Let's talk about REINCARNATION again....by special request.

Originally posted by akushla99
The notion that we are to become 'enlightened' in one lifetime, and one lifetime alone, is absurd beyond belief...

Not really. The only lesson to be learned is to love God and love your neighbour as yourself. Once one stops putting themselves before others, that's pretty much in hand -- no multiple, disconnected lives needed.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by akushla99
The notion that we are to become 'enlightened' in one lifetime, and one lifetime alone, is absurd beyond belief...

Not really. The only lesson to be learned is to love God and love your neighbour as yourself. Once one stops putting themselves before others, that's pretty much in hand -- no multiple, disconnected lives needed.

...and if you do not do this, by accident or design?


A99

reply to post by adjensen

Which doesn't help you when you're here.

While you're "home" you have the chance to reflect on what has occurred... and those memories influence how you will react to certain situations in the next incarnation. Even if you don't know they exist

The Gnostic view of reincarnation isn't the same as yours.

Probably because I am not Gnostic... but their texts are handy for understanding the process from a metaphysical stand point

It's worse, because it collapsed about 200 years after it started,

Collapsed or was destroyed? Just because a belief is destroyed doesn't make it less valid.... especially considering the gnostics were exterminated like a group of rats as opposed to human beings

but they didn't view reincarnation as "progressing."

you're wrong...

They viewed reincarnation as a learning process... unfortunately punishment and torture were also a part of their beliefs which I don't believe is true either... You get what you give....

Their scripture uses the phrase "tossed into prison" which is the process of death and rebirth which happens over and over until said person learns what he needs to learn for progression... They also believed that the soul needs to follow another "more advanced" soul in order to progress...

"This soul needs to follow another soul in whom the Spirit of life dwells, because she is saved through the Spirit. Then she will never be thrust into flesh again." (Secret Book of John)

Wisdom of Solomon is a Jewish text, and many Jews believe in the pre-existence of the soul. I don't know that that notion is incompatible with Christianity, but it's not the same thing as reincarnation -- the Mormons believe in the pre-existence of the soul, but do not believe in reincarnation.

My mistake... I could have sworn I read that the catholic church accepted this book as canon...

From personal experience, no. Mine is not the life I, or anyone, would have chosen.

I didn't say you chose your existence.... your life is what you've made it...

Do you believe starving children choose their existence?

Obviously not.... but either God is a cruel bastard (like the OT shows) or these people have been given what they've created... Even as it says in the bible... you get what you give

and the world is messed up and has been since it started...

Its the only logical way

Originally posted by windword
I have many examples of personal growth through the remembering of something that occurred in a past life, as it relates to a present time situation, but I won't subject you to my "fantasies."

Just to be clear -- there is no doubt in my mind that you believe those experiences to be real. I just don't believe that they are.

I did give it a chance -- I studied Hinduism for a while in my 20s, but in the end, none of it made any sense when I actually tried to work through the practicalities.

No offense meant, but Buddha was to Hinduism as Jesus was to Judaism. Buddha taught "The Way" to free oneself from the "Karmic Wheel" that Hinduism teaches. But the lessons from the Bagavagita are still beautiful.

Personally, I never found anything of interest in Buddhism.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen

 

Which doesn't help you when you're here.

While you're "home" you have the chance to reflect on what has occurred... and those memories influence how you will react to certain situations in the next incarnation. Even if you don't know they exist

Again, that makes zero sense. You're claiming that knowledge that you're not aware of somehow influences your actions -- of what benefit is that? How are you supposed to "progress" if your behaviour is modified by these unknown insights? What's the point of "life" if you're just a puppet of yourself in some other sense?

It's worse, because it collapsed about 200 years after it started,

Collapsed or was destroyed? Just because a belief is destroyed doesn't make it less valid...

It does for that group, because the Gnosis had to come from a Gnostic master, and once they died out (no, the church wasn't at a point where it could "destroy" them, but pressure from the church most certainly led to their decline in popularity) the knowledge that they held died with them, because it couldn't be written down.

but they didn't view reincarnation as "progressing."

you're wrong...

They viewed reincarnation as a learning process...

No, their view of reincarnation was that that was what happened when you were enlightened, but didn't acquire the Gnosis before you died. Essentially, you got another chance to obtain it.

My mistake... I could have sworn I read that the catholic church accepted this book as canon...

That doesn't mean that Catholics wrote it.

From personal experience, no. Mine is not the life I, or anyone, would have chosen.

