December Poltergeist Case

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posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 01:46 AM
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Pretty decent evidence in my opinion. I really hope that the group you are involved with is not one of the "regular" types of paranormal investigation groups. What I mean is this: many, many groups simply go in to document the haunting by collecting evidence, and that is all they do. How does this help the client? The client did not need proof that ghosts were there, as they already knew that fact.

Most of the time they just want the thing to leave them and their families alone, so they can enjoy just living in their house without having to be afraid. Not all feel this way, but most do when it is their house that is haunted, as opposed to their workplace or other spot they do not actually live in. The majority of paranormal shows on television piss me off because they don't do anything to help the families. On Ghost Hunters all I have ever seen them do was tell the client that they didn't feel there was anything negative or malicious in the house. I mean really?

Not all negative spirits will come across that way at first, as they seem to be able to mask their true intentions. Some may not be dead people at all, and they simply masquerade as them. There is the show where the guy tries to remove objects from the house that may be causing the haunting, but I am not sure if that show is on the up and up as it were. I agree that objects can cause hauntings, but not all of them. They seem to solve every case in this manner, and usually it is some weird event or circumstance that leads them to their conclusions, which makes me doubt the show's authenticity a bit.

The only way, at least that I know of, to really help rid clients of their hauntings is to bring in a real psychic. Fake psychics who do cold readings are a dime a dozen, but a real psychic actually picks up on energy that is present in a location. If they are developed enough, they can actually see the spirits in their mind's eye, or in their mind, and hear them as well. Some psychics cannot see spirits, but can hear them. Some just feel them and cannot communicate, and it all depends on their personal development. An authentic psychic working with a group is imperative imo if the group actually wants to help people.

The psychic may not be able to end the haunting, but much of the time they can figure out why the haunting is occurring in the first place, which then should cast light on the options that are open for ridding the house of the spirit.




posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 03:50 AM
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Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
Pretty decent evidence in my opinion. I really hope that the group you are involved with is not one of the "regular" types of paranormal investigation groups. What I mean is this: many, many groups simply go in to document the haunting by collecting evidence, and that is all they do. How does this help the client? The client did not need proof that ghosts were there, as they already knew that fact.

Most of the time they just want the thing to leave them and their families alone, so they can enjoy just living in their house without having to be afraid. Not all feel this way, but most do when it is their house that is haunted, as opposed to their workplace or other spot they do not actually live in. The majority of paranormal shows on television piss me off because they don't do anything to help the families. On Ghost Hunters all I have ever seen them do was tell the client that they didn't feel there was anything negative or malicious in the house. I mean really?

Not all negative spirits will come across that way at first, as they seem to be able to mask their true intentions. Some may not be dead people at all, and they simply masquerade as them. There is the show where the guy tries to remove objects from the house that may be causing the haunting, but I am not sure if that show is on the up and up as it were. I agree that objects can cause hauntings, but not all of them. They seem to solve every case in this manner, and usually it is some weird event or circumstance that leads them to their conclusions, which makes me doubt the show's authenticity a bit.

The only way, at least that I know of, to really help rid clients of their hauntings is to bring in a real psychic. Fake psychics who do cold readings are a dime a dozen, but a real psychic actually picks up on energy that is present in a location. If they are developed enough, they can actually see the spirits in their mind's eye, or in their mind, and hear them as well. Some psychics cannot see spirits, but can hear them. Some just feel them and cannot communicate, and it all depends on their personal development. An authentic psychic working with a group is imperative imo if the group actually wants to help people.

The psychic may not be able to end the haunting, but much of the time they can figure out why the haunting is occurring in the first place, which then should cast light on the options that are open for ridding the house of the spirit.


Thank you for your post.

Please review my posts delineating the help we are providing the client.

I believe client is medium with PK and we are getting her in touch with others who can teach her to understand and live with her gift.

We are also attempting to hook client up with therapy. This is a complex case with many factors crossing sociological, psychological, and paranormal.

As a deep skeptic with an open mind I must reiterate, no matter if this is a casebook poltergeist, or if there is not even any paranormal aspects and was somehow all debunkable, the client is getting help and mentally improving.

The most important aspect is the clients well being.

