60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told but minister still says controversial end-of

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posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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Absolutely sickening. At the risk of using a bit of hyperbole, I wonder if this "Care Pathway" would be used on a member of the royal family? Or perhaps an ex prime minister who seems to be in and out of hospital with alarming regularity? NO. Why? Because this is designed purely, PURELY, to save money and hasten the demise of those deemed "no longer profitable." This is for the plebs and proles of UK Inc©.

And for an MP (Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt) to describe what is essentially legalised euthanasia without consent (normally referred to as "murder" in most other countries) as, "A fantastic step forward," simply beggars belief.

The line between what my grandfather fought against from 1939 to 1945 and what this country is becoming is getting increasingly blurry.

How much longer before we sit back while the disabled are put on some other "Care Pathway."

What a sickening and abhorrent government we have infected ourselves with.




posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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Sounds like some (just some) of the hospice centers here. And they were around and doing this way before Obamacare too.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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I don't agree with the method but the concept has merit.

If I was terminally ill and had no chance of survival and was faced with huge amounts of money to keep me alive for a bit longer, I would rather have the choice to live or to die.

A vaporisation chamber would be the go. Instantaneous and painfree. Leaves no mess too.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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So...if I am to understand correctly....death by, what is essentially neglect is ok. Yet death by choice is not?

I may be missing something here...but. Wow. Just wow. And again another post I am drawn to happens to be taking place (or referenced to) within the city I live in.
edit on 31-12-2012 by DoomDoomDoomy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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Let's just Murder them -

Jeremy Hunt last night claimed the pathway was a ‘fantastic step forward’.


Isn't that really what we are talking about here????





Up to 60,000 patients die on the Liverpool Care Pathway each year without giving their consent, shocking figures revealed yesterday.



A third of families are also kept in the dark when doctors withdraw lifesaving treatment from loved ones.


I find this just "UN'freaking'BELIEVABLE!!!



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by ItDepends
 


It is pretty crazy really.

People should be outraged at this, why aren't they?



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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Yawn....

Once more, the Daily Mail and it's totally misinformed drivel about the LCP is being used by right-wing yanks as some sort of evidence against national healthcare...

It's getting boring guys. None of you have any idea what you're talking about.

EDIT: Just to clear one thing up, the Government has zero input into clinical decisions made by consultants in each of the NHS trusts. But then, if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know this.
edit on 31/12/12 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by magma
reply to post by ItDepends
 


It is pretty crazy really.

People should be outraged at this, why aren't they?


Despite the fact that I am absolutely incredulous with regards to what to think to this....and despite the fact that a majority of people in the UK usually don't give a # about anything....this is a major important story. If this has not been picked up by the media within the next few days then I'm gonna be an absolute loss as to what light I should put ourselves in...and what light I should view our media & society in.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by MeesterB
I'm torn on this story.

At first, I'm appalled. Then, I start to think about it, and we can't forget that death happens in our care-bear society. We would all like to think that people with proper medical care can overcome death and live happy lives, but it just isn't the case. Sure, proper medical care can keep the body alive for a long, long time after they should've died, but to what end? That they are a vegetable that needs daily cleaning for a few months before they pass? That they are in pain and look forward to death for the last few months they have?
I hate to bring cost into this, but sometimes you have to wonder if it is right to saddle the living with debt so that the dying can have an abysmal quality of life for a short time.

Sure, that's not always the case for terminal illnesses, but I'm also not assuming that the "death panel" that makes theses decisions are doing it in a heartless, calculated way. Maybe I'm wrong on that and there should be oversight, but still.


I agree with your sentiments, but that is not what is happening here.

To withdraw expensive medication and treatments to allow the Patient to die is one thing.

To sedate a person and withdraw water and food is simply murder. The only benefit is to free the bed up for the next person. This is a direct reaction to the Baby Boomers old age and the costs involved.

P



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by pheonix358
To sedate a person and withdraw water and food is simply murder. The only benefit is to free the bed up for the next person. This is a direct reaction to the Baby Boomers old age and the costs involved.



So why then, and this may be a bit of a digression, is assisted suicide considered such a taboo if these kind of things happen? (not directing that question at what you have said, just pointing out an inconsistency) .



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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This sounds horrific, because it is without spin. Decisions are made all the time that take peoples lives based on economics, it's called war. The main objection I have is the lack of consent/participation by the patient and their families. I also am not fond of those with vested interest, the insurance companies making the decisions. I am not against euthanasia as I have seen many people suffer needlessly and for a prolonged period. I am not sure Care Pathways are the answer.

Here in the USA we have advanced directives in which you yourself decide what kind of end of life care you want or when to pull the plug. I am not saying it is always followed as I have seen it violated in both directions, still it does give you a chance at self determination.

What I also find ironic is that if you wish to pull your own plug, the state and hospitals will fight you tooth and nail in many cases. So it boils down to nobody wants you to live, but who pulls the plug is what really matters.

I think it is very important we have these kinds of threads. We need to see who we are, without colored glasses.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Yawn....

Once more, the Daily Mail and it's totally misinformed drivel about the LCP is being used by right-wing yanks as some sort of evidence against national healthcare...

