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posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 03:43 AM
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Ah but most people don't know they are paying a jewish fee for these brands, many companies literally remove the kosher mark from their advertisements, while advertising the same product emphasizing the kosher label in jewish targeted advertisments.
www.ukar.org...

Deuteronomy eh?
Kosher steel?


www.ukar.org...
figures from
www.ukar.org...
Maryland rabbi Jonah Gewirtz projected extracting $700,000 in one year from steel manufacturers alone:
"Nobody gets rich," he says, and adds that he's reminded of a Talmudic saying: "They who do something for the glory of God find their work being done by angels."

Kosher water?
www.ukar.org...
Kosher Booze?
www.ukar.org...
Do you like Fish? They have to be inspected to you know... Which Fish? Damn near all of them...
www.kashrut.com...
Don't forget Kosher Buffalo Meat inspection fees...
www.kashrut.com...
Kosher Giraffe Meat? Yup.
www.kashrut.com...
Kosher vs US Constitution


WHY KOSHER FRAUD STATUTES AREN'T KOSHER:
The Second Circuit Enforces The Separation Of Church And State
writ.news.findlaw.com...

Does the government really supoprt this? They can't do that because it's religous right? Wrong... Just in NY...


www.agmkt.state.ny.us...
Rabbi Luzer Weiss, newly appointed director of the Kosher Law Enforcement Unit of the New York State Department of Agriculture and Markets

Every state, every industrialized nation, billions in the US alone. Do the math.




posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by twitchy
You and ltd... Pro jewish bias?
Your loc Says california, The site you help maintain down there by the Riverside is www.freemasoninfo.ca... a site donated to you, brethern, by Stephen Dafoe Network of Web Sites, Stephen Dafoe is a prominent and vey outspoken Canadian Mason. LTD's loc says 'east" but he has claimed in other threads to be from Canada. Let's see what Stephen Dafoe says on religous folks shall we?
The Stephen Dafoe Network of Web Sites...
www.freemasoninfo.ca...


...No the true Christian cannot be a Freemason.

So really, given this, why would "both" of you be so fiercely in defense of another religous organization?
Maybe this is why...?
This seems to make a clear statement that is relevant considering that yes it's billions of dollars we are talking about here...


Stephen Dafoe
History of the Knights Templar
A close rapport was also maintained with Jewish communities, financial interests...

A financial interest? Hmmm, That's interesting I wonder where he got that idea? Whom does the 'kosher' grail serve?
Here knock yourself out, www.google.com...
He seems rather pro-jewish to me...
So in conclusion either 'both' of you share the same pro-jewish bias, or you are the same guy because you guys are both on the same threads, roughly at the same times but not at the exact same times eh?. One of them cuts and pastes an article (in violation of TOS) while the other argues posting within a few minutes of each other. Look at the deleted posts, forget which account you were signed in on? Yeah it's pure speculation but I'd be willing to bet in addition to similar views, you probably have simialr IP addys, same styles, SAME BIAS.
Now in response to your question, my problem is that a religous organization is using the federal, states, and local governments to charge our major food comapnies a fee to maintain their religous standards. Fees that amount in the billions of dollars that result in inflated food costs on name brand products that have nothing to do with deuteronomy. The FDA inspects adn is regulated by the government, but they aren't a religon are they? The 1st ammendment doen't mention safe national standards for quality in consumable goods, it says you can't mandate religon through government. Take some more classes doc. Kosher Fees are a raket, even some rabbi's say this, or did you miss that one in my prior posts? If it were a matter of mrketing, then why pain it out of advertisments to the other 97%? If it were about laws in deuteronomy, explain kosher toliet bowl cleaner to me? NYC public water sytem? Estimates at 30 billion in this country alone, and you can't even choose betwen coke or pepsi without paying up.


So rather than address the substance of the issue i raise, you try to slander me by raising a host on non relevant issues??? Is THIS how you address the issue? And you have a lot of gonads trying this, especially after I have successfully pointed out that your agenda is patently anti jewish...

