Obama Administration: We Can and Will Force Christians to Act Against Their Faith

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posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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To me the answer lies with the people - NO ONE that agrees with hobby lobby has to work there.

We don't need the government for everything, do we?

Of course it would all be so much easier if all the jobs- especially the good paying jobs- available these days were not government jobs...

I'm not Christian, but I don't much like this sort of stance.
I think that when it comes to birth control, the morning after pill- all the reproductive things, and like, I dunno diet oddities (can't eat pork, ect) that people should just let people be.

I don't think the govt should be much involved in those things.
Who am I kidding though, I don't even like the idea of CPS or social services.

I do like the idea of 1 payer health care system though. I guess because we don't have- and can't seem to get- insurance.

Everything was easier before the big corporations took over and ran everyone that wasn't one of them out of business.




posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Are you saying a corporation can practice religion? Is it you or your business that prays?

We, as individuals, have the same individual human rights despite this ruling. We can go home and do whatever we wish in regards to faith, but by operating as a corporation responsible for employees, rules must be followed. If a corporation doesn't want to bend itself to meet the demands of its secular employees, it should discriminate and hire only Christians.

edit on 31-12-2012 by TheSubversiveOne because: grammar

Like I replied to the other one. The State of Missouri outlawed the establishment of Insurance Exchanges or enforcement of provisions of The Affordable Care Act within our state. Further, that included the prohibition of any enforcement action taken AGAINST any resident of the State of Missouri for failing to comply with any part of the Obamacare Package.

You may represent a good % of the nation. That's fine....this is breaking down into state's rights in a real hurry though. Particularly if Obama wants to play push/shove. Well.... State Constitutional Amendment doesn't just get pushed aside and ignored ... and Missouri is among a good number who WILL stand together as a block if it comes to that. We're well outside personal opinions on all this and into major issues of States right to self determination and what the 10th actually means

...........If we're actually willing to shred the 1st for religion at the Federal Level.

Fortunately, Obama's zeal to run things his way or no way ....will be NO way in enough states to break his little national system ...and fairly quickly too. It NEEDS all 50 states which, now, cannot even legally participate if they want to, and they absolutely do not want to. We'll see how this turns out in the end...but it's going to be one titanic fight when State Governments who will NOT back down ...meet Federal Government who is determined to enforce their will at any cost.
edit on 31-12-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 02:50 AM
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It actually happened wow.


Don't worry, God doesn't care if we keep breaking His Law and ignoring His Church. He never did anything before right?

Contraceptives?

Wait till you see what we get for all those abortions....man. Not looking good. Good news is, we have enough righteous people that the majority *should be* spared.

it's one thing to say you don't have to if you don't want to. it's another to say you have to because we say so.
edit on 31-12-2012 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)
edit on 31-12-2012 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 03:00 AM
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reply to post by NarrowGate
 


True no freedom if they are forcing it when not necessary.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by pavelivanov22
reply to post by NarrowGate
 


True no freedom if they are forcing it when not necessary.


Your avatar is the best avatar I have ever seen.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:36 AM
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As long as the good christians of the good old USofA are condoning the rights of jews to behave like their former nazi camp leaders...

As long as the good christians of the good old USofA are killing civilian men, women and children in other countries simply on the assumption that there must be a terrorrist somewhere in the pile of bodies...

I don't see any problem against christians being asked to act aganst their religious beliefs. Isn't that in fact the natural ModusOperandi of being a christian?
edit on 31-12-2012 by HolgerTheDane2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
The first Amendment


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Pretty darn clear to me.



So you agree that corporations are people and should have the same rights? The first amendment was written for people not companies.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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LAW superseeds religion ALWAYS... otherwise the world would be an even more awful place.

People guided by religion are in a way psychologically sick and brainwashed and cannot be trusted to perform sensible decisions. That christian idiots choose to believe that life begins during conception should not mean that their employees should be subject to the same insane train of thoughts.

If the Hobby Lobby choose to employ people who still have a free choice in their own life, then Hobby Lobby should without a doubt be subject to the laws that safeguard the people that are employed and not some made bull# from 2000 years ago.

Everytime I hear religious people open their mouth about their ignorant beliefs in fairytales and superstition it forces me to instantly vomit.

We really need much much harder laws towards ANY religion to keep the general population safe from their brainwash!



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by NarrowGate
 





Don't worry, God doesn't care if we keep breaking His Law and ignoring His Church. He never did anything before right?

Show some proof that he has done something.



Contraceptives?

They cause Aids don't they? At least that's what the Pope says.



Wait till you see what we get for all those abortions....man. Not looking good.

If God has such a problem with abortions then why are there so many miscarriages.



Good news is, we have enough righteous people that the majority *should be* spared.

These so called righteous people are in for a shock mainly because they only follow what they want from their religions.



it's one thing to say you don't have to if you don't want to. it's another to say you have to because we say so.

Companies are not people so they shouldn't be allowed to hide behind religion just because they are cheap.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by Zcustosmorum

Originally posted by manicminxx
ATS, who is with me?

I'm going to start a company that prints toilet paper rolls.

I'll print one set of rolls with the first ten amendments. I'll print the second set of rolls with the Ten Commandments.

Then we can all get rich quick before jumping like lemmings off the fiscal cliff!

(I'm kidding. I don't endorse any kind of disrespectful or psychopathic behavior at all.)