I didn't say you chose your existence.... your life is what you've made it...

Do you believe starving children choose their existence?

Do you believe that starving children "made their life"?

As I said, no, my life is not one I would have chosen, any more than a starving child would choose that life. But there are those who believe in reincarnation that also believe that people "script" their lives, in order to learn some lesson or another.

A ludicrous belief, and it seems you agree.

reply to post by adjensen

Just to be clear -- there is no doubt in my mind that you believe those experiences to be real. I just don't believe that they are.

So, you know how I feel when Christians tell me that they "know" something because Jesus told them, or the Holy Spirit spoke to them. But at least we're talking about personal knowledge through personal experience.

Some people believe in the virgin birth, the resurrection of Jesus after his death and that his death absolves sin, just because a book says so, without personal conviction. Then they mock and admonish people who have spiritual experiences from other avenues, saying they have been deceived by Satan.

Or, some will say that personal knowledge of spiritual things is folly and God confuses the wise, out of spite.

I know that these people think that their flavor of religion is real and true, but I just don't believe that they are right.

reply to post by adjensen


Quoted:
'As I said, no, my life is not one I would have chosen, any more than a starving child would choose that life. But there are those who believe in reincarnation that also believe that people "script" their lives, in order to learn some lesson or another.'

The flip-side of this is exactly what you said...to love one another as you would be loved...how are you helping the starving children, when the life you have is not the one you would have chosen, and how are they helping you?...

Question unanswered...

'...and if you do not do this by accident or design?'

A99

I like to think of the higher Self as the master planner of your life, so that you may remember and awaken, and then get back on task.

And it works for me. Synchronicities and "coincidences" happen to me literally all the time. In fact, if I don't see them for a while I wonder if I took a wrong turn at Albuquerque or something.

My higher Self has revealed itself to me as a conscience but also much, much more, which I choose to accept and use as a guide to my spiritual path, which apparently is going some CRAZY but interesting places lately.


And you know how there is a conversation going on here about God saying something to you? For me, on the 12th, Creator/Source/something hit me like a brick in the middle of the night, and forever changed me. No words, just pure energy and it hasn't left except for my personal 3 days of darkness which was 21st, 22nd, and 23rd as I recall. So for me, Christ Consciousness or something of that nature has "spoken" to me and continues to envelop me, and that's what I place as the primary reason my entire outlook on many things has changed.

So I definitely believe in both reincarnation, and God/Creator/Source speaking to people directly. Perhaps not with words because words fail to really describe what I felt, and I'm sure others are or have felt.

Reincarnation no. Now genetic memory, passing memories down through genes yes.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen

 

Then they mock and admonish people who have spiritual experiences from other avenues, saying they have been deceived by Satan.

I've never used Satan as my "go-to guy" -- to the best of my knowledge, I've never told anyone anything that they've experienced has been a deceit by him. Apart from factual errors or misrepresentations of belief systems that I know a thing or two about, I don't generally fault anyone for their spiritual claims. If a person wants to believe that Allah is the way to go, that they've experienced past lives, or that there's no such thing as God, that's all fine by me.

Originally posted by DoubleEE
reply to post by jiggerj

 

thanks for making me feel better. i would love it if you visited my intro post.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

it might help you understand some things about me.

I'll check it out, but I don't need to. You are funny and interesting.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Reincarnation no. Now genetic memory, passing memories down through genes yes.

Now we're getting somewhere...

Genes composed of what?
...and to what purpose, if not in equal measures to all creatures with genes?

Kinda sounds like the same thing, using different language...


A99

Reincarnation has a HUGE stealth purpose...

Just like ALL other religious propaganda.

Reincarnation is just ONE small piece of the agenda behind false religion.

The real purpose behind that agenda is just another ploy to mislead people away from the truth

The people of the world believe this lie because a vast new age bombardment of misinformation.

Satan will use ANY means available to lead people away from God.

A simple way for him to do this is with counterfeit religious experiences such as 'reincarnation past-lives.

"Why would Satan bother coming up with a big lie about reincarnation? What's the point?"

Mankind has an innate desire to commune with God. It is in our nature, because God put it there. Satan will use any means available to lead people away from God. He doesn't have to get people to believe there is no god, he simply has to get them to not believe in the Christian God. A simple way for him to do this is with counterfeit religious experiences such as "reincarnation past-lives."

"Is there any evidence that reincarnation is true?"

There IS false evidence that reincarnation is true.

Huh? False evidence of truth? What does that mean?