Evidence or absence thereof is only a tool to judge which elements to use to best help the client.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 05:40 AM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


OK, I still haven't had a chance to watch the longer videos yet, but I just had to say that I am SO IMPRESSED by you and your group. You guys are doing exactly what ghost hunters should do - you are actually helping people that are dealing with, or believe they are dealing with, the paranormal in their lives. So many just want to document, their ultimate goal is to find proof that ghosts are real. That's an important pursuit too, and I enjoy seeing the fruits of their labor, but too often such groups forget that there are real (living) people suffering that are reaching out for help.

So, excellent work. Keep it up!!

OK, hopefully today I'll get to watch those longer videos. Looking forward to it!



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by VegHead
reply to post by pianopraze
 


OK, I still haven't had a chance to watch the longer videos yet, but I just had to say that I am SO IMPRESSED by you and your group. You guys are doing exactly what ghost hunters should do - you are actually helping people that are dealing with, or believe they are dealing with, the paranormal in their lives. So many just want to document, their ultimate goal is to find proof that ghosts are real. That's an important pursuit too, and I enjoy seeing the fruits of their labor, but too often such groups forget that there are real (living) people suffering that are reaching out for help.

So, excellent work. Keep it up!!

OK, hopefully today I'll get to watch those longer videos. Looking forward to it!



I think there is so much more going on than just ghosts. I'm not even sure we know enough to ask the right questions yet. So I am going out and following the evidence and will see where it leads.

I know there is SOMETHING going on. Twice I've been out; twice we've collected good evidence. Either I'm very lucky or there is more going on than most people would think.

I've already seen enough to personally know mainstream science is wrong and close minded.

Something is going on here, and it's not just hype from "reality" TV shows.

I don't know where I'll end up, but I will do my best to help people who are suffering. Their beliefs make it real to them so you have to start with their beliefs to help them no matter your own.

I don't know why, or what the answers are, or if we will even know in my lifetime. But people need help and If we can validate their realities with documentation so they don't feel insane, connect them with friends, family, and society and mental health help... we're doing something worth while.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 10:08 AM
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I finally had a chance to watch the interview video in its entirety. First, thank you again for sharing these. Second, my heart really goes out to your client. She's had so much tragedy in her life (losing a baby, abusive relationships, etc.) and to now be "tormented" by something she doesn't totally understand and cannot (yet) control is just really just heartbreaking to imagine.

My thoughts on the client interview...these are the notes I've taken while watching the first video:
She is dealing with what she describes as a "nervous condition" and have to wonder if her "condition" is the cause of this activity, or if it is caused by this activity. It's easy to imagine how one would feed into the other.

It's interesting that her partner doesn't see what she sees. He has heard the baby crying, though. But the activity seems clearly directed at HER and not him.

I thought it was really curious that she was being visited by a thing - devil child? - that she said looked just like something on a DVD that they had. Did you guys get to have a look at the DVD - just curious as to what it was.

This made me wonder if this vision was purely a manifestation of her own imagination. I suppose in the paranormal, anything is possible. Maybe a dark spirit saw the DVD in their home and choose to take the form of the image seen on the DVD cover because it knew it would frighten her? I've never heard of that happening specifically, and I'm more inclined to believe the devil child visions were a product of her fears and imagination. This doesn't mean everything she is experiencing is a product of her imagination, of course... but this one particular story struck me as questionable. What are your thoughts on this?

When they are talking about sounds that were coming from in or near the closet, the male partner mentions that for a moment he thought it was the woman next door. He mentions that the woman next door has a few kids. They later mention that they live in an apartment. It would seem that could certainly explain a lot of the noises - the voices, the bumps, the baby crying. I know they said the kids next door were older, but they could have a doll that makes a crying sound - or even a TV show or computer game. The possibilities for contamination when living in close proximity to a house with four (was it?) kids is pretty high.

The baby crying might also be an animal. Raccoons especially makes some pretty wicked noises.

Now, the obvious argument against these voices being simply contamination is the intelligent interaction this woman has gotten with them. For instance, when she was hearing the female voices she asked "why are you here, did you die here?" and the voice replied "No, I didn't die here." Now, if that was the next door neighbor, obviously she wouldn't respond this way. The response would be more like "WTF are you talking about, I'm your neighbor you weirdo."
Also, the woman (the client) says that she can sometimes see these women too and even describes what she sees them wearing.

