Now the gun rights people want silencers for their weapons.

The British made a 'silencer' for their machine pistol called the 'STEN' all you could hear was the bolt moving forwards and backwards as it was fired. Although full auto fire soon burnt out the 'silencer'.

Silencers certainly do not work as they do in movies and video games! I suppose people will want bullet proof gas tanks and cars because shooting them in movies results in huge explosions... No spark no fire. Wouldn’t a crossbow be a better option if you wanted a quiet, efficient and high powered weapon?

reply to post by BlindBastards

Good point about the crossbow and I've thought more than once how fortunate we are that the average criminal has the creativity about their 'chosen profession' of a turnip. There is a problem and it brings one question....

How's follow-up 2nd and 3rd shot work if the first one didn't do it....and the target isn't a bale of hay?

Originally posted by BlindBastards
Wouldn’t a crossbow be a better option if you wanted a quiet, efficient and high powered weapon?

The problem with a crossbow is the range. If you are close enough to hit someone with a crossbow you are too close to make any effective clandestine/covert egress (you will be seen most likely) unless that person would be utterly alone. A crossbow is not completely silent.

The point of a suppressor (in a long range situation) is that sound travels slower than the round that is fired so that the target will go down prior to the report being heard by those around the target (security or witnesses) until it is too late. The resultant confusion will place the focus on the target rather than looking for the shooter allowing the team to either stay in place for another shot or to egress for extraction. In long range shooting say 800+ meters (sound travels at 1116 fps, which is slower than most match grade sniper ammunition travels) a suppressed weapon is not really even necessary as the round will hit the target before the report is heard. Even a .50 cal which has a huge and loud report and muzzle flash will not be heard before the target is hit at the ranges it is used.

A suppressed weapon only intensifies the effect and will be almost silent especially for those in the target area.

In close quarters, as I said before the point of a suppressor isn't for stealth but the advantage is gives the operators when they communicate with each other in protecting hearing. A suppressed assault weapon/SMG serves no other purpose than noise reduction primarily to benefit the shooter(s).

Crossbows have been tried in special operations at various times for many things with mixed or marginal results.

The only thing they were found to be consistently good for was in the removal of guard dogs (but only if they are free roaming without a handler) who are loosely roaming an area as a deterrent. Say in a large fenced area at a fixed site i.e. power plant, nuclear or otherwise.

A suppressed .22 at the same (or greater) range is actually just as useful and allows for quicker successive shots if needed. A crossbow is not something that reloads quickly and since it is not really all that useful for its size/weight for any other purpose it is not generally carried.

suppressors are legal on air rifles without any permits.
but there is a catch the suppressor can not come off the air rifle or come apart.

the BATF rules say silencers or parts of silencers are illegal on firearms. and there view is someone can take suppressor or suppressor parts from a air rifle and put them a firearm so they say that any airgun suppressor must not come off or apart.

reply to post by JBA2848

Now the gun rights people want silencers for their weapons

What are "gun rights people"?

Please define.

I make registered silencers as a hobby and find that they are a great asset to shooters due to lower noise and recoil.

Ranb

It also makes it a lot tougher to tell where the shooter is, especially in MOUT. Heh.

Even better if you use stock ammo instead of subsonic. The round will make a crack every time it passes a hard object, which sort of confuses people as to where the thing came from.

Instead of BANG, you get whop crack crack crack crack crack....

OTOH, it does reduce the range a touch and can tumble your round, unless the suppressor is very well made.

eta: if you just wanted a short to medium range near silent weapon that you could only get off one or two shots with, there were specialized .22 weapons for that purpose that were a LOT easier to wag around than a crossbow. Not really good for more than a few yards. But if you wanted to pop someone without a lot of possible tussle with a knife it would work ok. Say you wanted to nail someone in a bathroom in public. A crossbow is sort of tough to use in a building.

reply to post by JBA2848


First thing is first, it's probably been stated, but you can't "silence" a gun. It's a Noise Suppressor.

Second~

Lets give the mass killers a silencer so they can kill more before people realize what is happening. There would be no need to hide the noise by doing it at a movie theater during a gun scene. You could do it any where. Great idea idiots!!!

Really? Your sensationalizing, not everyone that owns guns are mass killers, and even if you banned SUPPRESSORS, that wouldn't stop anyone from making them or buying them illegally.

This whole thread is hogwash. Nice job~

Bedlam
OTOH, it does reduce the range a touch and can tumble your round, unless the suppressor is very well made.

A silencer does not reduce range unless it is integral to a ported barrel that reduces bullet speed or is made with wipes.

Ranb

reply to post by JBA2848

We already have silencers (surpressors) in Michigan. Legal and not really expensive.

Tasers are legal too...since 2012.

reply to post by JBA2848


Silencers arent illegal there just trying to get people to buy them last time i was at a range there were several people using silencers. No permits are required there is no federal law banning them all you have to do is make sure it has a tax stamp. So it would seem there trying to market their product to save shooters hearing smart idea since most people dont care if you hear there rifle.But go to the range and you can hear your ears ring even with ear plugs.

Ranb40

Bedlam
OTOH, it does reduce the range a touch and can tumble your round, unless the suppressor is very well made.

