Let's talk about REINCARNATION again....by special request.

Originally posted by Klassified
Well, if we're going to talk about reincarnation, the collective unconscious is something I must bring to the discussion. If you'll open your dossiers to page 1...

Collective unconscious is a term of analytical psychology, coined by Carl Jung. It is proposed to be a part of the unconscious mind, expressed in humanity and all life forms with nervous systems, and describes how the structure of the psyche autonomously organizes experience. Jung distinguished the collective unconscious from the personal unconscious, in that the personal unconscious is a personal reservoir of experience unique to each individual, while the collective unconscious collects and organizes those personal experiences in a similar way with each member of a particular species.

On page two you'll find your first conundrum. Are those who profess to remember past lives, actually remembering past lives? Or are they experiencing someone else's memories? If Jung was right, then depending on our sensitivity at any given time, what is "remembered" during hypnotic regression, or dreams, may not be our own experiences, but someone else's.

On the other hand. There are those who claim(Delores Cannon comes to mind) that past life regression can be an effective tool in solving present life problems because of "excess baggage" that has been carried over into this life.

So the question is, can we distinguish between Collective memories, and soul incarnations? Or, are either mutually exclusive?

Hows that for starters Wildtimes?

edit on 12/31/2012 by Klassified because: spelling

Well said.

Often overlooked in the discussion on reincarnation is the preponderence to completely individualise the experience...the melding of individual, family group, country group, soul group experiences is pertinent and relevant to a degree that is waaay confusing to the uninformed (apologies to any subscribing to this group).

We often hear the throw-away, 'we are all one', slogan, and pigeon-hole its meaning...it means much more than we often care to investigate.

Collective and soul reincarnations are not mutually exclusive, this would render the experience exclusive of other souls' journeys within the construct of the whole shebang. The whole debate on FREE WILL, and its associated implications and percieved complications, vis-a-vis other individuals is a case in point. The greater responsibility we have to our family, suburb, state, country, world...is what is at work...and our 'cog-like' little decisions are the butterfly flapping its wings on one side of the globe...a flapping for which we are ultimately responsible to ourselves for, but can have a greater effect on group experiences and influence on helping each other find the way - a way.

A99

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by fourthmeal
Its known as the veil of forgetfulness. One of the many veils that separate 3D from higher planes of existence. Ones that can be torn down with remembrance!

That's what doesn't make any sense. How is one supposed to "progress" if the first thing that they have to do is figure out that they're reincarnated, figure out what they knew before, figure out what they need to do this go-around, and finally get it done.

That's a ton of overhead for the actual "get it done" part. If reincarnation was truly a directed process, there is no reason for the "remembering" part, so it's unnecessary, and if it's unnecessary, then either reincarnation isn't directed (making "progress" a non-sensical concept,) or it doesn't exist.

Some reincarnations have a focus on a particular memory-type experience...others don't because it forms no part of the journey they are about to embark on, as they stand at the veil before crossing (simplified).

A99

reply to post by akushla99


Starred the hell out of that, could not agree more.

While on the point of this, I really gotta ask, am I the only one picking up very powerful vibration/energy/whateveryoumightcallit lately? Like all the time, with ebbs and flows, my body has this vibration to it that wasn't there prior to 12/12, prior to my personal event. I'm just shocked that A: if I'm not the only one, how the heck are there not thread after thread of this amazing experience, and B: if it is common then how the heck are people still denying that something amazing is going on.. or C: its just me. lol.

As you can probably surmise I equate reincarnation with Ascension with God/Creator/Source all as One unified thing.

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Can a soul be born without a body?

If it could, or if we can somehow fathom how, I think it might be possible that souls can precede the body. But until then, the soul, or whatever it is we think is a soul, must be an epiphenomenon of the body and therefore is born and extinguished with it. Nonetheless it's very difficult to fathom a soul, whether reincarnated or not, outside the context of the body.

Yet, there are many people who do not drive cars...drivers without vehicles...and when You are on the freeway you see people on cars...where are the vehicle-less drivers? (trite, I know)

A99

reply to post by adjensen

The only people who think that this has Jesus saying that John is the reincarnation of Elijah are people who are rooting around, looking for evidence of reincarnation in the Bible.

Heh...

correction... even Christians in some sects believe john was in fact Elijah...

Actually the only ones that don't are the ones that are "taught" that reincarnation doesn't exist... Fortunately these Christians form one of the only religious circles on the planet that believe reincarnation doesn't exist. These are also the same people who use hebews 9:27 as proof that we only live one life... Which also shows they don't know how to read scripture in context either way...

Honestly who needs to dig through scripture to find proof... Jesus said it specifically....

