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Let's talk about REINCARNATION again....by special request.

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posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by windword
 


Here's more...

Isaiah 40:31

31 But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Revelation 21:4

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Philippians 3:21

21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1 Corinthians 15:52-54

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Revelation 22:1-3

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Mark 14:25

25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

Matthew 17:1-3

1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.




posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by windword

Jesus was resurrected in his own flesh and blood body. Where is the evidence of the Saints' resurrected bodies? When does this resurrection, supposedly take place?


Jesus came to his disciples in a way that they would recognize him, but not in the same body. Our bodies will return to the dust of the ground and we'll be given new bodies.

John 20:24-28

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

The fact that Jesus came and "stood in the midst" even with the "doors being shut" is significant in describing what his abilities were.

John 20:30

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:


That does nothing to answer my question. It, actually just proves that Jesus was still in his earthly body of flesh and bones and still bore the wounds of his ordeal. He was alive, not a walking "living dead zombie."



The new and resurrected body won't age? What age will it appear to be? The age of our death or some other age? Will there be children and grandparents in heaven?


The Bible doesn't tell us what age we will be it only tells us over and over that the body will be "incorruptible" and incapable of death, so there is no need to age.


Jesus does say that what is bound on earth will be bound in heaven and what is loosed on earth will be loosed in heaven. So, alcoholics and homosexuals will be acting out in heaven!



This eating thing that you speak of, why? Why would we need or want to eat? Will we poop and pee in heaven?


Eating has always been a breaking of bread, bonding and social experience for people. This will not change in heaven.

Revelation 21 & 22 tell us about the river of life and the tree of life being in heaven and other trees along the river. It may be figurative, but since we know that Jesus was able to eat, we will be able to do that as well. Our bodies will not be designed the same way obviously, so no, I don't think we'll be pooping and peeing.


Why is it written that Jesus ate fish and honeycomb, after his resurrection? Did he need nutrition. after his epic ordeal?


No nutrition needed. Our bodies will be "incorruptible". We will not go hungry and we will not thirst. We won't need to eat, but we'll be able to do so if we choose.


Why would we choose to? Why would we have cravings?




Will there be the killing of animals and robbing of trees, birds and bees for food in heaven?


There will be no need to.


Why didn't Jesus manifest and eat "manna from heaven" and manifest Ambrosia, the nectar of the gods, to drink, like he did at the infamous wedding miracle?


He was no longer "human", but the full extent of what he showed to his disciples is not known based on all of the accounts of Jesus' appearance to his disciples.


Jesus made a big deal out of making sure that the people knew that he was flesh and blood. He was human!


Where is the Kingdom of Heaven? Why did Jesus say that is it being attacked violently?


The book of Matthew is the only book that uses the term "kingdom of heaven" to also refer to the nation of Israel.

You mean like this?


“Therefore, I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and will be given to a people who will produce fruit.”



I don't know why, other than the fact that during the Millennium here on earth, the existence will be very similar to that of heaven in mannerism, but not physically (people will still multiply, age and die during this period). After the Millennium is over and the current earth is replaced with the "New Jerusalem" there will not be a sun, moon or oceans like there is now.


I don't pay attention to the ravings and hallucinations of an old man who was exiled and lived in cave to inform me of what to expect in my next life.

The resurrection of Jesus is in no way an example of you claim to expect in the next life.



edit on 5-1-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by windword
 


As far as Matthew 21:43

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The answer can be found in Matthew 21:45

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

The gospel of the kingdom of God was taken away from the chief priests and Pharisees and given to the apostles to spread throughout the world and the rest of the gentile nations.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by windword
 





That does nothing to answer my question. It, actually just proves that Jesus was still in his earthly body of flesh and bones and still bore the wounds of his ordeal. He was alive, not a walking "living dead zombie."


Likewise, I don't understand why you can't comprehend the definition of "transfigured" as used in Matthew 17:2.