It's getting boring guys. None of you have any idea what you're talking about.

EDIT: Just to clear one thing up, the Government has zero input into clinical decisions made by consultants in each of the NHS trusts. But then, if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know this.
edit on 31/12/12 by stumason because: (no reason given)


Glad you think this is so glib!! It's your media reporting it
And, there does not seem to be any rebuttal from any other credible source in the UK. Granted, I just read what the OP posted and did read his links, attachments and from what I can tell, based upon what was provided, patients are being removed from life-support systems without their consent or knowledge. And, a great majority of the families of these patients were never notified or given options!!
I would gather to say, most British would be Bloody outraged, doubt there would be too many yawns, unless of course you are one of the gods making the decision to pull the plug on these poor people.


What a disgrace!!



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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Have you guys seen Michael Moore's documentary 'Sicko'? America's insurance companies deny us necessary treatment all the time to save money. They just point out some vague fine print or call it a pre-existing condition. At that point rich people get medical care, poor people die.

How many people die in America while in the care of our current medical system? I don't know the numbers but I bet it's just as staggering as that horrifying article.

Americans are just euthanized by the fine print in their health insurance.

edit on 31-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)
edit on 31-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Yawn....

Once more, the Daily Mail and it's totally misinformed drivel about the LCP is being used by right-wing yanks as some sort of evidence against national healthcare...

It's getting boring guys. None of you have any idea what you're talking about.

EDIT: Just to clear one thing up, the Government has zero input into clinical decisions made by consultants in each of the NHS trusts. But then, if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know this.
edit on 31/12/12 by stumason because: (no reason given)


So you are saying that the story is fabricated?

Or you just are in denial of the truth?

Can you provide some evidence to say that the news item is not true

or is your original post a knee jerk reaction?



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by PrincessTofu
 


I understand your point. However, no, I have not seen Sicko's, err I mean Mr. Moore's documentary. I honestly have to say, based upon seeing him, reading things that he has said on other topics, that I have no belief in his lies and exaggerations of the truth....just to make mon$y and further his agenda.

Whooa! I just had to get that out. I am sure there are significant problems in the American Medical system. Although from a medical/medicinal/health care system, it is considered the best in the world. Hence all of the overseas Dictators, Kings, Wealthy foreigners coming here for medical care. (although off-topic somewhat, and I am not here to defend America's medical system - it needs big improvements)

With that said, I am unaware of any significant complaints being made where patients were pulled off of life-support systems without either they themselves and/or their close family or guardians weren't at least given the courtesy of the options. I am not saying that it hasn't happened, I just have never heard of it happening, if it did, I would be disgusted. And, certainly, what is happening in Britain is out in the open and is Murder by any other terms, let's be honest.

On your point regarding insurance companies. I completely agree with you. No doubt many people, those less financially caplable and even those that are to some degree (middle class), have had medical procedures, medicine, and other restrictions regarding there well-care neglected. I simply don't know, but, agreed, that is deplorable when it happens. Peace!!



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by ItDepends
 


Thank you for responding to what I posted so respectfully. We all come here with open minds so it wouldn't hurt if you saw that movie just to point out its flaws.

I personally had an elderly great uncle that was being treated for lung cancer and his insurance eventually found a loophole and cut their ties because they claimed his lung cancer may have been caused by the 3 months that he worked in a coal mine when he was in his 20's. He wasn't insured by them at the time so they found a way to not cover it.. of course, they hadn't existed at the time and were perfectly willing to accept and not refund 30 years of his dues while he had them before he was diagnosed.

They're pretty slimy.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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I enjoy living, and hope I have a few more years. The thing that must be remembered is the we start dieing the day we are born, no one wants to die, or a loved one to die, but it is a fact of life. I have personally been involved in watching 4 people reach the end of life, so am not a virgin in this conversation. 80% of the medicare (care for our elderly) dollars are spent in end of life (the last 60 days) care. I think we could provide more meaningful care for the healthy younger ones with those dollars, but that is just my humble opinion.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by PrincessTofu
 


I am very, very sorry to hear about the circumstances regarding your uncle. Slimy just dosen't cover it. B$stard$ is still not descriptive enough. I have heard about these 'pre-conditions' not being covered and the poor souls are given no alternative but to die. I obviously find this disgraceful. Perhaps I will find some time over the Holidays to view the film by Mr. Moore, no harm in that. Thank you.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by olaru12
reply to post by Maxmars
 


Contrast "pathway" with the US system of keeping you alive and on life support, even though terminal, so the drug companies, hospitals, insurance companies, doctors can continue to reap the profits in a "for profit" medical system.

Getting someone into hospice care so they can die with dignity is an arduous task.


edit on 31-12-2012 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)


Yes but that will all change under the new and improved health care that is coming to a hospital near you. You reach a certain age no hip replacement for you. Have a treatable bacterial infection your appointment hummm will be in 6 months is 3pm ok? All kinds of horror stories but as the lady said; "We have to pass it to find out what it says"....Disgusting



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by 727Sky
 


You must watch faux news and listen to Sarah Palin. I have friends in Canada, England, and the Netherlands, that received excellent health care under there systems.





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