60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told but minister still says controversial end-of

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posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told but minister still says controversial end-of-life plan is 'fantastic'


www.d ailymail.co.uk


  • Pathway involves the sick being sedated and usually denied nutrition and fluids
  • Families kept in the dark when doctors withdraw lifesaving treatment
  • Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt said pathway was a 'fantastic step forward'
  • Anti-euthanasia group said: ‘The Pathway is designed to finish people off double quick'


Up to 60,000 patients die on the Liverpool Care Pathway each year without giving their consent, shocking figures revealed yesterday.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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I was used to running across these articles when the US was hammering away at whether "health care" should be managed by the government.

Of course... this is a slightly more compelling matter to me. After all, I will age one day...


In comments that appeared to prejudge an official inquiry into the LCP, the Health Secretary said ‘one or two’ mistakes should not be allowed to discredit the entire end-of-life system.


Don't get me wrong.... I now that everything - once scaled-up to include entire national populations - needs some form of mitigating management to avoid ridiculous excesses.

But how can we simply kill off people without acknowledging that we are far from understanding the healing process, and recoveries happen all the time that completely mystify medical science?


‘Mr Hunt has made a nonsense of the claim of his ministers that there is going to be an independent inquiry.’

The review follows a public outcry over a string of disturbing cases, highlighted by this paper, in which patients or their families were ignored.

The pathway involves withdrawal of lifesaving treatment, with the sick sedated and usually denied nutrition and fluids. Death typically takes place within 29 hours.

The 60,000 figure comes from a joint study by the Marie Curie Palliative Care Institute in Liverpool and the Royal College of Physicians.


What do you all think of this "death care" system?





www.d ailymail.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)


+5 more 
posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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"Death typically takes place within 29hours"

my uncle died after being placed on the pathway, his liver cancer did not respond to treatment, shortly afterwards he was admitted to hospital and we still do not know if he became unconscious due to natural factors,or, if drugs were used to initiate unconsciousness, nevertheless the outcome was the same, and, it took him FIVE DAYS TO DIE.

Fluids and nutrition were withdrawn, drugs were used to maintain his state until he died, its a disgusting practice, but im sure the government is very happy claiming the million pounds per person death benefit they have on each member of the population that passes, paid for by using a part of their National Insurance contributions, it also means the costs for treatment are drastically reduced.
I know my uncle still had at least two or three months of life left, he wasn't admitted to hospital because he had collapsed, he was admitted because he couldn't cope on his own at home.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by The X
 


I'm so sorry for your loss.

It occurs to me that the interests who profit the most from extended end-of-life care will have a hard hand in fighting this practice... which is sort of odd in a way, considering that they benefit most from prolonged illness and suffering.

Nevertheless, human dignity and respect dictate that this must be carefully monitored and all concerned family members along with the patient need to be properly informed and responsibly guided.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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dafuq? is this legit? this is by far the most messed up thing i've seen on ats.


+4 more 
posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


Contrast "pathway" with the US system of keeping you alive and on life support, even though terminal, so the drug companies, hospitals, insurance companies, doctors can continue to reap the profits in a "for profit" medical system.

Getting someone into hospice care so they can die with dignity is an arduous task.


edit on 31-12-2012 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by olaru12
 


I am sure that now OBAMACARE is in effect it is only a matter of time before the "Board" determines what, when and how long you receive treatment.


+3 more 
posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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60...ahem...Thousand?? I cannot grasp the logic to justify this. There are people sitting in prison right now in our nation and will be there for life. They've killed maybe 1 or 2 people. The worst serial killers? Maybe a couple dozen that I know of for U.S. "records". 60,000? I guess when the numbers become that large, they aren't lives anymore. They're statistics.

You know what always leaves me with a burning curiosity? These people who talk up the barbaric "protocol" I've heard described here? How content and accepting will they be when that day comes that they are told it's their turn to die from a lack of food and water? I wonder...will they be as stoic in their own fate as they seem to be in sending so many others? Somehow I rather doubt that'll be the case but who knows. They may be that cold, even to themselves?



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by DOLCOTT
reply to post by olaru12
 


I am sure that now OBAMACARE is in effect it is only a matter of time before the "Board" determines what, when and how long you receive treatment.


The "Board" is composed of insurance executives. Do you think they will vote in anything other than their own self interest?

As long as Obamacare is under the auspices of the insurance industry; what's gonna change? Federal regulations favor corporate interests without fail.

Obama is following the neocons lead. Conservatives should be ecstatic.
edit on 31-12-2012 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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Well if Obamacare is put into full effect, I'm sure we will have this same type of deal in the States.

Death panels, premies killed if under a certain weight like in UK, rapid onslaught of death to those with slim chances of recovery.

It's about to get crazy up in here.