Her 17-month old (sorry if I got the age wrong) pointing insistently at things that aren't apparently there is pretty interesting. I've heard that kids under 2 or 3 or so are especially able to see things that older children and adults cannot. In fact, someone had recently started a thread here on this subject. Having said that, we also have to be mindful that sometimes we can unknowingly reinforce behavior in a small child. They talk about him often point to the corner and going "huh? huh?" and he might do that not because he sees something but because he gets a reaction from adults when he does that. Just a possibility...

By the end of the interview, while I still don't know for sure what is going on it does seem possible that the activity is centered around this woman because she is a natural medium. This would explain why she can see things that other's cannot. I think some of what they are experiencing can be explained by neighbor noises, fear, and imagination - but not all of it. And some of it is pretty hair-raising. I'm so glad that this woman is (finally) being open and honest about what she has been experiencing.

I know Theresa Caputo (the Long Island Medium - I know I know!! LOL! I do love her, though) talks a lot about how she had crippling anxiety before she really learned and accepted that she is a medium. I think the "nervous condition" that your client is experiencing might be similar to what Caputo and other mediums have suffered.

Sorry to write so much. This kind of topic and awesome thread is the reason I joined ATS! Thank you for sharing your videos. I'll watch the other video as soon as I get a chance - it's hard to have an hour to myself.

I also want to commend the young woman in the video for being so brave to share her experiences and for being willing to allow her story to be public. I think her openness with her experiences will likely help others.
edit on 2-1-2013 by VegHead because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-1-2013 by VegHead because: typo



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 11:38 AM
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Before I share my skepticism with you all, please do know that I very well know what an evp is. These except for the third one is an evp. if it can't be explained rationally then I will admit it's an evp.
1st evp sounds like my iphone alert. I'm not joking google the audio sound of an iPhones alert.
2nd evp sounds could have come from anywhere, it's not a controlled environment for such experiments, so anyone can cause that sound to appear. Maybe a squeaky chair?
3rd evp is actually something, I just don't know what. It sounds like "Rich Oltan who ha" or something like that.
4th evp shouldn't even be considered, could be some squeaky noise from moving the camera.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by Jameliel
 


I have spoken with the client. Things have gotten better for her and her family. We will continue to provide suppport to this family for how ever long they request it.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by Zer0megAlpha
 


I welcome your opinion but there is no trickery involved here. There was no cell phone making any unexpected noises, the investigators sat in the floor while asking the questions with responses to the ghost meter so there was no squeak from a chair, all persons were account for so there was no environmental contamination either.
We are professionals and function with high work ethics.

Again thank you for your opinion because I know there are others out there that uses trickery to obtain what they call "evidence".



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 03:03 PM
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Good stuff, Piano. I just subbed you on YT.

It's definitely good to see that you're being skeptical and supportive.

I've never been keen on Hunters gathering data, and then hitting the bricks. If its a private person who is experiencing something that is even the least bit bothersome, a paranormal researcher has an obligation to assist that person in whatever way possible.

My personal policy is, was, and always will be, either "help" or don't do private investigations.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 03:31 PM
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What I hear is . . .

"I'm jealous of course . . . *sound* . . . "

Pretty distinct accent if that's what she's saying, bordering on a speech impediment

But that's what I hear



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by VegHead
 


Wow a lot to respond to.

Yes, hearts out to client who has had a hard life.

I am not a licensed mental health therapist but I am pretty certain she has PTSD from the abuse at a bare minimum. Like I said there are a lot of aspects to this case. We are getting her connected with a therapist, that for me a high priority and something I am personally working on.

Based on that - the first assumption must be this is all a mental health matter. However, after evidence review I am personally certain there is paranormal activity also.

Her dvd library had little if any horror videos in it. I even commented that on the tape.

I was also inclined to think it might be creation of her mind, yet we caught EVP of a "demonic" type entity (very very odd vocal qualities I've never heard before) and it was responding in Q&A so I tend to believe her now. Two therapists I have shown the video say "she believes she is telling the truth" based on review of interview also.

Neighbors are a good theory, except when the activity continues when they had no neighbors.

Also one woman was caught on EVP.

Also I caught the "baby" entity many many times both during day and night recordings on EVP. All had the same audio soundprints - it was on almost every tape we recorded. So that line of debunking does not align with evidence, although I agree many EVP's are animals that I have seen in the past i do not think it was an animal making these noises.

