How many here WANT to see us go over it? So what if I pay more taxes, I don't care, and we need both increase in taxes, and more importantly a reduction in Government spending. The Fiscal Cliff does both and I'm hoping it hits hard...very hard.

What would this do in the long term?

Though I do believe in reduce taxes for economic growth, and just looking at the State level of States that have high taxes to low taxes we can see it does work. High tax States are dying a slow death and low tax States are doing well.

With that said, I think America needs a personal wakeup call that PERSONALLY affects each and every one of us. It seems a large portion of America votes for what they can personally get out of the deal and who cares little to things like 16 trillion dollar debt THAT is growing at an exponential rate.

PEOPLE JUST DO NOT CARE!!

Well when it actually hits home hard, as in one's pocket book with increased taxes, reduced subsistence, and huge inflation to the cost of basic living expenses, I'm almost like a little kid waiting with anticipation.

We are talking BUSH tax cuts and I'm sure every liberal spits after saying it, but let's move on to something else that actually fixes this mess AND let EVERY American feel the pain of our Government's huge failures that Bush's tax cut band aids just put off for a short while the enviable.

Here is a example of good....

[url=http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/12/fiscal_cliff_and_you_how_daily_life_will_be_affected_for_retirees_working.html]Cliff[/url ]

Do you directly or indirectly work for the government? If so, you’re set to be hit by the sequestration provisions of the Budget Control Act of 2011. That means about $1.2 trillion in cuts over the next 10 years, divided about equally between defense and non-defense provisions. Social Security benefits and most assistance to the poor are exempt, but that means big cuts to the rest. Federal civilian employees, manufacturers of military equipment, Medicare providers, and other government contractors will be hit hard. So will lots of service providers in the D.C. metropolitan area whose incomes depend indirectly on federal funding streams.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
How many here WANT to see us go over it? So what if I pay more taxes, I don't care, and we need both increase in taxes, and more importantly a reduction in Government spending. The Fiscal Cliff does both and I'm hoping it hits hard...very hard.

Was reading a few days ago that even these "severe" tax hikes and spending cuts *still arent enough* to stop the slide into further debt.

The only solution to the debt problem is something MORE severe than a cliff.

It will come eventually, and then there will be the protests similar to the ones you've seen in Greece, but for now that reality is kicked down the road a little way.

That is a fair question.

I would cut overseas military spending.
I would bring home ALL troops and put them to work building/rebuilding factories. I would then put them to work in said factories.
I would reduce our dependency on China and foreign oil through most any means possible.
I would de-militarize police forces around the Country and return to community policing.

Were I King it would be a different world. Maybe I should start a thread.......

Originally posted by Mamatus
That is a fair question.

I would cut overseas military spending.
I would bring home ALL troops and put them to work building/rebuilding factories. I would then put them to work in said factories.
I would reduce our dependency on China and foreign oil through most any means possible.
I would de-militarize police forces around the Country and return to community policing.

Were I King it would be a different world. Maybe I should start a thread.......

The vast majority of your countrymen do not want this. They had their chance. At least the outright laughing heard around the world has calmed down into some snickering.

And that is where you are wrong. The vast majority of our Countrymen do NOT want this. This you see is the real issue, here in the States we have watched nearly every single politician lie, cheat and steal. Oh, and getting away with it. We do not have the ability to affect a darn thing.

The first day of Libya we launched over millions and millions of dollars of cruise missiles, no one asked me.
Oh and no one asked me about going to War with Terror, bailing out the big banks or General Motors.

My Countrymen don't want all these wars. I in fact do not know a single person that wants these wars....... The defense industry and the big corps own this Country, not The People. Sick of getting blamed for it myself.....

The "fiscal cliff" that everybody is carrying on about is just political theater. The two parties who "can't seem to come to an agreement" are just playing their various roles, so that it appears that they are actually doing something. The end result has already been decided.

Our problem is, we are on economic life support as a country. When our own federal reserve prints money to buy our own debt, we are in deep fecal matter. It is a house of cards built on shifting sands. The "fiscal cliff" nonsense is to acclimatize us to more austerity, more poverty, and more government control.

Gotta love how the congress gave themselves raises this past week, while they talk about how broke we are. Utterly disgusting.

China is probably going to stop buying our worthless debt as well. They own too much of it as it is. What are they going to ask for as payment when we can't pony up the dough? The implications are truly sickening.

