Let's talk about REINCARNATION again....by special request.

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posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


Does this indicate (I'm trying to understand the "cycles" thing) - that, as some believe - we reincarnate in "groups" - perhaps in different genders or relation to one another (for example, this time I'm my dad's daughter, next time I'm his little brother and he's a girl) - but, we know each other?

This is how it seems to me when I've met certain people and had the "BAM!" feeling of knowing them - from just ONE LOOK into their eyes...
and it seems I've known them - even been "looking for them" - forever?




posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 09:02 AM
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I think, the goal of reincarnation is not to be reborn but to reach Nirvana.

If you are reincarnated that means yous still holding onto something in this world.. whether its love, lust, luxury...etc.

Once you are satisfied with yourself in this world, you will not be reborn but return to astral plains and join the complete consciousness.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by luciddream
 


I agree with you entirely. From what I can discern with the available information; that is precisely the objective.

Perhaps those who feel they are "done" really are? (I know my mom doesn't want to have to come back, much like many people on here)..... And those of us who would like another go-round are not quite "done"?

Maybe once we're close to achieving it - or on the last lesson - like a grad student who has only one more class which they can knock out easily in summer-semester before "graduating" - we sorta KNOW we're nearly done?

When I was a grad student, my professors suggested several times that I might consider going for my Doctorate...
but I felt like, uh, no. Thanks. I'm good with just this masters.

Now, however, sometimes I do think about it.....
jumping back into the fray and working up some dissertation ....
I don't know.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here.


I don't think it's nearly as absurd as a guy walking on water, but to each his own I guess.
edit on 7-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





I think reincarnation is to the soul as "foresight" and "hindsight" are to us in this earthly cycle -

if soul accumulates all hindsight and projects it to us as intution then we should become better after each cycle unless we still have a choice not to consider that intution. Then it just becomes an endless cycle. And we do have a choice. Then there must be something else other than accumulated hindsight that drives a person to respect that intution.
Or its just that intution and sooner or later everyone will catch up even if some deny that intution, they'l just take more cycles.
This means the system is rigged for everyone to win. Its just a matter of time.
It makes me wonder, whats the purpose??
It also means that a murderer cant be judged as bad, that poor soul just havent learned that killing is wrong, same for rapists, greedy bankers, religious extremists etc. And the criminals shouldnt be punished because then we are interfering with karma. Maybe we all were murderers before we became better to know that its wrong. A society based on this kind of thinking will collapse within a century!!



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Or its just that intution and sooner or later everyone will catch up even if some deny that intution, they'l just take more cycles.
This means the system is rigged for everyone to win. Its just a matter of time.
It makes me wonder, whats the purpose??

YES!


That's IT!!

The purpose is so that once we're all reunited, we can get along and enjoy bliss and appreciate one another without the encumbrances of uncomfortable emotions that we all feel - jealousy, avarice, lust, guilt, pride, anger, etc.

I'm SO GLAD you hung in here - this thread was for "you", remember??



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


It also means that a murderer cant be judged as bad, that poor soul just havent learned that killing is wrong, same for rapists, greedy bankers, religious extremists etc. And the criminals shouldnt be punished because then we are interfering with karma. Maybe we all were murderers before we became better to know that its wrong. A society based on this kind of thinking will collapse within a century!!

Okay, now I read the rest of your post....
(I got a little excited there to see you were able to comprehend what we're talking about here...)

The point is COMPASSION. The murderer did a "bad" thing; he harmed another human being. It is natural for others to "correct" this behavior by pointing out to him or her that what they did was HARMFUL - and INAPPROPRIATE - although to say it's "unacceptable" would be judging. We have to accept that they DID murder someone; so, we can't just "wish it away" or "moralize it away". What's done has been done.

Criminals should be held ACCOUNTABLE for their transgressions, to own up to what they did, and hopefully learn in THIS lifetime that it musn't be done again.

Living in a society comes with its own sort of instant "karma" - none of us WANTS to be judged by others; but we are, from time to time.

I don't think a society would collapse, no. We're not talking about anarchy and depravity as being "allowed" with no consequences. It is impossible to have a "society" where "anything goes" including murder, etc. with no CONSEQUENCES.

But, some karmic debt is not settled before death; and perhaps there are people who keep screwing up over and over again, from lifetime to lifetime. Maybe it just takes SEVERAL times of the consequence hitting them before they "get it."
???
Again, I don't know. This is all based on my own studies, meditations, imaginings, and seeking.....



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


log7,
Did you watch the video that windword posted a page back or so??

It was very interesting, and addressed the idea of how difficult it is to "prove" the idea...

It spoke about Tibetan Buddhists (the Dalai Lama even spoke about halfway through) - Hindus, and even a sect of ISLAM, in Turkey, who believe in reincarnation.
Were you aware there was a Muslim Sect that believed this?



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


yes i remember and thanks again, i am following it, some of my questions have been answered and some not,
for reincarnation to reach its purpose, the world has to be perfect. So will it passively just reach that point after eons or the better souls have to actively make it happen, i believe its latter as the best way for 'evil' to win is good people doing nothing.
But then we are interfering with karma, i propose that actually the good/learned souls punishing, are a way of karma to make ignorant souls learn. And in example of murderer, capital punishment is must otherwise karma will have to keep making a murderer just to punish a murderer in his next life.
So a society should be established that has a complete karmic justice system, also absolute no tolerance for immoral behaviour and ensuring equality and respect for each individual.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7
 


log7,
Did you watch the video that windword posted a page back or so??

It was very interesting, and addressed the idea of how difficult it is to "prove" the idea...

