U2U about it).


I based it on the growing sentiment around here that somehow, skepticism or scrutinizing claims is somehow detrimental or "ruins" these forums. Perhaps that isn't you....which would be nice (And welcome) & I apologize if you felt I implied that.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by Aliensun
 


I am sorry but people have every right to know what is going on, otherwise we will never achieve a true democracy. What we have now is farce in poor taste. Rich people appointed by the reptilians to deceive, slaughter or otherwise to malign with.

Without absolute truth, or something close to it, big wars will not be out of the question nor ww3. We will never progress as a species, we will never colonise our own solar system(much less the universe), we will fail! It really is that simple. The government has no business deciding anything on its own. Most people don't even vote; why bother?! Third parties based on more relative truth are totally ignored by the msm.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective

Angels and demons are imaginary mythical beings that people made up to try to give themselves comfort and rationalize phenomenon they could not explain in the absence of science/knowledge.


Mythical yes. Imaginary no.



None of us know what G-d is but, I will tell you what I think.

I believe it is a natural occurring force/energy that is a part of our universe. It does not interfere with individual lives nor does it care what country you belong to or which alter you pray to. It does not appoint popes and it does not love dirty priests who finger little boys. It does not ask you to donate 10% of your paycheck to the church and it is not interested in what you wear on Sundays.

I don't believe in Satan.


That is why I reject religion and substitute it with spiritualism. The first is a bastardisation of the second.






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