We know that angels are capable of transfiguring into human form, so why can't Christ? Remember the verses we were talking about (in another thread) in the old testament about "men" communing with Abraham that turned out to be angels and Lot calling one of them Lord? See how they are referenced differently between Genesis 17, 18 and 19? I think this answers our question on their abilities as well as the ones we will inherit.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 





We know that angels are capable of transfiguring into human form, so why can't Christ? Remember the verses we were talking about (in another thread) in the old testament about "men" communing with Abraham that turned out to be angels and Lot calling one of them Lord? See how they are referenced differently between Genesis 17, 18 and 19? I think this answers our question on their abilities as well as the ones we will inherit.


I don't believe that Jesus is "Christ." I don't believe that he died on the cross or rose from the dead. I don't know anything about angels transfiguring.

I don't believe that that was God that sat down and ate cakes and BBQ with Abraham. I don't know what, who or if they were even really real. It's a story, not truth!

It's important to understand that the Bible is a version of who and what MEN thought that "GOD" was all about. It's not the definitive answer or reality of what is TRUE.

We're discussing reincarnation, and the discussion has taken a turn to ask the question "Does the Bible support reincarnation. The answer is that it does, in some places, not in others.

I don't care what the Bible says about reincarnation because I have my own reasons to believe what I believe without needing the Bible to confirm it.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by windword
 


As far as Matthew 21:43

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The answer can be found in Matthew 21:45

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

The gospel of the kingdom of God was taken away from the chief priests and Pharisees and given to the apostles to spread throughout the world and the rest of the gentile nations.





Okay, so then maybe you can show where me where Jesus says that the Kingdom of Heaven is Israel.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


Maybe this link will help in understanding. It's lists verses from Jesus.

"Israel Becomes The Kingdom of God on Earth"

www.antipas.org...

This is what is called the Millennial period or the Millennium.

After God sets up his kingdom on earth for 1,000 years, it will all end and a new heaven/earth is put in it's place.

However, I still can't explain why Matthew used the term "kingdom of heaven" instead of "kingdom of God" like the others did. I can only assume it's because it will be like heaven on earth for Israel during the Millennium.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


All that is about the god Yahweh, and how Israel is his charge, his inheritance, the Kingdom of (the) God (Yahweh).



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


We know that angels are capable of transfiguring into human form, so why can't Christ?

Dee,
I realize you've chosen not to respond to my replies to you, but....
we don't KNOW that angels are capable of transfiguring.

Have you seen one do this?

I agree with windword on these matters.
You say she is unable to "comprehend".....
but you hold out "the Bible" as your only source. None of the Bible's stories (aside from the possible historical locations and/or destruction of cities) can be "known" to be true....

Are you unable to comprehend that others do not use the Bible as the ultimate source?

That we need more than scriptures to back up our ideas?
I don't mean to be slamming you; but, scripture and "we know" do not add up. Scripture is scripture. We KNOW the earth revolves around the sun. We KNOW that the Romans and Jews had issues. We do not KNOW that Jesus resurrected and ascended.

We do not KNOW that graves opened up.
We do not KNOW that Moses found some tablet with the "commandments" on it....

Some people believe the Bible. Others do not, for good reason.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 02:08 PM
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Imo the Bible has so many interpretations to its allegories that it is almost impossible to reach a consensus. So much has been distorted and twisted through the times that you can't consider it as the only source of information.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


You asked me a question and I answered it. I'm not sure I understand why you are repeating yourself. What kind of answer were you looking for?

Matthew 19:28

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 1:31-33

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luke 24:44

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I've responded to your questions. If I haven't responded to one of your replies, it's only because I've already answered the questions that you have asked.

What I post in the form of scripture is how I see it, otherwise, I wouldn't have posted it (even though I've researched all of the other religions beliefs on the matter).

I believe that reincarnation experiences are the same as ghostly/dead experiences. They are all spirits from below trying to confuse beliefs so that no one can claim for sure what's true. Satan is the father of lies. That's why we need the Holy Spirit to help determine what's true.