ALso, you misquote Stephen Dafore. He NEVER said a true christian can't be a mason.

Nice ad hominem... now, you want to TRY to address the substance?



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by twitchy
I forgot to include this link... More biased than I thought...
www.google.com...

edit... you seem to do alot of this... www.google.com...
What does that one sight mean by 'masons practicing jewish magic'?


[edit on 1-11-2004 by twitchy]


I have no clue what it means, why don't you tell us, since it is clear from your posts that you are anti jewish. Else, why would you drag this into the issue? Have I ever, anywhere, written or spoken on "Jewish Magic"?

Nice ad hominem. NOW, would you like to try to address the racist issue you have brought up, or would you like to continue the ad hominem attacks?



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by infinite8


If it cost that much to certify any product as Kosher, NO ONE WOULD MARKET to the small segment, only 360,000 Data Source. Your numbers simply don't add up the way you are trying to present them. So, again, I come back to the point, what is the problem?


This isn't an accurate estimate, reason being that it is not only Jewish people that buy Kosher foods. There are many that choose to buy these products like vegetarians, religious views aside.

Though there is a practice of charging for this, I don't believe it is an unfair practice as long as the burden is passed on to the consumer and that the consumer is aware of why the cost is higher. Generally those buying the Kosher foods understand there is an additional cost associated with the inspections. The government is involved because they have to be. You can't have people making claims that aren't true. For example, fat free food that isn't fat free.

On the other hand, I do not believe that it is fair to force inspections on companies that do not have direct impact on the source of food itself. It is not fair to force inspections on companies that cannot influence that actual final product.


Right! And that is what I have been writing. Twitchy is trying ot MAKE is a jewish issue, and its not. He keeps using the term "Jewish Tax" and I use this as proof that he is trying to make it a Jewish issue. Its not.

If you do not like food or products being certified as Kosher, DON'T BUY THEM.

How hard is this to understand?

Unless its NOT about the cost, which is what his posts, both the first that was deleted (!!) by the mods as racist and inflamatory, and this ongoing thread, which is clearly race/religion driven.

Look how he personally attacks me with nonsense, rather than focusing on the issue, as he continues to demand.. rather than face the fact that he is a racist and simply admit it. Point the finger at me based on what other people have posted (and only a vanishing small piece of the massive volume that Stephen has written and posted at that, and out of context) is one of the best demonstrations of ad hominem I have seen in a long time...



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:49 PM
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don't know man a multi billion dollar, government backed food tax by a religous organization is a pretty healthy scandal IMO. Imagine I went to General Foods Corp and told them I didn't eat cheetos and wanted themt o pay me a fee to inspect their plant, and all their suppliers plants to make sure I wasn't getting any cheetos in my food every year. They would either call security, or they would tell me to get lost. At the very least, given the state backing fo rthis certification process adn the enforcement of the fees involved, it is a violation of church and state, let alone extortion and racketerring. It's a multi-billion dollar institution, and a gallon of milk is four dollars now man.


If millions of potential customers also didn't eat cheetos, and wanted the same assurances, I doubt they'd call security and risk alienating that market....hence the cooperation. I will agree however, that government has no business in the regulation of this, other than to protect the companies, etc.

I'm not sure how valid the charge of more money is though. Let's take Kosher Coke for example (available around the various holidays, and maked with a little K in a circle). It costs no more than regular old Coca-Cola. Nor does it cost more than Pepsi (other than the usual cola war pricing)...which does not have a "Kosher" version.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 03:21 PM
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Just as a little addition, with a commnet at the end:

I actually did a search of my refrigerator, cupboards, pantry. Unless I'm completely blind, I found ONE item marked with a "U" in a circle. Pretty big marking too, right on the front label. Can't miss it. It's Welch's Grape Juice. Now, I know that Welch's is a good brand, and that it costs a little more than other brands of grape juice. In turn, I can point out certain ogranic grape juices that are better than Welch's and that cost more, and are not necessarily Kosher. Now, I wuoldn't buy Wlech's unless I thought it was a fairly reasonable price, and further, I happen to like it. In Canada, we pay a provincial sales tax, plus a goods and services tax. Of course, no one likes these taxes, but they aren't ridiculous, and there is indeed a place for taxes in a society. C'est la vie. There are more pressing issues, certainly. IF there is indeed a slight price increase due to the Kosher marking, would I mind paying it? Not really. It simply is not significant enough for me to care. Or for that matter, the majority of consumers to care. We HAVE a choice.

