I think that the US is doing much harm in Iraq. War should always be the LAST resort.
Any weapons (initial reason)...no.
Oil... sure is. You may not see figures on teir gains in oil, but that is because it is profiting the countries investors, and large corperations.
When the US entered, cleared out those "thoulsands of terrorists" sothey claim.. they started pumping all the black gold. Ofcourse they would bring
in a few helpers here and there, to make it look like a 'liberational effort", but what they loose on those helpers, they gain 2-3 times as much on
the oil. Ofcourse we can't ruin America's image, lets send them a present after the damage we have caused.
I have killed some of their claims and figures from earlier (when I couldn't spell
), have a read:
"I have overlooked this debate again, and Lazaretto, i have found your strongest points.....
"* School attendance is up 80% since before the war."
Before which war? The gulf war? or this current war?
another query about this is that we must remember that before America's involvement, Iraq was a VERY RICH COUNTRY. Being 2nd in the world with
'oil' exports is not too shabby at all! If Sadaam wanted an army, he would (appart from possibly a few others) firstly look at a good education
"* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and gotten rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur."
I want to know exactly where you got this information from.
"* The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster."
Iraq was an Extremely stable country before america, once again i bring up the profitts from its oil factories... It may have needed that port to
obtain imports, (grain) as you mentioned, yet they could have had deals made with Kazakstan, (a very strong grain producer), along with their own
"* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August."
first? are you certain?
" Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq."
This is complete nonsence, in a country as economically stable and strong as Iraq, its quite possible for a below-average member to recieve water
" The country now receives two times the electrical power it did before the war."
Wohohow your going down
Current Iraqi electric facilities are mostly of a 'soviet' origin, it is (well, should be) well known that it would take at leats a couple of years,
if not 10's to build an electric station, This war has been lasting 1/2 a year, so appart from america's false bombings that may have damaged some,
where did the electricity come from? It is possible that electric stations are being built, but it is NOT possible to extract electricity from an
unfinnished station, much as it is impossible to extract many apples from a apple seed
" 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war."
Once again, which war? and this is compared to what?
If Iraq had 50 hospitals with 1/2 the staff, and now (after this current war) has 25 (due to bombings) with full staff, mathematically, it is the
More figures are required for this statement, and explinations....its the same as me saying, " ok 5, not convinced? , how about 7, or 8 even?" no
" Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place. "
May i remind you that before this current war, Iraq was a democracy, Sadaam was a president, meanning that elections took place
-----abit off topic here, I know of a girl (this is completely true) that was russian, and moved to live in iraq for 4 years, later she returned,
(before this current war) and was asked to write an essay about iraq, (everyone expected her to write much as america's propaganda states) yet they
were surprised at her writing about how Sadaam (Yes, this 'evil dictator') being like a farthre to his people. (and not because the books there
statted so) this was a free speech exersise, this girl actually Lived among them for 4 Years, and these were her sayings. Her teacher got that article
published in many magazines in london, and people were shocked. -----------
" Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city."
By who i am interested, By the american soldiers?
And who is to say that the cities didn't have a good system back then? Before writing anything against this, you must keep in mind that before this
current, and the gulf war, Iraq was Extremely wealthy country.
" Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets."
once more, compared to what? what if there were more before this attack?
and once more '9 are you convinced?'
" Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defence police are securing the country."
like a broken record here, compared to how many?
also, would they really need this many to control if not for america, think what you will of that.
" Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side US soldiers."
again, would they need to If?
" Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever."
now that is a random, useless fact if i see it right?
Iraq (once again) was wealthy, VERY wealthy, and even more than australia, dont you think that they could afford a few phones? + I dought that Sadaam
was specifically prohibiting the imports of fones to his people.
" Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs. "
And when european settlers came here, they taught the aboriginees how to farm etc. for them, does that really make the aboriginees seem like they
couldn't get food? see the relation?
" An interim constitution has been signed. "
which was made by ????? yup, America.
"* Girls are allowed to attend school."
This statement is completely false, Iraq and Iran have been more generous to femail members than the rest of the middle east region, girls did not
have to wear Vails, and had absolutely equal opportunities as the boys in Iraq.
Also, (an unrelayed point) Iraq was tollerant to all religeons (unlike places like saudi arabia) and there was much leanway with religeon.
" Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years. [Before this, Saddam was frequently mentioned, as he had
set himself in a super-hero like standing, much as Stalin had in his USSR.] "
It is complete nonsence that Sadaam was mentioned in every schoolbook, also it is complete nonsence that stalin was, yet this topic is not about
I wont trouble myself with specific details (which i have), but i will bring forth an example:
In maths books, they would not have " a(sadaam) b(iraq + people) c(utopia), so a+b=c)
"Do any of you recall hearing/reading about the celebrations when the US/coalition forces liberated Afghan cities and towns from the Taliban? People
were digging up their TVs and VCRs, which they had to hide from the Taliban. "
My theory is that three was no Taliban In afganistan before america came. They, (knowing american forces were there) they arrived, began havvoc and
tortures of the american soldiers, and unfortunately it looks as this is Iraq's fate later on.