Suppose you are on a jury trying Smith for burglary, and Smith did commit the burglary. Smith gets on the witness stand and lies—he says he was with his girlfriend all day. Smith has presented evidence. It is false evidence, but it still is evidence.

But what if you believe Smith? You think you reached the correct decision, but it's still false evidence. You leave secure in the knowledge that Smith didn't and could not possibly have committed the burglary—after all, you have evidence. But your decision is based on false evidence.

Reincarnation -- Satan's Second-Biggest Lie

reply to post by adjensen

Again, that makes zero sense. You're claiming that knowledge that you're not aware of somehow influences your actions -- of what benefit is that? How are you supposed to "progress" if your behaviour is modified by these unknown insights?

like I've said... you're given a body you deserve... and a situation that your past actions created... and you either learn to deal with what you have been given, and find the positive... or fail the "test" and get held back a grade

How are you supposed to "progress" if your behaviour is modified by these unknown insights? What's the point of "life" if you're just a puppet of yourself in some other sense?

To learn... pretty simple eh

It does for that group, because the Gnosis had to come from a Gnostic master,

A what?

Do you have any quotes or names for this gnostic master?

and once they died out (no, the church wasn't at a point where it could "destroy" them, but pressure from the church most certainly led to their decline in popularity) the knowledge that they held died with them, because it couldn't be written down.

Are we talking about the same scripture here, or do you know of some texts I don't?

That doesn't mean that Catholics wrote it.

But if it is accepted doctrine... that means that statement is also accepted.... no?

Do you believe that starving children "made their life"?

I believe there is a reason behind their situation that we can not fully understand...

As I said, no, my life is not one I would have chosen, any more than a starving child would choose that life.

I didn't say you chose your life... I said you get what you give...

But there are those who believe in reincarnation that also believe that people "script" their lives, in order to learn some lesson or another.

I've heard that as well... from that psychic lady that's always on montel Williams... Silvia brown... and I've even read one of her books which is rare for me... it was quite good.

Im not entirely convinced of this... but its possible...

Who really knows

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Reincarnation has a HUGE stealth purpose...

Just like ALL other religious propaganda.

Reincarnation is just ONE small piece of the agenda behind false religion.

The real purpose behind that agenda is just another ploy to mislead people away from the truth

The people of the world believe this lie because a vast new age bombardment of misinformation.

Satan will use ANY means available to lead people away from God.

A simple way for him to do this is with counterfeit religious experiences such as 'reincarnation past-lives.

"Why would Satan bother coming up with a big lie about reincarnation? What's the point?"

Mankind has an innate desire to commune with God. It is in our nature, because God put it there. Satan will use any means available to lead people away from God. He doesn't have to get people to believe there is no god, he simply has to get them to not believe in the Christian God. A simple way for him to do this is with counterfeit religious experiences such as "reincarnation past-lives."

"Is there any evidence that reincarnation is true?"

There IS false evidence that reincarnation is true.

Huh? False evidence of truth? What does that mean?

Suppose you are on a jury trying Smith for burglary, and Smith did commit the burglary. Smith gets on the witness stand and lies—he says he was with his girlfriend all day. Smith has presented evidence. It is false evidence, but it still is evidence.

But what if you believe Smith? You think you reached the correct decision, but it's still false evidence. You leave secure in the knowledge that Smith didn't and could not possibly have committed the burglary—after all, you have evidence. But your decision is based on false evidence.

Reincarnation -- Satan's Second-Biggest Lie

Really pure and absolute guff...again...
Sometimes I'm ashamed to be a member...

A99

reply to post by akushla99


Its his path to take, man, his path.

I agree with you but I have learned that judgment is not my place, and honestly since we create the reality we make his belief becomes as real as say, yours or mine.

But I would say Truth is we are Eternal and One with Source, and that there is no "deception" other than the ones we place between us and the One.

Originally posted by Klassified
Well, if we're going to talk about reincarnation, the collective unconscious is something I must bring to the discussion. If you'll open your dossiers to page 1...

Collective unconscious is a term of analytical psychology, coined by Carl Jung. It is proposed to be a part of the unconscious mind, expressed in humanity and all life forms with nervous systems, and describes how the structure of the psyche autonomously organizes experience. Jung distinguished the collective unconscious from the personal unconscious, in that the personal unconscious is a personal reservoir of experience unique to each individual, while the collective unconscious collects and organizes those personal experiences in a similar way with each member of a particular species.