The women were "talking to her" even when we were there with her (thought we did not catch any womanly voices on tape other than woman crying during afternoon session). She either has mental health issues or is a real medium.

I think there are mental health and real paranormal issues combined. I think this is a complex case with no single answer. I do believe that her being a medium and psychokinetic would explain the situation. If there had been less paranormal activity I would have leaned more towards this being only a mental health issue. But all her claims were documented by our investigation.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 03:44 PM
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My suggestions for future sessions . . . obviously noise control on your EVP sessions, you seem to see the need for that already

But also, better mics for your interviews. The audio on the interview is pretty poor, and with her southern accent, I could only get about 5 minutes into it before calling it quits. There is really no excuse for poor audio during a staged interview.

$50 will buy a really decent mic for those types of settings, I suggest you convince the group to invest in one



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Zer0megAlpha
Before I share my skepticism with you all, please do know that I very well know what an evp is. These except for the third one is an evp. if it can't be explained rationally then I will admit it's an evp.
1st evp sounds like my iphone alert. I'm not joking google the audio sound of an iPhones alert.
2nd evp sounds could have come from anywhere, it's not a controlled environment for such experiments, so anyone can cause that sound to appear. Maybe a squeaky chair?
3rd evp is actually something, I just don't know what. It sounds like "Rich Oltan who ha" or something like that.
4th evp shouldn't even be considered, could be some squeaky noise from moving the camera.


The iphone alert went overtop the EVP (which starts right before the alert). I caught this same soundprint in several variations many many times on almost every tape, this is the loudest and clearest unfortunately.

Yes the environment is bad, but that is not a squeaky chair. There are two females in the house, the owner who is talking with anohter investigator in the living room and Jan who is asking the questions. You can hear the home owner talking at the same time as the laugh/chuckle and also tell the sound was not Jan. So it is an EVP.

4th EVP is exact soundprint as the 3rd and is very clear even though there is a lot of clicks and pops from sound recorder being picked up and turned off.. and it is also intelligently responding to Jan saying she is leaving. It is on exact same spectrum as 3rd and clear on the spectral analysis.

Yes the 3rd is the best, but you take what you get, I presented most of the ones I found. There were several more but the sound levels are very low so I did not bother including them. Almost all of them are the "baby" entity.

There is a huge loss of fidelity making a movie from the clips, and a further loss of fidelity uploading it to youtube. With the raw footage and a good pair of studio headphones these are even clearer.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by AllenBishop
Good stuff, Piano. I just subbed you on YT.

It's definitely good to see that you're being skeptical and supportive.

I've never been keen on Hunters gathering data, and then hitting the bricks. If its a private person who is experiencing something that is even the least bit bothersome, a paranormal researcher has an obligation to assist that person in whatever way possible.

My personal policy is, was, and always will be, either "help" or don't do private investigations.


Thank you.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by SecretGoldfish
What I hear is . . .

"I'm jealous of course . . . *sound* . . . "

Pretty distinct accent if that's what she's saying, bordering on a speech impediment

But that's what I hear



I heard "I'm jealous" up until now, but i was just scubbing through over and over in soundbooth and it almost sounds like "Angelis" or "Aunt Gelis hit the floor..... huh"

And as I was analyzing the movie in soundbooth i found a new EVP already in the footage i uploaded but i didn't hear until now... i saw it on the spectrum analysis and went and listened and found a new EVP! It is in the 4th EVP section. It is a odd male voice, but it is clearly there in both wave form and spectral analysis! I will make another movie and upload it tonight, but its there if you all want to go listen for it.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by SecretGoldfish
My suggestions for future sessions . . . obviously noise control on your EVP sessions, you seem to see the need for that already

But also, better mics for your interviews. The audio on the interview is pretty poor, and with her southern accent, I could only get about 5 minutes into it before calling it quits. There is really no excuse for poor audio during a staged interview.

$50 will buy a really decent mic for those types of settings, I suggest you convince the group to invest in one


Sometimes you roll with the equipment and situations you have. I am new tech guy and don't want to barge in with all the answers (and i don't have those), but I will keep politely suggesting we control noise better. The other investigators are not audiophiles like me


I just purchased a tascam 200 dollar digital audio recorder on christmas blowout for 50 from sweetwater.com!

