Let's talk about REINCARNATION again....by special request.

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posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by logical7
 


The parable means that everyone gets the same reward, no matter the time they put in.

First you say the universe is not static and now that I agreed with you you call it mumbo jumbo? Come on, that's not fair.


I could say the same thing about you ignoring the eternal universe.
I don't ignore the creation of the universe because I don't believe it was ever created.

i am sorry, i want to be fair, just dont get you.
Eternal universe is an interesting idea, but what happens when i want to think "who made that?"
and we are back to the start!!
My thinking is everything has a beginning.
You on the other hand just closed in and made a loop to solve that problem.
I understand you, hope you too get me.




posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7
 


good enough explanation!! But if you bring cancer in and in general karma then who is doing it? a preset accounting system or the Source, Active?
It has to be a big big big supercomputer to dispense karma.

Well,
yes, it would, wouldn't it?
Hence: "God"
The Source.

sure i definitely agree to that, just said it to prove that God/Source is active and interfering for karma and using punishment as a method of teaching. And a threat of punishment is a less cruel way of teaching than actual punishment, you must have guessed where i am going.. But its off topic
so back, i have more questions about reincarnation, who set the standard of behaviour? I mean killing is wrong, but how the first soul reached that idea? Are we born with a compass but a ignorant soul refuse to follow it? Or we were given some commandments etc so we know? Or both or neither?



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Does god have a beginning? If god is infinitely old then why can't the same logic apply to the universe? Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, the universe is nothing BUT energy, so why is it so hard to believe?



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by logical7
 


Does god have a beginning? If god is infinitely old then why can't the same logic apply to the universe? Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, the universe is nothing BUT energy, so why is it so hard to believe?

ya a good point. I dont mind eternal universe, but i personally like the big bang theory.
What i do mind is making the eternal universe God and vice versa.
That i feel is limiting God, actually you can even eliminate God from that theory, so even atheist would agree to it.
You are left with a network of inter-connected atoms collectively being a generalised super intelligence with specifically intelligent beings at different levels trying to comprehend anything worth understanding.
Like organs in a body trying to understand each other and imagining how the whole body must be.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


The eternal universe (multiverse) can still fit in with the big bang in my opinion. The big bang started as a singularity, a black hole falls into a singularity. It's possible that the two are linked in some way.

The laws of physics break down when approaching the singularity of a black hole. I think this could be because it creates a wormhole to another universe. Basically, when a black hole is formed, another universe is created. All the energy the black hole sucks in pops out the other side in this new universe.

This particular universe may fade away but there will always be other universes. Those universes have billions of black holes each, and each one of those black holes contains another universe with its own set of billions of black holes, etc.

Don't take this as me saying the theory is fact because I have no idea, but I think it makes sense in a way.

The collection of intelligence you mentioned is what I consider to be "god", it knows everything there is to be known. Though we may not understand black holes, the information for them to exist is still with us because they are obviously there, no?
edit on 7-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by logical7
 


The eternal universe (multiverse) can still fit in with the big bang in my opinion. The big bang started as a singularity, a black hole falls into a singularity. It's possible that the two are linked in some way.

The laws of physics break down when approaching the singularity of a black hole. I think this could be because it creates a wormhole to another universe. Basically, when a black hole is formed, another universe is created. All the energy the black hole sucks in pops out the other side in this new universe.

This particular universe may fade away but there will always be other universes. Those universes have billions of black holes each, and each one of those black holes contains another universe with its own set of billions of black holes, etc.

Don't take this as me saying the theory is fact because I have no idea, but I think it makes sense in a way.

The collection of intelligence you mentioned is what I consider to be "god", it knows everything there is to be known. Though we may not understand black holes, the information for them to exist is still with us because they are obviously there, no?

yes black holes exists but its not known if they collapse in this universe just to start a bigbang somewhere else. But a theory sure explains that they just radiate away all their mass and disappear eventually.
Anyways. if multiverse exists we will not be affected by it. To simplify we are just in one universe, but then you have to agree that either the super intelligence extends to those multiverse and so 'god' is more than just our universe otherwise the other universes are in themselves another super intelligence each so we have multigods. So one intelligence giving birth to others but losing touch with them in the process.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


I don't see why it wouldn't extend throughout these other universes, they would still be connected by the black holes.

Again, I don't claim to believe that is true, I just think it's a neat idea that could be possible. There are even scientists working on the model of the theory as we speak so who knows, it might be proven one day, maybe not.



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




The parable means that everyone gets the same reward, no matter what time they put in or what they believe in, in my opinion. Those who grumbled (non-believers) got the same reward as those who were humble (believers).


Actually, another answer to the parable in Matthew 20 (besides the one already given) can be found in Matthew 19...

Matthew 19:

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

In general, those who lived lowly lives as servants to God will have authority in the kingdom of God and many who had power and authority on earth (kings and princes) will come last.

edit on 8-1-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by logical7
 


I don't see why it wouldn't extend throughout these other universes, they would still be connected by the black holes.

Again, I don't claim to believe that is true, I just think it's a neat idea that could be possible. There are even scientists working on the model of the theory as we speak so who knows, it might be proven one day, maybe not.

its very interesting and yes we may not know it ever.
I want to know whats your idea about other parts of reincarnation? Is the ultimate goal to meet the source or just keep getting recycled and do we exist from ever to forever?