On page two you'll find your first conundrum. Are those who profess to remember past lives, actually remembering past lives? Or are they experiencing someone else's memories? If Jung was right, then depending on our sensitivity at any given time, what is "remembered" during hypnotic regression, or dreams, may not be our own experiences, but someone else's.

Hey Klass! Happy New Year! You too Wild, I didn't wish it to ya before!

I have certainly experienced this. I have many dreams, so very real and vivid, where I was someone else. In all these dreams, that persons life is about to end. Once, I was in a plane crash, and I was, in a flash, born, the 3rd male child of two math professors in Germany. I was going to be an astronaut! Go figure. When I awoke, I had to look at my hands to make sure that I was me!

In another dream, I swooped into a woman's life, seconds before a group of terrorists stormed her home, in a suburb of eastern Turkey. The rape and murder of that woman was explicate and so horrendous. It was meant to shock the community and send a message.

Years later, I saw an episode of Oprah, and she was interviewing a journalist who reported on the event, years back, when it happened. That reporter described everything about that event just the way I experienced in that clear dream, to a chilling tee. I knew that I had been there. I don't know why. "Quantum Leap?"

On the other hand. There are those who claim(Delores Cannon comes to mind) that past life regression can be an effective tool in solving present life problems because of "excess baggage" that has been carried over into this life.

So the question is, can we distinguish between Collective memories, and soul incarnations? Or, are either mutually exclusive?

The mind is strange place. Memory is even more illusive and miraculous. When I remember people, each one of them has their own qualities. I've learned to feel them within their own distinct "flavor."

Some memories are easy to identify, while others are more like, "Did I dream that or did it really happen?" Or, "Did that really happen or did I see that in a movie, or read it in a book?"

Hamlet:
And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Originally posted by fourthmeal
reply to post by akushla99

 

Its his path to take, man, his path.

I agree with you but I have learned that judgment is not my place, and honestly since we create the reality we make his belief becomes as real as say, yours or mine.

But I would say Truth is we are Eternal and One with Source, and that there is no "deception" other than the ones we place between us and the One.

*handshake*

I really dont like watching people smash thier heads against brick walls in an attempt to justify that pulverising it will somehow save us sinners

The absurd notion that an omnipotent, omniscient, loving god gives one chance and one chance alone to his children is so procedurally flawed, it isn't funny anymore...the clues are there, right there in the books, all books (albeit the mistranslations of mistranslations of hand-me-down chinese whispers)...

A99

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen

 

Then they mock and admonish people who have spiritual experiences from other avenues, saying they have been deceived by Satan.

I've never used Satan as my "go-to guy" -- to the best of my knowledge, I've never told anyone anything that they've experienced has been a deceit by him. Apart from factual errors or misrepresentations of belief systems that I know a thing or two about, I don't generally fault anyone for their spiritual claims. If a person wants to believe that Allah is the way to go, that they've experienced past lives, or that there's no such thing as God, that's all fine by me.

I know that about you. I was using the opportunity you presented to vent!

EDIT: Just in time for the resident Satan bullhorn!

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this already, didn't have time to read through all the posts. This book: Many Mansions, is truly a great read. I had already believed in reincarnation by the time I read the book, but this was the proverbial cherry on top for me. I guess you can say it solidified my belief even further.



Here is an excerpt from the book:

There are many instances of this type of karma in the Cayce files. One example, a college professor who had been born totally blind, heard about Cayce on a radio program called "Miracles of the Mind." He applied for a physical reading and experienced conspicuous improvements in health and vision by following its instructions, which included osteopathic adjustments, electrical treatments, and a change of diet. Within three months he had achieved 10 percent vision in his left eye, which had been considered hopeless by eye specialists. The professor's life reading outlined four previous incarnations: one in America during the Civil War period, one in France during the Crusades, one in Persia about 1000 B.C., and one in Atlantis, just before its final submergence.
It was in Persia that he had set in motion the spiritual law which resulted in his blindness in the present. He had been a member of a barbaric tribe whose custom was to blind its enemies with red-hot irons, and it had been his office to do the blinding. Cerminara, Dr. Gina (October 5, 1988), Some Types of Physical Karma. Many Mansions. 4, pgs. 48-49, New York, NY: 1988.

About the author: Milwaukee-born Gina Cerminara received her B.A., M.A, and Ph.D. degrees in psychology from the University of Wisconsin before beginning her years of intensive research in parapsychology. A gifted lecturer, she has toured major cities around the world.