60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told but minister still says controversial end-of

reply to post by Maxmars
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They call this Hospice here in the USA. This sickens me period!! They use Morphine, and this slows breathing down to the point of death. I consider this Murder!!

reply to post by Apollo7


What would you propose as an alternative. When the dying process has begun, there is very little you can do to reverse it. Morphine just eases the pain caused by your organs shutting down, making the process more bearable and dignified. The alternative is to watch the patient die painfully.

This post reminded me of how confused i was when my dad was passing in 2011, To give you guys a understanding my dad was a nice guy he started to get a hole in his tongue the doctors couldn't figure out what it was then they told him it was cancer but the cancer has already went through his bones in his jaw.
so they removed his jaw and tongue.
they took a bone from his leg and some muscle and remade his tongue and his jaw with it.
My dad was in alot of pain after this for awhile, only me and a few friends could understand him, he couldn't speak correctly.
a few months later, He was doing pretty decent alot of energy, he couldn't eat anything solid i felt so bad for him he would cry when he would smell something good,
he had the surgery in oct. of 2010

In august of 2011,
we took him into the hospital because he had malnutrition other than that he was talking being happy and walking fine.
the doctors wanted to admit him in to stay for a few days, while he was in there they told him he was terminally ill and would only have 6-18 months to live they said he had a really odd spot on his lungs something really small which is stupid they did some test and said it was nothing, He was wide awake i went home and came back the next day and he was asleep i asked why is he asleep the nurse said o hes sedated.... i said why? she said because the doctor said he would be more comfortable.. i thought maybe it was just today or something he would be sedated from some exam or something. so i came back the next day it was the same thing i asked the doctor in the front desk why is he sedated and she told me he wasn't that hes just asleep and wont wake up from the spot on his lungs not giving him enough oxygen i was thinking wtf?
i stayed for a bit and left the next day i came up there he was awake we talked he seemed very week and tired which was odd how a week before he was fine.
the next day which was a Thursday i came up there and he was asleep again i didn't bother asking the nurse or doctor i stayed for a bit and went home.

On Friday i get a call from the doctor hi its so and so from the hospital your dads condition is getting worse he is getting close to letting go we can tell he is by his breathing all the patients that do this usually don't hang around for much longer. so i sped up there but it was too late i couldn't be by his side he passed away a few min. before i got there so i gave him a hug and stayed by his side for a good 3 hours my family and friends came up there to say good bye.

I think its very odd how within 1 week he went from energetic and happy to dead....

When patients are told they are terminal the hospitals don't seem to take care of them anymore they let him die the one day my dad was awake that week he told me he was in alot of pain they weren't giving him any pain medicine i yelled at the nurses to give him something but they wouldn't they said he was getting enough my dad takes pain meds for his back he has a high tolerance they would take his medicine away and give him a lower dose...
It seemed odd how a month later that hospital went under investigation for mistreating their patients but nothing was found wrong.
I thought i would share this story with you guys this post related to me so much they told him he had 6-18 months not 5 days this has always bothered me since the day it happened.


Please excuse my punctuation im not very good at writing long posts i don't do it very often.

So the truth is right here for everyone to see , yet the nation still refuses to open there eyes and see that the all controlling Government rules all . From Cradle to the Grave we are now totally controlled by the puppeteers ..May God help us all

reply to post by The X


I am sorry for your loss.

To me, as to many of you, this practice is abhorrent, but in this day and age is seen as "normal". Many will claim this is not so but this is viewed as part of a"liberal society" these days...

That's PART of what a National Healthcare system brings to nations, and it will get worse trust me on this one. I was born in a country, Cuba, where these practices, and worse ones have been done for over 60 years.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


For those who are dieing and have no paths left yes but not those who are being drugged out because the FED doesnt want to pay for the treatment to save them ...

Originally posted by olaru12

Contrast "pathway" with the US system of keeping you alive and on life support, even though terminal, so the drug companies, hospitals, insurance companies, doctors can continue to reap the profits in a "for profit" medical system.

Getting someone into hospice care so they can die with dignity is an arduous task.