I care more about our insanely corrupt immigration department, the U.S. elections, the welfare of Masonry, and healthcare, among aother issues that affect me and others in ways we can truly feel.

Are there other issues besides those? Absolutely? This Kosher issue is one of them. It is, however, by and large an argument based on PRINCIPLE. It really doesn't affect your wallet, unless you choose to nickel-and-dime the issue, in which case you are of the mind that even a single cent above and beyond what you "thnik" is the norm is ludicrous. This kind of thinking should be remedied. Arguing on principle is fine, to a point. Then, it simply becomes far more than what it should be. It can become a weapon, a way to alienate others, a way to cast negative aspersions on yourself (no matter HOW you inteded it) and the issue will quickly become annoying.

It simply is not significant enough to make a fuss over. Taken too far, this issue does far more harm than good. You might think that by bringing this to light, you are the champion of all the poor folk who are being "hoodwinked" for a few cents. Wrong. In fact, the more you are heard from on this issue, any admiration you might have garnered is quickly eroding.

Again, this might not be the case. Perhaps, as I write this, you are receiving many u2us and e-mails about how serious an issue this is. If that is the case, I apologize, and then by all means, perss the issue further and further until you reach whatever goal it is that you want to reach.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 03:57 PM
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Yea ok LTD I honestly believe you are full of it. I work at a Wal-Mart and I gaurantee you that almost every single item has either the U or the K in a circle or the K in the star or many of the other Kosher certification symbols. If you are in Canada I suggest looking for the COR in a circle. Yup another Kosher certificate. I told my Department manager and he says he was never told aobut this in his 15 years of working in grocery. I just do not understand the need to Certify laudry detergant or seran wrap or scrubbing brushes kosher? Amazing stuff I do believe I saw on of them on bubbalicious bubble gum. I just want to know why the U.S. would help these organizations making this kind of profit and where exactly the money is going besides the obvious pockets of the rabbis. Who knows maybe this money goes into the United states or Israels defense budget.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
Yea ok LTD I honestly believe you are full of it. I work at a Wal-Mart and I gaurantee you that almost every single item has either the U or the K in a circle or the K in the star or many of the other Kosher certification symbols. If you are in Canada I suggest looking for the COR in a circle. Yup another Kosher certificate. I told my Department manager and he says he was never told aobut this in his 15 years of working in grocery. I just do not understand the need to Certify laudry detergant or seran wrap or scrubbing brushes kosher? Amazing stuff I do believe I saw on of them on bubbalicious bubble gum. I just want to know why the U.S. would help these organizations making this kind of profit and where exactly the money is going besides the obvious pockets of the rabbis. Who knows maybe this money goes into the United states or Israels defense budget.


So WHY is that a problem,?? Is it bankrupting YOU personally??

You don't understand because you are not Jewish. If you want to know why the government is "allowing" this, then ask them !! Make phone calls. Mobilize. Get together with Twitchy and organize something.

Again, arguing this issue on principle doesn't really work.


Twitchy:

My location is simply a Masonic reference. Had you been around over a month ago, you would have seen funny locations, strictly for entertainment value.

[edit on 1-11-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 08:02 PM
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DYepes, I can understand the need to check bubble gum because it is consumed. The other products you mention, I will have to agree on. It is ridiculous to force checks on these products.

If the companies that are being forced to certify as Kosher don't mind paying the fees, and we don't mind paying the extra cost as a consumer, than no real harm is being done.

When it gets bad, is when companies refuse to pay for an unneeded stamp of approval and end up with a boycott of their entire product line.

Any product that is not consumable, nor absorbable by the body (shampoos, lotions, etc), should not be pressured into these things.