He says.... IF you can receive it.... meaning IF you haven't been taught otherwise, or even IF you arn't blinded by teachers of men.... John IS Elijah.... and follows it up with the statement ..."He that hath ears to hear, let him hear"

So why can't you hear what hes saying?

Put your religion aside for a second and imagine reading that verse without having any influence from outside sources....

There's only one way to understand it without your religion fogging up your glasses

Originally posted by fourthmeal
reply to post by akushla99

 

Starred the hell out of that, could not agree more.

While on the point of this, I really gotta ask, am I the only one picking up very powerful vibration/energy/whateveryoumightcallit lately? Like all the time, with ebbs and flows, my body has this vibration to it that wasn't there prior to 12/12, prior to my personal event. I'm just shocked that A: if I'm not the only one, how the heck are there not thread after thread of this amazing experience, and B: if it is common then how the heck are people still denying that something amazing is going on.. or C: its just me. lol.

As you can probably surmise I equate reincarnation with Ascension with God/Creator/Source all as One unified thing.

TY

The 'ebb and flow' of a vibration is its nature...it can be dulled, or harmonised (operating on many different frequencies - if that makes sense)...the more harmonically 'ebbed' they are, the greater the effect (on all levels)...

This effect can, and does, emanate...the personal effect spreads outward, and more begin to...not so much remember, but attune...

It must be said that, this effect happens both ways (the power of positive and negative thought - another topic)...
Critical mass can be reached...this is our work...

A99

DB post

reply to post by wildtimes


Have ancient Eyptian Deitys been reincarnated. Are they alive as real physical people today?
Who would they likely be today you think?

Ancient Eyptians Deitys
Amun, Anubis, Aten, Atum, Bastet, Bes, Geb, Hapy, Hathor, Horus, Isis, Khepri, Khnum, Ma'at, Nephthys, Nun,
Nut, Osiris, Ptah, Ra, Ra-Horakhty, Sekhmet, Seshat, Seth, Shu, Sobek, Tawaret, Tefnut, Thoth

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Have ancient Eyptian Deitys been reincarnated. Are they alive as real physical people today?
Who would they likely be today you think?

Ancient Eyptians Deitys
Amun, Anubis, Aten, Atum, Bastet, Bes, Geb, Hapy, Hathor, Horus, Isis, Khepri, Khnum, Ma'at, Nephthys, Nun,
Nut, Osiris, Ptah, Ra, Ra-Horakhty, Sekhmet, Seshat, Seth, Shu, Sobek, Tawaret, Tefnut, Thoth

If they are truly 'deities', they have no need to RE-incarnate...

A99

I'm happy to see this thread, OP.

I am a new member here, and this is one topic I joined to research. I was going to do a thread too, but you beat me to it! That's okay. I can still learn what I want to here.

I haven't read all the replies yet, as I need to get ready to go out for a New Years party. But I will come back and read all of them.

I read through Sled's thread before I joined. This is what got me interested in the topic.

I've met people that seemed very familiar to me, but had never met them before. Reincarnation could explain that if we knew one another in a past life.

Anyway, I have to run now, but I'll be back! S&F on your thread!

Happy New Years everyone!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by jiggerj

 

My opinion on reincarnation is, ahem, drum roll please...

Bdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbd

I dunno. Doubt it, but I haven't a clue.

Still, it's possible. Right?
I always enjoy your posts, btw. For what it's worth ($.02, and NOT copper!).......

HNY, dude. You're one of my faves.....

edit on 31-12-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Thanks. I always try to bring some logic to the table (even though quite a few don't like it )

As for reincarnation being possible, we know that our physical being decays when we die, and is then turned into the earth for other living things to survive on. So, none of our solid material can go forth to recreate a new being.

The only thing left is our consciousness. I will go way WAY out on a limb with this analogy: If we can take our voices and transfer them onto records, then who's to say that our consciousness (our every thought) isn't being recorded by the universe, where a future (and very sensitive mind) can pick up on those thoughts and claim them as their own? Again, I very much doubt it, but I can't say that it is impossible.

Originally posted by DoubleEE
reply to post by jiggerj

 

gee thanks. funny way of showing it. not the way it reads to me, but hey i don't know you so i guess i will just take it for what it for what it was. seemed as though you were making fun of me.

Aw no, I was having fun because of you. Big difference. I truly enjoyed your post.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen

 

The only people who think that this has Jesus saying that John is the reincarnation of Elijah are people who are rooting around, looking for evidence of reincarnation in the Bible.

Heh...

correction... even Christians in some sects believe john was in fact Elijah...

Actually the only ones that don't are the ones that are "taught" that reincarnation doesn't exist...