When it's my turn, I'm hittin the wilderness and cuttin of all food and water



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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I hate to burst you bubble, guys, but we already have similar practices in the USA.
It happens at the hospital administration level, with a "board" of medical staff that determine - many times without family or parental consent - just how much treatment a terminally ill patient will receive.
Basically, if the cost can be borne by the family (rich folks) a patient's life can be extended almost indefinitely. But the sad fact is that in many cases these patients are on Medicaid assistance and/or their insurance policies have paid out the maximum lifetime benefits.

The two big differences I see in the US compared to the UK is that: 1) parents and family are informed and advised and 2) it's not the "government" that makes the call.

ganjoa



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 03:23 PM
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I believe that hospitals in the UK won some sort of legal battle earlier this year to allow doctors to, essentially, kill patients if they felt that prolonging treatment was causing undue suffering, regardless of what the patient or their family had to say about it.

Here's another recent article:

They've sentenced Dad to death: Family's fury after hospital wins legal battle to let grandfather, 69, die if illness deteriorates.

Pretty messed up, if you ask me.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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death panels!

This is why obamacare is so horrific!
hopefully people will pay heed, but I doubt it.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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Thank God my Mother died at home. She had cancer and fought tooth and nail against this cruel disease but in the end the cancer won. I will say now publically that if any of my remaining relatives are put on this pathway I will personally thump the people responsible. It is a crime against humanity that this sort of thing is allowed to occur. Death is regrettably part of life but this totally abhorrant way of speeding up the process without consent should be taken to the European Court of Human Rights. Jeremy Hunt should be charged as should Cameron (as PM he presumably sanctions the policy) with murder.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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It always makes me laugh when Americans start talking about "death panels" and Obamacare

Do you honestly believe that your private health insurance companies don't have panels or committees that review a client's treatment to decide what is the most cost effective/profitable choice for the company, and that their choices may run contrary to the best choice for the client?



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by erwalker
 


Actually, they are called "actuarial tables" upon which all your 'insurance costs' are based.....

They won't call it "gambling" because the financial industry wants us to never suspect their addiction to it.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Like you mean, an insurance company with massive shares in somebody like Merk, or Pfizer, a big drug compamy,
will insist you get that companys drugs instead of what really works best?
Remember that the drug companies and the medical profession are in bed together, (for some reason there is no real laws against such things....) they can always find a loophole to bribe people....
Int it CLEAR by NOW, that those who rule us, the ones who make the real desicions and the real wealth, all think of us as "mere statistics."......
Pumped up with their power ,greed,and own self interest, it is easy for them to say what percent have to die to keep the system working for them and thiers.....
Its a goddamn pandemic!
The weathly few are bleeding us dry.......everywhere you investigate.....throw a rock in any direction,in downtown Washington DC and 9 out of 10 you hit some corrupt official or lobbyist....
If this were decided by the people involved and the doctor treating the patient with full transparancy, as well as refusal to participate....
Without anyone else getting their say.......
And everyone else stayed out of it..........?
YES
otherwise
NO
edit on 31-12-2012 by stirling because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
death panels!

This is why obamacare is so horrific!
hopefully people will pay heed, but I doubt it.


Death Panels?

You can bet that the rich people with uber insurance coverage won't be faced with any Death Panels regardless of their illness!!

But currently if you are poor or indigent without any insurance; the chances of surviving even an ordinary event like a heart attack...see ya on the otherside, you worthless piece of human filth. This is the American future with a greater and greater divide between the wealthy and the rest of us.
edit on 31-12-2012 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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I'm torn on this story.

At first, I'm appalled. Then, I start to think about it, and we can't forget that death happens in our care-bear society. We would all like to think that people with proper medical care can overcome death and live happy lives, but it just isn't the case. Sure, proper medical care can keep the body alive for a long, long time after they should've died, but to what end? That they are a vegetable that needs daily cleaning for a few months before they pass? That they are in pain and look forward to death for the last few months they have?
I hate to bring cost into this, but sometimes you have to wonder if it is right to saddle the living with debt so that the dying can have an abysmal quality of life for a short time.

Sure, that's not always the case for terminal illnesses, but I'm also not assuming that the "death panel" that makes theses decisions are doing it in a heartless, calculated way. Maybe I'm wrong on that and there should be oversight, but still.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
I believe that hospitals in the UK won some sort of legal battle earlier this year to allow doctors to, essentially, kill patients if they felt that prolonging treatment was causing undue suffering, regardless of what the patient or their family had to say about it.

Here's another recent article:

They've sentenced Dad to death: Family's fury after hospital wins legal battle to let grandfather, 69, die if illness deteriorates.

Pretty messed up, if you ask me.


I read that article. The judge, and the hospitals, homes would be inundated with BULLHORNS UNTIL THEY APOLOGIZED, FORFITTED PENSIONS AND TURNED THEMSELVES FOR TREASON!

I suggest groups of thousands and bullhorns doing just that.

That would end it swiftly.

Also charges need to be laid pronto, this is criminal. YEAH THE JUDGES ARE CRIMINALS.
edit on 31-12-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)





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