There's a spiritual warfare going on.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


What I post in the form of scripture is how I see it, otherwise, I wouldn't have posted it (even though I've researched all of the other religions beliefs on the matter).

I believe that reincarnation experiences are the same as ghostly/dead experiences. They are all spirits from below trying to confuse beliefs so that no one can claim for sure what's true. Satan is the father of lies. That's why we need the Holy Spirit to help determine what's true.

There's a spiritual warfare going on.


Thank you, Deetermined, for this post.
I have earnestly been trying to wrap my brain around this sort of thing.

So. The reincarnation experience in little kids......I mean, them remembering their former life, including job, family members, house, etc.......is a spirit from below? Is that your meaning?

(Sorry, I'm a pedantic weirdo about 'choice of words'... but, honestly, I'd appreciate another equivalent analogy-explanation.....?)

So, a child spontaneously knowing the names and addresses and details from his former lifetime, is to be presumed as 'possessed'?

Have you ever felt the presence - or seen evidence of - a ghost?
I have.

edit on 5-1-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



Forgive me for saying this, Akragon, but you interpret most Bible verses entirely different than the biblical scholars, but you already know that.


You're forgiven..


Of course you're talking about "Christian" scholars... in which case, im good with that...


As for the "heavenly body" or incorruptible body, if you read the story of Jesus coming to the disciples after his resurrection, you'll get a pretty good idea of what it's going to be like.


based on that idea, im sure the pins in my shoulder will still be there right?

I have a friend that's missing a finger.... that won't be present either... correct?


- The body can appear and disappear at will (and transform)
- You will be able to eat and drink
- The body won't age
- The body won't get sick
- The body doesn't require sleep


We'll be able to transform eh? lol...

Now that is news to me... kinda sounds like reincarnation actually... Or wait, do you mean I could be a sparrow if I wanted, and fly around in heaven?

Would you mind presenting the passages within your book that tell you these things?

Or is this just another one of your assumptions?


Nothing?

Satan is mentioned 49 times in the Bible and that's not even counting the other names such as "prince of the air", "god of this world", etc..


Yes... hes mentioned... but what do you know about him?

What does he look like... aside from being "Gods most beautiful angel" which is extremely vague....

Does he have hair?

How tall is he?

Does he have sexy muscles?

Can he fly? Or transform like I will be able to do according to you? (I must say I look forward to that)

Is he red? Have a pitch fork?

I admit your assumptions are quite amusing...


I think you don't know much about Satan or the Bible because you don't read it.


Ahh... yes... can't figure out a decent argument with out assumptions... so you resort to insults

Please don't act like a typical Christian...

I've probably read the book as many if not more times then you have... the difference is I don't look at the OT as having much truth in it, while the gospels are truth... and I don't have any religious influence looking over my shoulder... which is how I come to obvious conclusions that you just can't figure out

Look at my threads.... at least 70% of them are based on the bible in some way...

Grow up a bit will you please?

:shk:
edit on 5-1-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



2 Corinthians 11
12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.


The greatest trick Satan ever played on mankind is making us believe, without doubt or question, that he is GOD.

What Paul is doing in this verse is trying to convince readers that he himself is not who he speaks of. If he called Satan out, then it couldn't be him, right? Wrong. That is the exact kind of tactic the "father of lies" would use. Paul is one of these false apostles he seems to be throwing under the bus. He deflects attention off of himself by implying that he is not who he speaks of.

What better way to control people than to tell them if they don't do what they say then they go to a place where they are tortured forever and ever and EVER? What kind of loving father would condemn his children to such a place? For ANY reason, much less not believing in something?

Jesus taught reincarnation which is exactly why he was murdered. It's a lot harder to control someone when they do not fear death, the Romans knew this so they killed him then changed his message to faith and salvation. Rome was infamous for forcing others to join their conquest, why would it be any different for religion, the biggest business in the world? Yes, it is a business that was established for the sole purpose of making money. It's highly profitable to be close friends with god, ask all the preachers and pastors who drive million dollar Bentley's and live in mansions.

edit on 5-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





So, a child spontaneously knowing the names and addresses and details from his former lifetime, is to be presumed as 'possessed'?