So, murdering a person like a stray dog is your answer?...

YOU might want to die this way, but what gives YOU or anyone else the right to claim it should happen to everyone else without their consent?...

This is part of the problem with a so called "liberal society"... Some seem to think they have the right to dictate how other people should live and die...

These same people think the government should be the one making the decisions for the people on how to live or die... That's what "a libeal society" has been bringing to the world... So enjoy it... Soon enough a practice that you do not agree with will be FORCED upon you as well. Don't think that just because you have agreed so far with what the global elites had been brainwashing you into believing and wanting that you are going to be exempt from their practices of FORCING people to do things against their will...

Enjoy your "liberal society"... You have been DEMANDING for it and wanting to FORCE it upon others...

Oh and btw... To all those "liberals" and others in the U.S. and around the world who were claiming having this sort of practice in the U.S. is not a "death panel", what do you have to say now?...

Or are you going to make up some other excuse to accept this, and for what seems to be your goal to FORCE your ideologies on those who do not agree with them?...

reply to post by Apollo7


The United States arrested a man once and sent him to prison for trying to help people who were in pain and dieing, If my memory serves me correctly, his name was Dr. Kavorkian.........................................Now look at what we have happening....

reply to post by Maxmars


I am not surprised, after all the NAZI's wouldn't of had the financial ability to overthrow the German Republic if it wasn't for the British crown and their agents. Your talking about a people that starved hundreds of millions of people from India to death so bread prices in London would be cheaper.

A people who intentionally poisoned the Gulf, and are jacking up the price of oil in America so they can rape us of our nations oil.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Oh and btw... To all those "liberals" and others in the U.S. and around the world who were claiming having this sort of practice in the U.S. is not a "death panel", what do you have to say now?...

Or are you going to make up some other excuse to accept this, and for what seems to be your goal to FORCE your ideologies on those who do not agree with them?...

edit on 1-1-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

You have to remember that leftists are usually psychopaths/sociopaths, and deep down inside they want to butcher millions of people. That is why lefties want to take away peoples guns and why lefties want to tax people into starvation because they want to see people die.

My mother was put on 'pathway' here in the UK. She died in January 2012, at the age of 75, after being morphined to death. It's a complex story to tell, because I cannot prove that she was, but all I am reading points to 'pathway' treatment.

Late November 2011, both my brother and I noticed a small deterioration in our mother's health. She never smoked, and led a very active life. Fiercely independent, sharp as nail in mind and very intelligent. She lived alone, and preferred to do so, while mu brother and I visited once a week at different times, just to make sure she was okay.

Third week of November, my brother called to see her and found her on the floor. He called me, and I went to see her. We callled an ambulance (which might as well have been a hearse). She was very weak, looking very frail (which for both my brother and I was distressing to see). Her blood pressure was very low, and she could not stand on her own. Right there and then we knew her days of independent living had gone...I also believe she knew it as well.

They took to hospital for observation and tests. They kept her in because they said they had found certain chemical signatures they were not happy with, and further tests were required. We visited every other day, but for the next 6 weeks, my brother and I watched our mother fade away into a very weak, very gaunt, thin, skeletal shell. She had been diagnosed with onset dementia, so as she faded, her memories became the reality. She began to relive snapshots of her life as if they were reality. She was fading and she was going.

Her brain had ceased receiving or processing hunger signals (a natural consequence of old age dying preparation), so she did not eat, but this probably began a week or two before she went into hospital. About the 5th week in hospital, we were told that ultrasound scans had detected multiple lumps in her stomach and colon, and that it was inoperable lymphoma cancers. They said they wanted to put her on mild chemotherapy, but I decried against this, as I saw no point in artificially poisoning her while it wasn't going to nothing more than add further toxins into her blood stream, and in her weak state would only compound her pain.

On Sunday evening, January 3rd, 2012, I received a call from my brother to get to the hospital as our mother had taken a turn for the worse. It ws 21-30 when I got to the hospital, shortly after, mu brother arrived. How the hospital knew my mother had not long to live I don't know? We sat by her bedside for two and a half hours. She looked very comfortable, sleeping soundly, attached to saline drip and a heart monitor and also a brething apparatus, even though she was breathing on her own.