"One of the reasons the death toll in Iraq is so high is because they're bombing their own people. Now who do you think is the bigger terrorist?
I think that they are trying to bring attention to their situation )a
trying to scare america off)b
and trying to get as many american casualties as possible )c
"The Iraqis, themselves, always pause to curb their comments with "we will always be eternally grateful that the Americans liberated us."
IF this was the case, (and i expect this answered) Why do you think that Iraqi people are capturing forigners, and killing them on tape? you mentioned
"In fact the Iraqis themselves WANT the American army in Iraq. The governing council voted unanimously to keep Coalition troops in Iraq indefinetly.
and these 'unanimous' results were set up and cast by who???????? right again! America, offcourse they (americans, and the seleted few
pro-americans in iraq) would vote unanimously, so explain all the killings on tape?
"I find it interesting that, with Saddam having had over 10 years and more than twice that in practice in hiding his weapons of mass destruction,
that you expect them to be found in a matter of months. Realistically, the US is busy doing a lot more than just looking for chemical warheads -
they're rebuilding a country.
(unrelated) ok, Iraq in this case was a "Damocracy" yes, thats right.... Iraq was more democratic than britain and therefore australia is today.
Practically looking at things, britain is supposed to be a democracy? Well there is a queen..remember her? She nominates a govenor general, and he can
decide upon anyhing australia does, even in these upcoming elections. So, australia is a constitutional part of a higher monarchy..
In Iraq, the next president or whatever, was set to NOT be sadaam's son or daughter (yet it was not prohibited), but anyone at all from the whole
(related) ok, this may be the hardest for me, so hear me out... It Is Not Easy To Make A 'Weapon Of Mass Destruction'! This takes many Skilled,
Qualified workers, Factories, Materials, Equipment. I mean Geez, you could look up on the net how to make an attom bomb, but try do it. Making an atom
bomb was as easy for sadaam (if at all which i doubt) than it would be for you to make a working car, with your bear hands. And knowing this, you
must come to the conclusion that such a project would be easier to reveal than hide...
My personal theory is that onbly after america found out that iraq did NOT have 'weapons of mass destruction' did they enter, because if they did,
guess where they are being aimed? BING BING BING, America...
I'll let you think about those facts and come to your own conclusions...
a little more---
If america was so 'gratious' towards iraq, why did they undress them and put on collars like animals (that they thought they were ) and put it on
I will bring anothew point at hand---
*But do you suggest that we wait around for the terrorists to attack, and not do anything to try to stop them at their source? There's always a way
around any defence, the only way to stop terrorism is to get rid of it. And the only way to get rid of it is to kill or capture terrorists. And when
the terrorists love to do things like make mosques and hospitals into bunkers, well there's not much choice in the matter of killing civilians.
Firstly, What is this 'sourse' which you speak of? A country can not represent a 'way of life' such as terrorism, no more than a country can
represent people who play tennis... If tomorow (as an example) you awoke to find that anyone who hates tennis is evil, and we must get to their
source, where would you look?
it is stupid to look at a particular country, because, and correct me if i'm wrong, but anyone who opposes america, is potentially a
terrorist..having said this, what country are terrorists lurcking in?
Looking for potential terrorists is no different than looking for aethists, they cannot have a set 'front' or 'stronghold', the idea is
So how do you expect us to 'act' knowing this?
This is another reason why the whole idea of 'the war against terror' is preposterous, and, EVEN IFF SOMEHOW all the terrorists came to afganistan
or whatever, what is to say that they will stay there and wait to all be dealt wih at once? this idea is nonsence.
Now this is interesting... Already on australian news it is shown that head of CIA weapon search comity confirms that no weapons of mass destruction
have been found, nor are they expected to be found at all. This mildly renders the American reason from Iraq's invasion (as they called it in the
news) as false. I think soon the truth will come out about all this stuff, somehow, untill then, believe what you want.
*The UN simply stated they couldnt find anything. As a said before, pre-9/11 was even less then rumors, would u have acted? The CIA said they had
informatns, data and some aerial phographs of Iraq.
-Even so, you cannot deny that America had no NO place within Iraq. This was a war against terrorists (which America itsself saw as being in
Afganistan). So why attack Iraq?
I see that as being answered as
a)their black gold (oil)
b)to divert attention from dying progress in Afganistan
c)to once again 'show america's might' (even though to me its cowardness)
d)to set up a front in the middle east to carry out anything they may need in the future.
These are all old posts of mine...
I see it now as, the US is tryin to hold up a tree for as long as they possibly can. They have so much cement. Too much cement, and the tree dies...
too little and it falls over..
The bottom line is, this war is Unjustified, and the world should never have let the US invade Iraq.