You've inspired me, how about toilet rolls with pictures of guns for the NRA nuts and Jesus for the christians? I mean these people love these things respectively, so what better way to show your love than by wiping your ass with them


Marketing genius, could make billions
edit on 31-12-2012 by Zcustosmorum because: (my mama made me)


They have been making the koran version for at least a decade. There is probably room for more though, form a corporation and get started printing.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:16 AM
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the constitutional rights apply to individuals, not businesses, not churches, not institutions, and thank god!! not governments! businesses, churches, ect, are groups of people and as such, the beliefs that are found within are very varied.
so, can a owner of a business get away with having a pentecostal prayer session with their employees everyday? or would they find themselves in court??

while you go on raving about how the poor rights of those institutions are being ignored, well, you are ignoring the fact that the individuals rights will be trampled on regardless of what this ruling says!! after all it still will be forcing millions of people to take part in an insurance scam that is providing free birth control won't it?

and well, don't ya think that there are many people out there, regardless of weather they are members of any religion or not who might have a moral issue with taking their grocery money and using it for useless insurance and letting their children go hungry (making that useless insurance policy not so useless by the way)???

maybe some of us are just so sick and tired of all the scams that we are having moral issues with just trying to live in this screwed up society??

if you are feeling that our government is trampling on your rights to practice your religion the way you believe you should be, well, the church's have nothing to do with it, matter of fact, I found that the church's and their doctrines were basically doing the same thing, which is why I am no longer a member of any church!!

you are an individual, you may or may not be a member of a church.....if you feel that they are stepping on your rights, speak up as an individual, and just don't protect the rights of the institutions.

no business as far as I am aware, can legally force the individual members to expose themselves to extreme religious expression in the workforce. regardless if the boss feels that god has told him to have lunchtime pentecostal revivals every day or not.
I don't think the argument holds water.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


If a business can dictate its employee benefits, rights, and behaviors based on its or its owners personal philosophies as mandate, then, even if it's just one "tiny" thing like access to post pregnancy preventative measures, we then open the door for all sorts of other mandates and philosophies to be dictated as royal decree from employers.


If an employer was Militantly Atheist, would it be within their right to refuse access to any item covered under medical insurance if such procedures were attended to by a Physician of Christian, or any other faith disposition?

No.

Christians can't say what preferred medical access their employees get either.






edit on 31-12-2012 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:22 AM
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oh, and well...
let's carry it a little further....

I suppose that a muslim business owner should be able to force their female employees to dress more appropriately in his eyes, forbid them to bring in those ham sandwiches, ect.

birth control is vital a healthcare as any other. for some people pregnancy can be quite dangerous, for others, there is no possibility of a happy outcome.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by Druscilla
 


How's this?

If you want to work for a company who was founded on "Christian belief" you the employee, should "SUCK IT UP" or get another job. People have a RIGHT to run a business with conviction.

SO now TPTB can decide which religion believes what? According to the law, Muslims don't have to.... blah blah blah. But if they owned a business they would, right? Or is that only for Christians?

TPTB can put beliefs, faiths, religions on a list and say these don't, but these do..... ? TPTB and government can now decide a religious doctrine?

Post Preventive Pregnancy Measures?....... How about Pre...? Keep your knees together? And if you can't, why should your boss pay for it?
You seem, very progressive, civilized, enlightened and educated.
edit on 31-12-2012 by murphy22 because: (no reason given)
edit on 31-12-2012 by murphy22 because: added statement



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by murphy22
 


but, the only reason we are in this spot is because we have, the gov't has, let the cost of healthcare rise so drastically that now a great amount of money is needed if we want a significant number of people to have access to it...
it there wasn't an issue with the money, there would be no problem..
and well, let's carry it further, someone mentioned businesses having the right to deny coverage for religious based healthcare facilities....

so, why is that so distasteful to people? I mean we have accepted the idea that our insurance companies can put pressure on us to get treatment at this conglomerate or that one??

the way out of this is first, to bring the cost of healthcare down to the point where we don't need help from gov't or insurance companies....and second to make some kind of move to increase the number of people who can actually pay for the services with solely their own earnings.
dependency for so many =servitude for all!!!

oh...and umm....do those chirstian beliefs that you are protecting so strongly actually give a wife any sense whatsoever that she can deny the sexual advances her husband makes?? be honest now!!!

edit on 31-12-2012 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by pavelivanov22
Sad to see this in USA brought up by christian principles and was blessed by God,
Please Sir, Show me a Link to where the US was Blessed by God.

The US is Probably the Most Barbaric Country since Mongolia's Genghis Khan.


ruh rohhhh....
Done opened a can of worms on that comment.
-
Bet it's easy to say that from behind a keyboard.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:50 AM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 


I totaly agree with this! But people do not see the mission creep of government. Today it's you "HAVE TO DO THIS"....... Tomorrow? If they can force this, why can't they force dress code, force you to ride a bicycle, force you to only have male children, hell! even work for free for the good of the village and Drucilla. LOL!

These people do not understand what road we are on.
edit on 31-12-2012 by murphy22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:55 AM
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only thing I can say to this is..

and this should be for ALL religions ..................

ALL.. if not .. we have a issue..



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by Komodo
 


Funny thing is it really isn't a religious issue. Just a failure of understanding common sense.

More political than anything. We have commies, selfserving and what's in it for me. The irresponsible people that think the world owes them a living, trying to make the rest of us conform around their twisted mindset.

And then, we have freedom lovers.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 


RE: Christian belief, Any woman or man has the right to resist advances of any kind. I'm not sure were you are going with that. You must have had a bad expearence at one time......really has nothing to do with the topic.





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