This issue in no way affects me because I buy what I like regardless of a slight cost difference, but it does concern me when affecting those who don't feel they should be burdened with unnecessary certifications. In cases of large companies, it does not affect them as much as a small company.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 01:09 AM
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The "Kosher Squad" that used to come and prepare the hotel for banquets told me quite a bit about it while I was polishing cultery etc...
They jokingly refered to the kitchen as "The Synogouge" from time to time and they aren't far wrong.
Basically for a food to be Kosher the kitchen must be, so any product that goes into the kitchen has to be itself Kosher, particularly cleaning products and containers.
It's not just a case of storing meat and milk in different cupboards, they have to have separate plates, cutlery and preparation items for each of them, even two different dish washers.
And it doesn't stop there, there are all sorts of other lesser known restrictions as well.
Basically it costs a bomb and is pretty impenitrable even for most run of the mill Jews as to whether a product can be kosher, unless it is "vegan" (as is Coke) then it's just the religious stuff you have to worry about.
Halal seems much less complicated by comparison, there are several animals you can't eat and every animal has to be killed in accordance with the Halal techniques.
There may be more to it but I haven't had any professional deallings with it, unlike my work with Kosher foods.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by theron dunn
Right! And that is what I have been writing. Twitchy is trying ot MAKE is a jewish issue, and its not. He keeps using the term "Jewish Tax" and I use this as proof that he is trying to make it a Jewish issue. Its not.
If you do not like food or products being certified as Kosher, DON'T BUY THEM.
How hard is this to understand?
Unless its NOT about the cost, which is what his posts, both the first that was deleted (!!) by the mods as racist and inflamatory, and this ongoing thread, which is clearly race/religion driven.
Look how he personally attacks me with nonsense, rather than focusing on the issue, as he continues to demand.. rather than face the fact that he is a racist and simply admit it. Point the finger at me based on what other people have posted (and only a vanishing small piece of the massive volume that Stephen has written and posted at that, and out of context) is one of the best demonstrations of ad hominem I have seen in a long time...

Dude, personally attacking you? You have been calling me a racist and a jew hater for page after page after page. Attacking you and demonstrating your obivous pro-jewish bias aren't exactly the same thing. Ad Hominem? What you mean like calling me racist? An obvious, demonstratable bias is hardly ad hominem, and is, as we say here in NC, calling the kettle black. Don't buy them? How can you not buy them?


Originally posted by theron dunn
I have no clue what it means, why don't you tell us, since it is clear from your posts that you are anti jewish. Else, why would you drag this into the issue? Have I ever, anywhere, written or spoken on "Jewish Magic"?
Nice ad hominem. NOW, would you like to try to address the racist issue you have brought up, or would you like to continue the ad hominem attacks?
Ah here we go again, 'anti jewish', 'racist issue', then the hypocrisy of ad hominem and telling I am not addressing the issue in the self same sentence. You claim I am the one making this into a anti-jewish issue, yet I have begged and begged you to argue this without trying to make it into a racist issue, have I not? To that end, you have failed most dismally, and I will hence forth ignore your psots until you are able to address and or debate the facts I have presented. If you are so passionately inclined to defend this practice, then do so. Make an actual effort and do some research cause your own ad hominem of calling me racist does nothign to debunk my data. Masons and Jewish Magic, no, you didn't say it, but, to further demonstrate your bias let's take a look at some folks who have shall we...
www.texemarrs.com...
You are familiar with this guy aren't you?
p212.ezboard.com...
There are lots of connections between freemasonry and judeaism, do you deny this? Before you deny this, I should warn you I am very well versed in the history of both. Do you really want me to elaborate further as many of my studies have included some of your own writings as well. In fact I would go so far as to suggest you are demonstratably adamantly pro-jewish, and therefore bias. Shall I post some information on the modern financial ties between Masonic and Jewish organizations, or would you like me to elaborate on the history of the Knights Templar and their seizure of the Dome of the Rock of which you are more than familiar? I wasn't going to drag this issue into the debate here, but I would be more than happy to if you are going to deny your biased lack of ability to address or debate the virtual poop sheet of data I have presented here. As a PhD holder I would have expected more of a legitimate debate from you then merely angrily suggesting I am a racist ad-nauseum. Here again, and for the last time I am going to ask you to debate the facts. I can sit here and type that you are anti-twitchyist all day long, but I prefer to debate, not conjecture. Let's stick to the facts, in other words. Can you? Let's see... Let's start with one word, billions. Debunk that. Jewish Rabbi's make billions from Kosher Fees in the US alone. I know good and well that you are going to defend this practice, and I know why you are going to defend it, but let's see if you can defend this practice by either debunking or justifying it rather than your ridiculous racist assertions.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 07:50 AM
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If you looked through your fridge and only found one product LTD/theorn then you either didn't look very hard or you somehow miraculously avoided purchasing well over 20,000 name brand products.
Just Don't buy them!?!?!?!?! How are you going to avoid buying them!?!? According to jewish folks...