No central bank has ever done anything but drag a country deeper into debt. Each dollar printed puts us deeper into hock, as each dollar that is printed costs us more than a dollar to repay. Therefore, by design, we will never be debt-free, or have a balanced budget.

Until we do as Iceland did, by tossing out the central bank and the idiots in government who supported it, our doom is written on the wall. Read it and weep.

Originally posted by Mamatus

Spoken like someone who has very little to lose financially.............

I would love to see the average income of people that make statements like yours. I am willing to bet it is on the low end of the spectrum. When I had nothing and was young and angry I would have wished the same thing.
Now that I am older and have worked my ass off for what little I have my views are a bit different than when I was young and broke.

Actually the cliff will not affect the poor, students etc that make little. I guess my bitch is people don't care if I pay an extra 50k in taxes...but they think it is a crime if someone in the middle class pays 2 or 3k more. I'm far from being rich, but taxes do hit me hard, and just because it doesn't force me to eat Ramen noodles and hotdogs it's ok....

Somewhere people have a standard of living view that anyone that lives above that view should dump all that "extra" "un-needed" income into taxes...

PS I just went on my first vacation in ten years. Gonna go on another one next month. Yay lets all fall off the cliff. Right after I finally got to a point in my life all my bills are on auto pay.

The people have voted so it is time for us all to feel that vote. So the family that made 60k four years ago now need to make 75k to live the same lifestyle that they had in 2008. WELL now that same middle class family will need to pay 4k more in taxes, the truth is more like they will need to actually pay taxes now, where in the past child tax credit etc allowed them to pay extremely little in taxes or none at all.

Someone needs to pay for Obamacare, 2x the number on food stamps, Baby boomer's medical, so on and so on, and that someone is everyone with a job .... Obama says things are really looking good now and The People voted him back into office so it must be true, and it must be true that everyone wants to pay more taxes to pay for it all....if this isn't reality why then did he win?

I'm sorry your vacations are coming to an abrupt end as they just got started, but that is reality...

We went over it a long time ago,the thing the talking heads are yacking about now,is that things are about to get so much worse,that a lot of people are going to be forced out of their drunken stupor for the first time in several years.

Happy New Year.

Downsize and fly low so when you are forced to drop your stuff,it might survive the drop so you can get some of it back when the smoke clears,and if you fall you may survive the drop.

I have been flying small and low for so long,I really can't fathom doing it any other way anymore.

Quite a few of you probably cannot understand my meaning.

The people who run the world,and rely on you to be ignorant and complacent,are the ones who are fearful of you snapping to,it ain't so much about you all,or me.

Originally posted by Mamatus
That is a fair question.

I would cut overseas military spending.
I would bring home ALL troops and put them to work building/rebuilding factories. I would then put them to work in said factories.

So I was in the Military for 28 years flying C-130s and C-141s and you would like to see me build factories instead? lol BTW whose factories? You know in the past inmates were used as cheap labor so others could make big profits....once what factories etc would these totally inexperienced military people build?

I don't think you really thought this through, the Government is not in the factory business. Since the military is at its smallest size since like the 1800s why not pull all those GS workers, that have replaced many military jobs, away from their desks to build, pick up trash etc....

I would reduce our dependency on China and foreign oil through most any means possible.

With Obama in office this will not happen in anyway shape or form...in four years we will need more from the outside. BTW the biggest oil importer to the US is Canada and Obama wants to stop that....

How can we get jobs back to the US from China? If I own a company why pay 3 times or more for the cost of an item made here when I can have it made in China? Once again we will see nothing from this administration to fix this.

Is there any compelling reason why ANY company should keep their jobs here when overseas is so much cheaper?

I would de-militarize police forces around the Country and return to community policing.

What? not sure what this means, and more importantly I see zero money saved here....you need to start thnking in terms of Trillions of dollars saved, AND creating jobs....

Will not happen with who we have in office right now, but as I said that is who the people want....so now they can reap their rewards.

Originally posted by FissionSurplus

Until we do as Iceland did, by tossing out the central bank and the idiots in government who supported it, our doom is written on the wall. Read it and weep.

One of the reasons I want everyone to feel the pain and not live some lie that the "evil rich" can pay for it all. I look around me and so many are in dire straits but Obama says everything is looking good....When 60% of America is in dire straits we might start to see real changes...like bringing in a third party that will do real changes.