About 23-15, the nurse asked if she could change my mother's position, and give her a shot of morphine, because according to her, my mother looked in pain...I don't know how she knew this or how she could tell? My brother and I went outside for 10 minutes and returned. Back at our mother's bedside, she was very uncomfortable, her breathing was laboured and struggling. The nurses had done something which totally aggravated my mother's rest, but after about 15 mins, our mother seemed to settle down a little, but her breathing remained a fight for breath in staggered and staccato inhales and exhales. On occassion she would seem to exhale and pause for a few seconds before inhaling again. A couple of times both my brother and I stood up from our seats thinking she had died, only for her to regain the struggle for breath.

At 01-50, Monday, January 4th, 2012, our mother took her last breath. When we finally left the hospital at 3am, I had mixed feelings going through me. I could not shake the intuitive feeling that my mother had been euthansed. She died the same way a killer dies with lethal injection. Neither my brother or I were consulted or asked permission for this action, the hospital took it upon itself to do it, and I cannot prove it, even though it all transpired before our own eyes. At the time, I wasn't even aware of the 'pathway' scheme. As far as I was concerned, it was illegal to euthanse in the UK as there was/is no law that allows it? So technically, the hospital murdered my mother on state-sanction approval.

It doesn't matter how noble and caring the intentions, death is not their's to grant, that decision must always remain with the family, and they must have the full unreserved information at hand in order to make any decision.

Now it seems, 'Pathway' was in use quietly all the time, and because of that, it helps prepare people to accept it as a noble and caring option. Didn't Hitler nobly and caringly despatch hundreds of thousands of people during the early 1930s, such as the disabled and mentally weak and down-syndromes? Is this what we have come to now?

The hospital could induce terminal symptoms and no one would be the wiser. We are basically accepting state-sanctioned euthanasia just so our loved ones won't suffer.

Originally posted by korathin
reply to post by Maxmars

 

I am not surprised, after all the NAZI's wouldn't of had the financial ability to overthrow the German Republic if it wasn't for the British crown and their agents. Your talking about a people that starved hundreds of millions of people from India to death so bread prices in London would be cheaper.

A people who intentionally poisoned the Gulf, and are jacking up the price of oil in America so they can rape us of our nations oil.

I do not harbor any emotional baggage regarding the way humans seek to exploit one another (nor how they allow themselves to be exploited.) Those most "honorable" men in our own history includes many who, while preoccupied with their own agenda, simply looked the other way.... out of elitist loyalty. Evil does not thrive without participation, tacit, or otherwise.

If we remove that angst from the argument; we can comprehend that no one "quasi-empire" (notional or otherwise) is innocent of this inhuman abuse of trust - (truthfully, ALL have failed that test of human society.)

We are then left with an argument that revolves about "who" did "what," without reliving those barbaric old strategies that have already failed them...

As an unapologetic conspiracy theorist, I wonder if we may be observing the theater of the past. And follow it you must, if only to see who the puppeteer is....

This idea of the measure of human life in terms of 'economy' is the dangerous ground.upon which we are treading. It is only "real" because someone "says so." I am not saying there is a magical Utopia where money isn't necessary, but I know that calculating "due process" for the human end-of-life experience, renders us no closer to such a concept.

"Scientific" Health-Care, in it's current 'for-profit' corporate state, is intruding on a deeply personal and spiritually relevant domain. When they have "solutions" they should be involved, not to decide when it's "over"... not just as a matter of course... to be undertaken without the consent of the patient. I was taught to consider that "giving up." I need no help... giving up.

Originally posted by DOLCOTT
reply to post by olaru12

 

I am sure that now OBAMACARE is in effect it is only a matter of time before the "Board" determines what, when and how long you receive treatment.