www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
Approximately 3/4 of all prepackaged foods have some kind of kosher certification, and most major brands have reliable Orthodox certification.

For those of you interested in what symbols to look for, a good list is here.
I am willing to bet you will see them more often than you think. This list represents only the common ones as there are several more specialized stamps in industry that you commonly won't see make it to the retail markets.
www.seattlevaad.org...
Now consider this statement, then tell me why we have to pay inflated costs for toliet bowl cleaner, or why 700,000 dollars a year is getting siphoned out of the steel industry, or why there are Kosher fees for paper plates, window cleaners, bleach and laundry soaps, dish washing liquids,
and everything else that has NOTHING to do with kashrut?


www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
The Fundamental Rules
Although the details of kashrut are extensive, the laws all derive from a few fairly simple, straightforward rules:
Certain animals may not be eaten at all. This restriction includes the flesh, organs, eggs and milk of the forbidden animals.
Of the animals that may be eaten, the birds and mammals must be killed in accordance with Jewish law.
All blood must be drained from the meat or broiled out of it before it is eaten.
Certain parts of permitted animals may not be eaten.
Meat (the flesh of birds and mammals) cannot be eaten with dairy. Fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables and grains can be eaten with either meat or dairy. (According to some views, fish may not be eaten with meat).
Utensils that have come into contact with meat may not be used with dairy, and vice versa. Utensils that have come into contact with non-kosher food may not be used with kosher food. This applies only where the contact occurred while the food was hot.
Grape products made by non-Jews may not be eaten.

Even 'Slurpees' are not free of this TAX/FEE... Bear in mind that each individual flavor has paid a seperate fee as well as the suppliers of each individual ingredient!
When you go this site, notice all the companies listed here that have paid one fee to a kosher organization, which wasn't acceptable to another kosher organization... What does that mean? More governemtn regulated and mandated religous fees of course...


www.jewishkansascity.org...
Approved Slurpee List-June 2003 (cRc):
Barq's Slurpee, Red Crme Root Beer, Coca Cola Slurpee, Cherry Coke, Citra, Coca Cola Classic, Crystal Light, Lemon Lime, Orange Pineapple,
Raspberry, Dr. Pepper Slurpee, Dr. Pepper Fanta Slurpee, Banana Birch Beer, Blue Cherry Blue, Raspberry, Ginger Ale, Grape Kiwi Strawberry Orange, Red Licorice, Super Sour Apple, Super Sour Watermelon, Vanilla Watermelon, White Cherry, Wild Cherry, Yellow Cherry, Master Chill Slurpee, Bruisin Berry, Sour Green Minute Maid Slurpee, Blue Cherry,
Blueberry Cherry Fruit Punch, Grape Lemonade, Orange Passionfruit,
Orange Peach Pineapple Raspberry Lemonade, Sour Blue Raspberry,
Strawberry Mountain Dew Slurpee, And all flavors of Pepsi Slurpee,

Of course you might be tempted to ask, 'If this is such a big deal why haven't I heard anything about it on the news?' Well, perhaps this will shed some light...