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 





Actually, another answer to the parable in Matthew 20 (besides the one already given) can be found in Matthew 19... Matthew 19: 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. In general, those who lived lowly lives as servants to God will have authority in the kingdom of God and many who had power and authority on earth (kings and princes) will come last.

that makes a lot of sense too, in other words, The meek shall inherite the Kingdom.
In islamic teachings all the rulers would be brought to God in shackles and how loose the shackles are, would be based on how just, equal and upright they were to the ones they ruled.



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


who set the standard of behaviour?

I don't know, but it seems to be a universal aspect of people living in society, whether a hunter-gatherer clan or a huge empire.

I mean killing is wrong, but how the first soul reached that idea?

Perhaps that idea is part and parcel of being a soul - one simply 'knows it' - ?

Are we born with a compass but a ignorant soul refuse to follow it?

That idea works for me....

Or we were given some commandments etc so we know? Or both or neither?


I don't know, log.
I don't think humanity was suddenly "calmed down" after Moses or whoever....or that without "commandments" the world wouldn't be like it is.
I think that the value of life is apparent to humans, because we are aware of death looming large over us at all times.

Very interesting questions!



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


In my opinion we meet the "source" each time we die and I think the end result would be us akin to Jesus, someone who's wise and kind and teaches others the secrets to life. Once you reach this "christ conscious" it is your duty to preach peace and love in order to make the world a better place for everyone. And yes, I do believe we reincarnate forever and ever.

This is my opinion of course, I don't think I really "know" anything yet. I still have a ways to go, but I believe I'm on the right path to knowing.



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


I still read it as everyone getting the same reward after this life, no matter if you're a tyrant or a saint. The first being the last and the last first represents us all being One in my opinion.

If we are all One then that means the most evil king and the lowliest beggar are also one, the believer and the non-believer. If a believer is allowed into heaven then so is the un-believer because the two are not separate but the same.

ETA: so since those who have power and authority come last, would that mean the church would be the VERY last ones to reach heaven? They are the most powerful and authoritative establishment in the world.
edit on 8-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



Matthew 19

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."


A camel going through the eye of a needle? Read: impossible. So that means it is even more impossible for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. So since the church is the richest in the world, wouldn't that mean it is impossible for them to get there? Yes!

Because of the churches greed and lies, we are taught that we are not in heaven which has turned us complacent which has turned Earth into a living hell. We are cut off from heaven because of what we have been taught, not because of Adam and Eve.



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by logical7
 


Does god have a beginning?


No. God is the Alpha and Omega; the First and the Last.


If god is infinitely old then why can't the same logic apply to the universe?


The Bible says that God created the heavens and the earth.

Here's how I see it based on the scriptures I'm going to post.

God is the Alpha and Omega and the Provider of all things. Jesus is the Word and the Creator. The Holy Spirit puts it into motion, organizes it and gives it life.

1 John 5:7

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Genesis 1:1-2

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

John 1:1-14

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Psalm 33:6

6 By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.


Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, the universe is nothing BUT energy, so why is it so hard to believe?


God will cause the current heaven and the current earth to pass away and create a new one.

2 Peter 3:10 & 13

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 





I mean killing is wrong, but how the first soul reached that idea? Are we born with a compass but a ignorant soul refuse to follow it?


Yes. The compass is the Holy Spirit and Jesus is the light.

The creation story can explain this too, in my opinion.

Genesis 1:3-4

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Notice that God divided the light from darkness. It does not say that God replaced the darkness with light.

Notice too that light and darkness were separated before the sun and moon were created on the fourth day.

The Bible says that when the current heavens and earth pass away, it is replaced with a new heaven/earth in which there is no darkness and there is only light. The lamb of God is the light therein. There will be no need for separation and there will no longer be a sun or a moon.



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 





A camel going through the eye of a needle? Read: impossible. So that means it is even more impossible for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. So since the church is the richest in the world, wouldn't that mean it is impossible for them to get there? Yes!


The "eye of the needle" was the smaller gate within a larger gate in Jerusalem. The larger gate was closed at night and people could only enter into the city through the smaller gate at night. Not impossible for a camel to go through, but it was much more difficult.

The Bible tells us that the people in authority in the church will be held to a higher standard of judgement come judgement day. I have no doubt that we're going to see many church leaders fall for leading their sheep astray as well as for gathering riches here on earth instead of in heaven.



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



The "eye of the needle" was the smaller gate within a larger gate in Jerusalem. The larger gate was closed at night and people could only enter into the city through the smaller gate at night. Not impossible for a camel to go through, but it was much more difficult.

Interesting!
I've always figured it was meant just as it reads.
Who determined the "eye of the needle" was the 'smaller gate' in the large one?

Still, if it was a "people" door, I don't see how a camel could do it, unless it was a baby camel.

Why does it not just say: "for a camel to pass through the narrow gate"?

Why is it that the "narrow gate" is Jesus when "the way is narrow", but it's not "the narrow gate" for the camel?
Who determined that "eye of the needle" is the narrow gate, AND Jesus is the narrow gate?
edit on 8-1-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


LOL! The chances of a camel making it through the gate are slim because it is STUBBORN!


It was God who determined that Jesus would be the narrow gate, the way, the truth and the life.



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Here's some more testimony from children who remember their past lives.



It seems that where people do believe in reincarnation, people are less likely to be scared or think the children are "demon possessed" because of their memories, and therefore their claims are researched instead of mocked or dismissed as childhood fantasy.
edit on 8-1-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)





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