Not everyone has all the money in the world. I am just getting into this and it was an impromptu interview. I just wanted to get caught up to speed and it turned into almost and hour long session. I don't yet have the equipment I would like but will keep plugging along with what we have.

I hope to eventually buy a 1-2000 dollar - probably canon ax10, xf100 etc) video camera with night vision, but until then we have to plug along with what we have.

Sorry if that or our Kentucky accents and inexpensive equipment offends. Are you being a little judgmental there?

Which is more important, the cost of the gear, or the mental help and relief of the client?

I know ATS brings the hard knocks, but we are not making any money off this, and have to foot the bill ourselves. We are not out to get on TV or make a living. Just help people and explore this fascinating subject.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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I hope to eventually buy a 1-2000 dollar - probably canon ax10, xf100 etc) video camera with night vision, but until then we have to plug along with what we have.

Sorry if that or our Kentucky accents and inexpensive equipment offends. Are you being a little judgmental there?

Which is more important, the cost of the gear, or the mental help and relief of the client?

I know ATS brings the hard knocks, but we are not making any money off this, and have to foot the bill ourselves. We are not out to get on TV or make a living. Just help people and explore this fascinating subject.


--- --- ---

Wait a minute . . . weren't YOU the one who just yesterday welcomed 'any and all reactions' . . ???

Now I'm being 'judgmental' for suggesting you should make efforts to increase the audio quality of future investigations?

For real?

Yes, I had a hard time getting through the accent . . . and NOT solely because of the accent itself (I lived in NC for 3 years and do understand 'southern') but primarily due to the poor audio quality of the interview. Are you so enamored of your gear that you can't take a minor suggestion of upgrading your mic w/o calling me judgmental?

My reaction was, and still is, that you need to upgrade your mic. Upgrading your recorder is fine, but if you're not efficiently picking up sub-audible sounds then it doesn't matter what recorder you use or what software you analyze with.

And what picks up sound?

The mic.

AND it will cost far far far less than that fancy 1-2,000 dollar Canon you're talking about.

It would also help tremendously with your staged interviews, making them much cleaner and clearer, which would be a great help to judgmental types such as myself who struggled with your current recording system.

With a group like yours who is on a budget but want to use EVP as a tool, a good mic is bottom line one of -- if not the -- most cost effective investments you can make.

re: "Aunt Ginny hits the floor . . . " could be, but it bears absolutely no relationship to the question that was posed, which was IIRC 'why are you in the baby's room' or something along those lines. Being jealous fits the question question much better, and could even explain the connection between the living mother who had lost a child (stillborn) and possibly a deceased mother who also lost a child.

But that's just my 'reaction' so take it as you please.


edit on 2-1-2013 by SecretGoldfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by pianopraze

The blinking one is called a ghost meter pro and i am not that familiar with it. The other researcher brought it.


They got ripped off1




posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 05:44 PM
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Here's a cheater's tip for good audio on a budget:

If you, or anyone on your team has an iPhone, the built in voice recorder does extremely well for a no-cost solution.

Both myself, and a research associate, have been able to capture EVPs with the Voice Memos app, and I've used it, to good effect, for interviewing witnesses.

It isn't a substitute for my Roland R-26, but I have used it, with great results. YMMV...

Most on-board camera microphones are a joke.

Also, and this is just one guy's opinion, but I agree with the previous poster on audio being the most important piece of equipment in the Hunter's toolbox.

EVPs, without a doubt, are the only consistent evidence I've been able to capture. To the point that I sold my FLIR unit to upgrade my audio capabilities.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 06:29 PM
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Just a couple of examples of what I'm talking about.

Both of these interviews were recorded with an iPhone 4S, and the on-board Voice Memos app.

In the first video, I had placed the iPhone on a table about 2-3 feet in front of the interview subjects.

In the second video, the phone was about 4 feet away from the interview subject. Unfortunately, video 2 is in the waste bin, because of the horrific digital noise in the picture.





Is the audio great?

No.

But in a pinch, and on a budget, you can use a smartphone's built in mic, combined with good placement, to catch some acceptable audio.
edit on 2-1-2013 by AllenBishop because: Clarification
edit on 2-1-2013 by AllenBishop because: (no reason given)





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