www.speedreading.com...
Paramount, Disney, ICM and CAA New York, Times, Wall Street Journal Washington Post, Boston Globe, Washington Post Barron's, Dow Jones Village Voice Time, U.S. News & World Report Atlantic Monthly, NY Daily News, AOL-Time Warner, CNN News Group (before you say no that's Ted Turner, look up 'Walter Isaacson'), Time Warner's publishing division, Sports Illustrated, People, Fortune, Walt Disney Company, Touchstone, Buena Vista, Hollywood Pictures, Caravan Pictures, Miramax Films, Capital Cities/ABC, Inc., ESPN, Lifetime Television, A & E Television Networks, ABC Radio Network, Viacom, Inc., Paramount Pictures, CBS's Country Music Television Nashville Network Simon & Schuster, Scribner, The
Free Press, Pocket Books. Showtime, MTV, Nickelodeon, Fox Television Network, 20th Century Fox Films, and Fox 2000, New York Post and TV Guide

There isn't a single major media outlet in the US that isn't in one way or another either directly oerated by, or under the direct control of the Jewish community. Don't take my word for it, look em up. Can you imagine why these media outlets would have an interest in keeping the Kosher Food Scam out of the media? Billions, that's why.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by twitchy
*SNIP* As a PhD holder *SNIP*


Twitchy, I realize that these are not your words, merely asking where does one become a PhD holder, and is there much demand for such a position? Are PhD's lonely, and need a hug?


Just wanted to point out a potential flaw in the quote, a chink in the armor of veracity if you will...

Now to my point, I have stayed out of this for the large part because I believe your concern is moot, but to be fair I thought a field trip to verify my assumptions were in order. Armed with an ATS fact finding budget of $5.00, I headed to the Wal-Mart SuperCenter in Columbus, OH (can't get more American than this
). The hot dog section (a stranger to good old MM, unless the neighbor's kids are coming over for a cookout, too much of a wine pairing hassle hot dogs are
). It took me no time at all to identify the scourge of the encased meat section, high upon the shelf, casting a disparaging eye upon the other hot dogs, Hebrew National (12 oz) Kosher Dogs ($3.64), other super premium hot dogs (?) were slightly less ($3.09-$3.39 for Ball Park, Hahn's), but not kosher. Mid tier dogs ran $1.98-$2.89 (Oscar Meyer, local high end brands, and certainly not kosher), and then the cheap stuff 68-$1.69 (Bar-S, and the like) kosher? Heck, Im not even sure theyre made from meat. On closer inspection, the 68 Bar-S had more protein and less fat than the Hebrew National dogs (must be the lack of meat?), secure in my knowledge that I was not part of an insidious Zionist plot, my 68 package of Bar-S dogs and I moseyed on over to the beer section to make a selection (use the rest of the budget, just like a government hack would).

The crux of my post is that I and everyone else can make a choice when it comes to products, and if we want to buy products that are kosher and expensive, we can. If we would like to buy expensive non-kosher items we can. If we desire to purchase inexpensive non-kosher items we can (and do). The only problem is buying inexpensive kosher products, that you cant do. Wheres the beef ?(its not in my hot dogs
) Who is harmed? Not me the consumer (I wantonly sampled my feast, not a memorable moment in MMs dining recollection, but I am alive), I was able to purchase non-kosher products without supporting any Unconstitutional causes (unless my hot dogs should have only cost 64).



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 08:54 AM
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They are pushing the dogs too...


www.hot-dog.org...
In fact, Kosher hot dogs are a small, but growing part of the hot dog category, with 14 million pounds sold last year at retail. While hot dog sales have been strong in the last year, the Kosher hot dog category is growing at twice the rate of the total category...


Edit:
Again I repeat this statistic from a jewish source..


www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
Approximately 3/4 of all prepackaged foods have some kind of kosher certification, and most major brands have reliable Orthodox certification.



[edit on 2-11-2004 by twitchy]



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 09:03 AM
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Twitchy, its hard to believe these people aren't getting your point, I get the feeling that the only reason these guys are posting in this forum is so they can disagree with me.