It spoke about Tibetan Buddhists (the Dalai Lama even spoke about halfway through) - Hindus, and even a sect of ISLAM, in Turkey, who believe in reincarnation.
Were you aware there was a Muslim Sect that believed this?

no i wasnt aware. I'l watch the video. Thanx.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


If you open to the branch of reincarnation where you could be born as anything (insects, animals, birds).. then the Karmic system would be perfect.

Your reincarnation host body depends on what you did in previous life. Something like murderers would be born as worms... or something.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


i propose that actually the good/learned souls punishing, are a way of karma to make ignorant souls learn. And in example of murderer, capital punishment is must otherwise karma will have to keep making a murderer just to punish a murderer in his next life.
So a society should be established that has a complete karmic justice system, also absolute no tolerance for immoral behaviour and ensuring equality and respect for each individual.


I agree with you in terms of the best way for 'evil' to win:
as in the words of Dr Martin Luther King, Jr:

"Our lives begin to end the day that we remain silent about things that matter."

But - the karmic justice can't be administered by HUMANS upon HUMANS to the extent of those gravest of transgressions - that makes the person "hitting the switch" or "injecting the needle", or the hang-man or the people throwing stones just as bad as the person they are "punishing." That way it DOES seem to be an endless cycle of "an eye for an eye" type of thing.

I believe we, as humans, are UNABLE to totally separate ourselves from our emotions. We all get angry once in a while - we will come across some people who makes us furious by their behaviors, but we don't turn around and kill them. We must learn to MANAGE our uncomfortable emotions, not to ACT OUT on them.

I do think it will take eons - but the "better place" is where EVERYONE has learned the lessons, and lives in harmony.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 10:38 AM
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I'm going to re-post a video from earlier in the thread. It's a really wonderful video and I recommend everyone watch it. Maybe it'll add to the discussion a bit.




posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


i agree with your points, but what about a murderer existing to just teach a lesson to a previous life murderer. How will that loop end? Unless the last murderer does it for justice and so the killing doesnt taints his soul. And a rapist learning a lesson without turning into a girl in next cycle and being raped but again a rapist is required and no man can rape for justice, thats just sick! So a rapist has to be taught a lesson some other way.
I understand that nobody can claim to be morally superior to dispense justice for every tiny error. But a justice system at some level is a must for a good society.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by logical7
 


If you open to the branch of reincarnation where you could be born as anything (insects, animals, birds).. then the Karmic system would be perfect.

Your reincarnation host body depends on what you did in previous life. Something like murderers would be born as worms... or something.

and then die but thats not karma unless you think that a worm is lowly and humans better. Also it makes me a murderer if i squish a worm then i killed a soul and i'l be born as a worm and the same loop continues..
Also i would have to become vegetarian.
And if you are just suggesting it, its fine but if you believe it then i hope your are vegetarian.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by logical7
 


If you open to the branch of reincarnation where you could be born as anything (insects, animals, birds).. then the Karmic system would be perfect.

Your reincarnation host body depends on what you did in previous life. Something like murderers would be born as worms... or something.

and then die but thats not karma unless you think that a worm is lowly and humans better. Also it makes me a murderer if i squish a worm then i killed a soul and i'l be born as a worm and the same loop continues..
Also i would have to become vegetarian.
And if you are just suggesting it, its fine but if you believe it then i hope your are vegetarian.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I'm going to re-post a video from earlier in the thread. It's a really wonderful video and I recommend everyone watch it. Maybe it'll add to the discussion a bit.



i watched it. There is a sudden jump in philosophy.
The All sustains us > you are the All?!!!
Or am i a part of that All. But as that All existed before me and will exist after so i need the All but the All is self sufficient and doesnt need me at all.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by logical7
 


If you open to the branch of reincarnation where you could be born as anything (insects, animals, birds).. then the Karmic system would be perfect.

Your reincarnation host body depends on what you did in previous life. Something like murderers would be born as worms... or something.

and then die but thats not karma unless you think that a worm is lowly and humans better. Also it makes me a murderer if i squish a worm then i killed a soul and i'l be born as a worm and the same loop continues..
Also i would have to become vegetarian.
And if you are just suggesting it, its fine but if you believe it then i hope your are vegetarian.


I do not mean Worm is a lowly creature, as in value of life, but it will be a creature that will be short lived and suffer from more predators than humans would. I'm pretty sure Karma is exempt if you did it without knowing(there is a limit), but stepping on a worm without releasing will not be your fault, but it would the fate of the worm.

Hurting something with an intend would give you bad karma, and expecting something in return while doing something good would also not give you "karma points".



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


The All didn't exist before you because you have been here for eternity, only as different people and different places.

It is true that the All does not "require" your current incarnation to exist but it does need something to perceive in order for it to exist. We are all One with existence.

Without us, as in consciousness, there would be no reason for the universe to exist because life would not exist to perceive it. The All is self sustaining just as we are self sustaining. We (the All) require the All to sustain our life, hence self sustaining. The All contains everything and is everything, so you requiring the All to exist is the All requiring the All.

Hopefully that makes sense.
edit on 7-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by luciddream
 





I do not mean Worm is a lowly creature, as in value of life, but it will be a creature that will be short lived and suffer from more predators than humans would. I'm pretty sure Karma is exempt if you did it without knowing(there is a limit), but stepping on a worm without releasing will not be your fault, but it would the fate of the worm. Hurting something with an intend would give you bad karma, and expecting something in return while doing something good would also not give you "karma points".

so you are saying that we pay our bad karma by being made animals,worms etc. And return to human form again. But then animals/worms existed before humans, prepaid karma? Or i should assume that a soul just went back in time to suffer. Also shouldnt a murderer suffer like the victim suffered in human form? And what makes a murderer in the first place? As that human must have been a good soul to deserve being a human.
Also the vegetarian part stays, i have to respect each living being as i respect myself.





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