A silencer does not reduce range unless it is integral to a ported barrel that reduces bullet speed or is made with wipes.

Ranb

Our experience with them on sidearms is that they act as muzzle extensions and speed the round up a bit (except if they're designed to slow the round down with wipes), but on rifles they tend to reduce the muzzle velocity a touch and they increase the round to round muzzle velocity standard deviation, which makes your groups larger.

In medium range, it's not so bad. But some bullet weights tend to tumble in some rifling, which really makes the groups larger. Smaller rounds are worse.

eta: the last time I really used suppressors was maybe 1989, so maybe they've really improved them since.

Bedlam
It also makes it a lot tougher to tell where the shooter is, especially in MOUT. Heh.

Even better if you use stock ammo instead of subsonic. The round will make a crack every time it passes a hard object, which sort of confuses people as to where the thing came from.

Instead of BANG, you get whop crack crack crack crack crack....

OTOH, it does reduce the range a touch and can tumble your round, unless the suppressor is very well made.

eta: if you just wanted a short to medium range near silent weapon that you could only get off one or two shots with, there were specialized .22 weapons for that purpose that were a LOT easier to wag around than a crossbow. Not really good for more than a few yards. But if you wanted to pop someone without a lot of possible tussle with a knife it would work ok. Say you wanted to nail someone in a bathroom in public. A crossbow is sort of tough to use in a building.

edit on 27-12-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

I assume your talking about home made suppressors where they use cotton but real suppressors do not affect range or cause bullet to tumble it just revents the gas the bullet wont see a difference.

dragonridr
I assume your talking about home made suppressors where they use cotton but real suppressors do not affect range or cause bullet to tumble it just revents the gas the bullet wont see a difference.

No, they were military. The baffling tends to reflect the shock waves from the round, and they act differently as the suppressor heats up. So what you see is different hot to cold. Helical baffling tends to be worse about causing bullet tumble, imho.

I had a 1:9 twist .223 that was especially pissy about it. But then it was twitchy about bullet weight and powder, too. It was really accurate if you could make it happy.

eta:

also imho, having a helical baffle is a bit like having a barrel crown that's uneven. You can get asymmetric forces on the bullet as it leaves the barrel/baffle.

Bedlam
Our experience with them on sidearms is that they act as muzzle extensions and speed the round up a bit (except if they're designed to slow the round down with wipes),

This is known as suppressor boast and it is usually negligible.

Bedlambut on rifles they tend to reduce the muzzle velocity a touch and they increase the round to round muzzle velocity standard deviation, which makes your groups larger.

Why is this happening? It has not happened on my rifles, doesn't matter if they are 22lr, 223, 308 or 338 ultra mag, the silencer reduces recoil, noise and changes point of impact. No effect on accuracy at all.

BedlamIn medium range, it's not so bad. But some bullet weights tend to tumble in some rifling, which really makes the groups larger. Smaller rounds are worse.

Tumbling is caused by inadequate stability which is usually a function of twist. Whether or not you have a silencer attached is meaningless unless the bullet yaws enough to cause a baffle strike

Ranb

Bedlam

Ranb40

Bedlam
OTOH, it does reduce the range a touch and can tumble your round, unless the suppressor is very well made.

A silencer does not reduce range unless it is integral to a ported barrel that reduces bullet speed or is made with wipes.

Ranb

Our experience with them on sidearms is that they act as muzzle extensions and speed the round up a bit (except if they're designed to slow the round down with wipes), but on rifles they tend to reduce the muzzle velocity a touch and they increase the round to round muzzle velocity standard deviation, which makes your groups larger.

In medium range, it's not so bad. But some bullet weights tend to tumble in some rifling, which really makes the groups larger. Smaller rounds are worse.

eta: the last time I really used suppressors was maybe 1989, so maybe they've really improved them since.

edit on 27-12-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

I have one for a glock and its actually improves accuracy im assuming it lengthens the barrel. Now alot of rifles will use wipes so you have to be careful because extended barrel lengths will increase the speed or a round and this could lead to accuracy problems on 22s for example such a light round they tend to float upward if the velocity is to high. A round should never tumble if it does get rid of that suppressor its damaged or poorly made.

Ranb40
Why is this happening? It has not happened on my rifles, doesn't matter if they are 22lr, 223, 308 or 338 ultra mag, the silencer reduces recoil, noise and changes point of impact. No effect on accuracy at all.

You used a chronometer and gotten numbers on your round velocities with and without the suppressor? Ours caused a definite spread.

Its legal in Texas to have a silencer for your weapon. You need a 70 dollar permit. Happened last year. I for one wish it was required. Where I live they are constantly shooting and its annoying.

reply to post by JBA2848


"Oh no! Not silencers!" - Said every idiot in chorus. You do realize that putting together an illegal silencer isn't hard right? And can be done with whatever you have in your home currently, right? I'm in Norway, and there's no real laws against silencers here. Gun owners can go with their firearms license to the local police and say they need a silencer because they practice shooting or hunting close to homes. That in itself is reason enough to be able to own a silencer here.

Also, let's not forget a silencer isn't silent. It only reduces noise, not eliminate it.