The single most important issue in ufology.

As another year ends the landscape of the ufo community seems to be in a depressing state.
Neverending arguments about decades old cases with important ones going under the radar.
Legends of the field reaching the latter stages of their careers with only a few faces to replace them.
It all seems a bit hopeless.
BUT........

From my point of view the most important fact is ignored.

If only ONE eyewitness, radar track, piece of trace evidence, photograph is correct then its game over the greatest story in the history of mankind.

Surely nobody can believe that EVERY piece of evidence is fraudulent.
It really is very simple if only one case out of the thousands in ufo history is the real deal thats good enough.

Happy New Year everyone.

I dont think that anyone truly believes that every single shred of evidence is fraudulent, that would just be ridiculous. There are many pieces of evidence that sinply can not be explained.

With that being said, until there is a piece of evidence that is 100% undeniable, we are at a standstill.

"under the radar" i see what you did there

I tend to agree, the compelling evidence is not the quality, its the sheer volume of similar reports spanning 50 years plus for "actual reports" and hundreds if not thousands of years of more vague reports.

However im still not sure, overall, if its all evidence of off world activity here or advanced and undocumented human technology.

One issue I have found is that the art of mainstream ridicule has ensured many decent witnesses are never taken as trustworthy, even highly qualified pilots.

Originally posted by CrashRetrieval

Surely nobody can believe that EVERY piece of evidence is fraudulent.

Never underestimate the pathology of motivated skeptics. It's so bad they don't deserve their self-awarded badges of skepticism. They are pseudo-skeptics.

I always thought the black knight satelite was the begining and possibly the end.
They came,they saw,they said sod that their crazy,we got too close,they left.
Job done

Read P Hills book. ex nasa guy etc

pdfcast.org...

The single most important issue in ufology is that the entire subject has become a laughing-stock because it appears there are no longer many significant voices policing all the utterly obvious nonsense that has overwhelmed the issue.

Just prove they exist?

The answer is glaringly obvious. I won't bother explaining it as i have tried that with no real effect. I will give you one word however. CHAOS!

reply to post by pacifier2012


Read P Hills book. ex nasa guy etc

pdfcast.org...


they exist. read

reply to post by CrashRetrieval


I would like to see UFOlogy (or whatever we are calling it), remain the primary focus of ATS, next to Ancient Civs, of course, which seem to be the bread and butter.

But I am afraid that if we don't switch tactics we are going to remain dead in the water.

We can't possibly allow ourselves, after all of this time, to be hung up on waiting for some single piece of evidence to 'just prove they exist'.

A new way of approaching the matter has been making itself clear, little by little, for me, it seemed to start here...

The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary and UFOs

The emphasis that these people place on the UFO phenomenon is not on nuts and bolts craft and evidence of same, it is on the social effects of the phenomenon and how it can be controlled, and ultimately on how we can be controlled through narratives and stories and the manipulation of our power to suspend our disbelief, individually and collectively.

www.geekosystem.com...

So with that in mind, let's us hear from the only guy in the bunch that had our best interests at heart, Jacques Vallée...

From: Messengers of Deception. 2008

"The social process caused by the belief in the [UFO] phenomenon takes the form of new sects, movements, and "contact" cults. Close observation of these cults shows that they are monitored and in some cases deliberately manipulated by occult groups, government organizations, and extremist political movements....

The group of people who will first manage to harness the fear of cosmic forces and the emotions surrounding UFO contact to a political purpose will be able to exert incredible spiritual blackmail.

I believe there is a very real UFO problem.

I have also come to believe that it is being manipulated for political ends.

And the data suggest that the manipulators may be human beings with a plan for social control.

Such plans have been made before, and have succeeded. History shows that having a cosmic mythology as part of such a plan is not always necessary. But it certainly helps.

Unfortunately, this is going to require that the whole community retool and get up to speed on stuff that they never thought they would have to study.

Stremor's TLDR software has more to do with what you need to know to keep up these days than searching for some missing link that will provide evidence.

On the hopeful side, surveys show that more and more people all over the world are starting to take notice and believe. Most Americans believe there's a cover up.

More people are on the look out. More cameras and videos are aimed and ready. More stuff is getting uploaded and documented. More people are talking about it.

And even if disagreement runs rampant, there's still the ongoing and increasing cataloging at sites like MUFON and AnonymousFO. This is as much as anybody can do — just keep recording & documenting. Let the evidence pile up.

Eventually, hopefully, despite the naysayers (or maybe because of them), there will be enough critical mass to tip it over. Besides, shady people behind the coverups are also aging and dying, if only out of stress.

It might help if UFOlogy gets over the ET hypothesis. I know its kinda hard when that's all Hollywood knows how to portray but UFOlogy really needs to re-boot all the way back to Jung.

Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky

Originally posted by BlueMule

It might help if UFOlogy gets over the ET hypothesis. I know its kinda hard when that's all Hollywood knows how to portray but...

UFOlogy really needs to re-boot all the way back to Jung.

Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky

Whoop, there it is!

2nd

reply to post by BlueMule

Never underestimate the pathology of motivated skeptics. It's so bad they don't deserve their self-awarded badges of skepticism. They are pseudo-skeptics.

What exactly is a "motivated skeptic"?.....I am a self confessed skeptic, but I have no motivation other than a desire to get to the bottom of any UFO story and I always start out skeptical, I find it's the best way to view the subject objectively........I find that here on ATS there are a great number of motivated believers, people that view a youtube video of a dot of light or a photograph of a bird/insect/plane and immediately claim that it is "irrefutable proof of alien life"!......and let's not beat around the bush, the term "UFO" when used on this site, and in general if we are to be honest, is invariably taken to mean "extra terrestrial".

So what exactly is the pathology of a motivated believer?.....because in all the years I've been here I've seen a hell of a lot!

I think you are confusing "pseudo-skepticism" with logic and common sense, which in my opinion are the two most important issues in ufology

Originally posted by BlueMule
It might help if UFOlogy gets over the ET hypothesis. I know its kinda hard when that's all Hollywood knows how to portray but UFOlogy really needs to re-boot all the way back to Jung.

Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky

edit on 31-12-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Jung 's explanation doesn't cut it, to put it bluntly. Even Jacques Vallee, the modern torch-bearer of the psychological theory, has basically abandoned the notion in favor of a bizarre but nonetheless much better explanation of the nature of the UFO phenomenon. Basically, there is already undeniable physical evidence directly associated with both UFO sightings as well as "abductions". On the ther hand there is undeniable evidence that some activity has a clearly psychological aspect ehich may or may not be caused by psychotronic technology.

Whatever we're dealing with, it is absolutely real, and interacting with us on several levels.

ETA - too difficult to post links on a mobile

Originally posted by Son of Will

Originally posted by BlueMule
It might help if UFOlogy gets over the ET hypothesis. I know its kinda hard when that's all Hollywood knows how to portray but UFOlogy really needs to re-boot all the way back to Jung.

Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky

edit on 31-12-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Jung 's explanation doesn't cut it, to put it bluntly. Even Jacques Vallee, the modern torch-bearer of the psychological theory, has basically abandoned the notion in favor of a bizarre but nonetheless much better explanation of the nature of the UFO phenomenon. Basically, there is already undeniable physical evidence directly associated with both UFO sightings as well as "abductions". On the ther hand there is undeniable evidence that some activity has a clearly psychological aspect ehich may or may not be caused by psychotronic technology.

Whatever we're dealing with, it is absolutely real, and interacting with us on several levels.

Yes, it does cut it. It's just easy to misunderstand. People have to actually READ Jung. That's not easy.

“Space-Age myth” does not imply that UFO sightings or encounters with angels, aliens, fairies, sprites, elves, or demons are fantasies. Rather, it suggests that some of these experiences may literally be psychophysical, blurring conventional boundaries between objective and subjective realities. Some may object that this proposal doesn’t account for the physical traces associated with some UFO reports, but this misinterprets what Jung and others have proposed. They suggest that the manifest world emerges from mind, that is, that mind shapes matter. Where have we heard this before?

Source: media.noetic.org...

Oh yes, this is an important point to make, which the flying saucer people are forever misunderstanding, and that is that saying the flying saucer is a psychic object does not mean it is not a physical object. Jung in Mysterium Coniunctionis is at great pains to say that the realm of the psychic and the realm of the physical meet in a strange kind of never-never land that we have yet to create the intellectual tools to explore. This is where the mystery of synchronicity is going to come to rest, the mystery of all kinds of paranormal activity on the part of human beings, and the mystery of the flying saucer.

Source: www.intuition.org...

The single most important issue in UFOlogy is the kooks.

You want this area to be taken seriously then the logical and rational believers need to help the skeptic get rid of these bug eyed idiots.

Like you, we skeptics would like some answers...but cannot get anywhere until these buffoons are taken care of and shunned.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
The single most important issue in UFOlogy is the kooks.

You want this area to be taken seriously then the logical and rational believers need to help the skeptic get rid of these bug eyed idiots.

Like you, we skeptics would like some answers...but cannot get anywhere until these buffoons are taken care of and shunned.

And there lies the crux of the matter

Although I don't agree that blind believers should be shunned.....I do think they should allow themselves to be more open to common sense and logic..... a dot of light filmed and put on youtube does not automatically mean aliens and a universal cover up by the mythical Powers That Be.....when looked at scientifically and logically.....aliens are well down on the list of probabilities!