Have you ever felt the presence - or seen evidence of - a ghost? I have.


I think demons are very cunning in how they work and can feed information to anyone without them being considered "possessed". I would only think that someone was possessed if it affected every area of someone's life negatively 24/7, but I think they mostly come and go. If you want more detailed information on how demons affect children, I can give you the name of someone here on ATS through PM if you want to look into it further. I can give you the name of another thread that someone else wrote about an experience that happened to their child in the Gray Area as well.

Personally, I have never had a physical experience with a "ghost" from a deceased, but I think that's because I've never believed, wanted or tried to reach someone that's been deceased. However, there have been times when I have had dreams or pesky signals while I'm awake that have led me to inquire about people I know after they have passed on without knowing otherwise.

Just an example: Twenty years ago I was in a relationship with someone I almost married, but hadn't seen or talked to in many years. A couple of years ago, while I was on Facebook, I noticed that this ex-boyfriend's boss' profile picture kept popping up on my screen as a suggestion that I should "friend" him. You know how that works when you have "mutual friends" you get bombarded by suggestions of "people you might know". The thing is, these suggestions usually rotate and different ones come up every time you log on. However, this person's pic must have popped up every day on my FB screen for two months. Finally, I thought to myself, what's up with that? It kept reminding me of my ex-boyfriend from all those years back, so I decided to do a Google search on him to see whatever happened to him. Turns out he died in a tragic accident shortly before these little "messages" started appearing. Needless to say, I called his boss to get the full scoop on what happened. Little things like that happen a lot to me.

My mother has been having strange experiences lately. Her husband is new to spiritual life and they had a rather deep spiritual discussion the other night. The next morning, she went to the bathroom to get showered and dressed when she felt a presence walk past her and saw a beige blurred form pass behind her while she was looking in the mirror. She just assumed it was her husband and started talking to him while she was turning around, only to realize that there was no one there. This is the second time this has happened to her in the last few months. I think these kinds of experiences manifest themselves more in places when there are people new to spiritual life or who sit on the fence in their beliefs, but that's just my opinion and observation from research and listening to others.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 





based on that idea, im sure the pins in my shoulder will still be there right?

I have a friend that's missing a finger.... that won't be present either... correct?


This is just my opinion, but I think Jesus only showed up to his disciples with marks in his hands and side because that's what the disciples (or at least Thomas) said they needed to see in order to believe it was him.

Incorruptible bodies will be made whole without scars from this life.

I figure if Jesus can walk through doors or mystically appear in his new body, he can heal and hide his own wounds whenever he chooses.

By the time we all have our incorruptible bodies, Jesus won't need to prove anything to anyone any more.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


I don't think he really needs to prove anything as it stands...

Not everyone is meant to understand him...

He said "my sheep hear my voice"




posted on Jan, 6 2013 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 





Jesus taught reincarnation which is exactly why he was murdered.


Jesus wasn't killed for teaching reincarnation or resurrection.

He was killed for claiming to be one with God.

John 10:30-33

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.



edit on 6-1-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2013 @ 06:53 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


oh dear... how many times do I have to go though this passage with Christians on this site...

*sigh*

He did NOT claim to be God.... EVER!

Don't stop reading there... keep going for heaven's sake!

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Notice the question mark? That means he is questioning their statement...

because as I've said...

He did not claim to be God... Not once!

that is a myth and a lie propagated by the founders of your religion

Any association with God to someone from the jewish religion is considered blasphemy... that's why even to this day... they will not say God or even type it... Find someone from that religion on this or any other site and you will notice they will always type G-d.

He claimed to be the son of God... Not God in the flesh...

John said that.... Jesus did not..

:bnghd:

Glad you edited the "one with" God part into that statement by the way...

That is correct... but of course that wasn't the only reason he was executed
edit on 6-1-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)





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