You realize that "obamacare" is not a national, government-controlled healthcare plan, right? It is little more than a requirement to have some form of health insurance, so that the rest of us don't have to pay for the unisured who like to visit the ER for free every time they get a sniffle. It's a crappy, overly'expensive healthcare system in the US, but it is most certainly not a national healthcare plan like the UK has (which, by the way, is NOT your only option for health coverage in the UK.)

You're not alone though, I would say at least 50% of the US population, and mainly it's the people who are upset about it, believe that is what "ObamaCare" is. You would think if something upset people so greatly, they would take a minute to research it. Instead, they just blindly believe what forwarded emails and scare-tactic mouthpieces tell them to believe.

I was/am on a death pathway in NZ .
In 2006 I had an accident, in New Zealand you have to pay "the corporation" insurance premiums so I am "covered" by ACC( insurance), and as soon as ACC cover my serious accident they then remove me from ICU after 4 days.They take out all my life support, monitors , don't feed me or provide water. I survive this so then after two weeks they take me from the hospital without consent while I am in an critical condition.
They refused to even fund three months traction care( in NZ its only about $1100 per day) and they refused to fund palliative care. I was not suppose to survive so I was entitled to palliative care right.
The Accident Compensation Corporation is supported by the NZ govt in its witholding of acute medical care, acute treatments and its on going criminal negligence and assault and battery.
Life is worth nothing to these people, its a dark age when they have successfully instigated and sold a model of a human being as just an economic unit to doctors and other healthcare providers.
But on a positive note without the whole experience I would have continued on a path I am no longer on.
The fight for the right to live continues and so does the fight against the death pathway and it is fighting the whole NZ govt, acc,public hospital, health and disability commissioner ,IRD, and state sectors.
I have won and lost at the same time.
I would like to change the minds of those that think they can and should harm others that are significantly disadvantaged. They think they can do this harm to patients when they are well paid to do the very opposite, and the public do not know what they are doing .
When hospital staff force patient walk with spinal fractures to try to kill them, thats our "healthcare" by the insurance model.

I really wish people would stand up to the goverments but everyone that trys to start gets killed or accused of something makes me wonder if we will ever have this world back to normal

My father just went through this.

He was admitted to so called pallative care WARD D at Casey Hospital, Berwick Australia (Southern Health).

They were total callous bastards who did nothing to help him but in fact the opposite.

State sanctioned murder.

I had a stint under this corrupt, incompetant so called health system & they almost killed me and have left me with a permanent injury/disability.

The Dr's and so called Professor's, specialists are all either incompetant or feeding at the trough.

90% of the staff, nurses etc are also incompetant and un-caring.

If you wanna die quick or end up worse than you went in then the Southern Health system in Melbourne's South East is the place to go.

I'm gonna move interstate soon as I am paranoid if I get crook again I'd have no choice but to put myself at the mercy of these nitwitts and murderers.

BEWARE !!!!

reply to post by innersollus


I am and I am glad I am for all of those on death pathway that can't say" What you are doing to me is criminal and evil I don't consent and I will never consent".
When prince charles ...
"In a heartfelt plea, he said medical schools should try to foster a climate of care and compassion among doctors.
Charles's comments follow a series of reports of appalling treatment by NHS staff, including dying patients left screaming for water.
He called on doctors and nurses to heed what patients say so they can develop the 'healing empathy' so badly needed."sott

reply to post by BDBinc

Sorry I didn't finish that thought, when prince charles starts notifying the public of a lack of empathy in doctors and nurses its really pretty grim.
In NZ medical staff get $ bonuses now for witholding patient's medical care.
The insurance corp(ACC) in NZ has a financial link with all the NZ healthcare providers, the health and disability commissioner makes sure NZ health providers harm their patients, take their cash, shut up (and bark like a dog).

reply to post by olaru12

Getting someone into hospice care so they can die with dignity is an arduous task.

since when? I use to work for a hospice company, it only takes a phone call initiated by the family members, sometimes even a referall to get the ball rolling........

Anyone who says its hard to get hospice involved is either lying or downright misinformed..........


In contrast............this whole thing across the pond is what Americans were screaming about.......this IS the death panel.........

Cant wait for Obama Care.......yay!