That isn't true -- did you read that page? Every one of those commentaries says the same thing.

There is no need to "teach" the two billion (with a "B") Christians who don't believe in reincarnation -- there's no reason for them to believe in it, so why would they? The message of the Bible is about resurrection, not reincarnation.

Put your religion aside for a second and imagine reading that verse without having any influence from outside sources....

As I wrote earlier, reincarnation makes no sense, in my opinion. There is no purpose to it, and I think it's human nature to take dreams or imaginings and try to apply some interpretation to it that gives their lives meaning. To make it clear, I do not believe that anyone who claims to have had memories of previous lives has had anything but imaginative fantasies.

My religion doesn't have anything to do with it -- reincarnation is an irrational belief -- so I read that passage the same way that anyone else who's not quote mining reads it, that John is the Elijah for that age, he's playing Elijah's role, as prophesied by Malachi.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by ItDepends

 

Agreed. The only reason I even mentioned it was because your comment made me remember the Aborigines. So I thought it would be an interesting tidbit for the thread. Happy new year.

Yup, thanks very much!! Happy New Year to you as well Cheers!

reply to post by Thought Provoker


But Jesus also says that John is not Elijah. It can't be both; and thus Jesus must have been referring to someting other than reincarnation.

reply to post by RedmoonMWC

At no point in the Bible is Reincarnation denied.

Yes it is. Hebrews 9:27:

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment

The Old Testament is fairly clear as well that when people die, they go to Sheol, the Kingdom of the dead, in order to wait for the Day of the Lord. Not to mention that at the resurrection of Lazarus, Martha acknowledged that she expected Lazarus to come back at the last day.

reply to post by wildtimes

If "Jesus" returns, it will be reincarnated (like the Dalai Lamas), not in his Jewish desert garb.

The problem with that from a biblical perspective is that, at Jesus' ascension, the angels said that Jesus would return as his followers saw him go. Acts 1:11:

and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”

reply to post by Akragon

if its set in chronological order, its very possible...

Matthew and Mark aren't written in chronological order. They're written according by themes. Luke is the only gospel written chronologically.

reply to post by Akragon

These are also the same people who use hebews 9:27 as proof that we only live one life... Which also shows they don't know how to read scripture in context either way...

I'm "one of those people". Show me how I don't know how to read Scripture in context.

reply to post by adjensen

so I read that passage the same way that anyone else who's not quote mining reads it, that John is the Elijah for that age, he's playing Elijah's role, as prophesied by Malachi.

Hello Adjensen, Happy New Year!

So, Jesus says that John the Baptist "IS" Elijah, but you say he meant that he was the "spirit of Elijah." What does that mean? Could it mean what Jesus was saying here?

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Wouldn't Elijah qualify here?

What does it mean to "play the role" of Elijah? If God said he was sending Elijah, as he did in Malachi, why would he use an actor?

Personally, I think it's irrational to think that John the Baptist wasn't Elijah.

The message of the Bible is about resurrection, not reincarnation.
[snip]
My religion doesn't have anything to do with it -- reincarnation is an irrational belief

Resurrection is an irrational belief.

I take it that you don't believe in the pre-existence of the soul. But you do believe that the soul is granted eternal life, after living once as a mortal. The quality of that eternal life depends on whether or not one subscribes and practices a certain kind of religion, right?

So, resurrection is the re-animation of the old familiar body to live in forever, either in the Kingdom of Heaven or some place that is not so comfortable.

You have mused that you think the idea is comforting for those who are afraid of Judgment Day, which hasn't come yet. Don't you think that a merciful God would give a soul, destined to eternity, another chance or two at mortality, to learn from their mistakes and have a chance to find "The Way", before sending them into eternal torture.

When Gilgamesh asked Utnapishtim for eternal life, in the Epic of Gilgamesh, he told him, "Gilgamesh, you can't handle eternal life, you still need to sleep to recover from a day of life. How would you be able to stay awake for eternity while you still love your sleep?"

In my opinion, death is a blessing and the loss of memory of past lives allow the soul a fresh start, free of guilt, trauma or sadness, for those who have the gift of eternal life, but just can't handle it!

If the Bible promised eternal life, through the words of Jesus, when does it begin? Now, or after 1000's of years sleeping in the grave. Will we dream? When Jesus comes to resurrect us, will he be like Prince Charming waking Sleeping Beauty from her deep sleep?

I believe that eternity is now. In the end, life time after lifetime, I think our journey will come to an end when we remember and reconcile who we are and have always been. Then, perhaps there will be a "judgment."

Too many people live their lives in a robotic stuper. It wouldn't be just for God to judge the crimes of those who are sleepwalking through life to eternal awareness of torture.