Certifying products as Kosher or Halal means that the company can no longer apply freemarket principles, you are locking it into contracts with a limited run of companies that are all in some way affiliated.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 09:07 AM
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Know what? I DO have a Jewish bias. I really do. I shouldn't have contributed to this thread because of it. I'm not the most objective person when it comes to Jews. I gladly help their causes whenever I can. Want to know why ?

Here.




















My Godmother (who is still alive) was a little girl when she and the other girls from her orphanage fled from the advancing Nazis. She was the older of the girls, and the leader of her little group. It was the middle of winter. They had to sleep in the snow. They almost froze to death. I'm not a Jew, but she is, and a damn fine lady she is, too.

I'm off this thread, folks.

I'm not worried over a few nickels and dimes.

[edit on 2-11-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by LTD602
I DO have a Jewish bias. I really do. I shouldn't have contributed to this thread because of it. I'm not worried over a few nickels and dimes.

Ah holocaust pictures... Real classy. So your telling me that because of the holocaust, they are entitled to billions of american dollars from the rest of the non-jewish mostly unwitting consumers?!? I am worried about a few nickels and dimes, because I don't think what happened in Germany 50 years ago entitles them to dime one of my money. That may sound harsh, but the bottom line here is money. Those billions of dollars make the jewish folks feel better? Shall I post some pictures of mangled up pallestinian children to correlate where kosher fees end up? No, I have more class than that.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 09:20 AM
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LTD - What the f*ck has this got to do with "Kosher tax" or other religious levies?
I can't figure people like you out - as soon as you see the word Jew you have to start yammering on about the Holocaust.
Stop trying to steer this thread into anti-semitism.

We're all aware of this sort of thing - we are trying to discuss a delicate subject and this sort of politicial nonsense from you is just plain sickening.

Kindly take your self serving bleeding-heart bullsh*t elsewhere.

If you have no knowledge on the subject please refrain from posting this sort of crap.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 09:33 AM
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Yeah somehow war atrocities from 50 years ago in europe entitle them to world wide government sanctioned extortion and raketeering, and your supposed to feel bad when your grandfathers gave their lives saving the jewish nation... Is that what your saying LTD/theorn, or are you implying perhaps that the only defense that can be raised for this scam is paranoid assertions of antisemitism? Get a grip. My grandmother sent her family off to die saving Jews in WWII, in other words,

Yes I agree with necros, this is a pathetic attempt to turn this thread into a racist issue, it's getting old. Stay off the thread if thats all you 'two' are going to do. Trying to get the thread closed is all that crap is.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by twitchy
Masons and Jewish Magic, no, you didn't say it, but, to further demonstrate your bias let's take a look at some folks who have shall we...

You are familiar with this guy aren't you?


No, I am not. Until today, I had never heard of him, but it does not surprise me, based on this thread alone, that YOU would be... you are, really, making my point for me here...

Hahahahaha, did you actually READ the thread? The problem with doing a google search is YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO READ THE CITATION. I did not write anything about a Jewish Conspiracy. The thread you cite was actually us making fun of someone, like you, that is making precisely this claim.


There are lots of connections between freemasonry and judeaism, do you deny this?


No, actually I don't. Why would you think I would deny the obvious? Our ritual is based on an allegory regarding the building of King Solomon's Temple, after all.


Before you deny this, I should warn you I am very well versed in the history of both. Do you really want me to elaborate further as many of my studies have included some of your own writings as well. In fact I would go so far as to suggest you are demonstratably adamantly pro-jewish, and therefore bias.


Well, Duhhh. I am not PRO Jewish, I am pro humanity. Your argument is patently a racist one, based on what looks to me to be a hatred for the Jewish faith. Even this attack on me serves nothing but to further that argument FOR me, else why would you be attacking me for being "Pro Jewish" and trying to defame me (Humourously, without actually reading my posts you cite) and by posting the rantings of someone claiming that Masonry is a part of some Jewish conspiracy???)


Shall I post some information on the modern financial ties between Masonic and Jewish organizations, or would you like me to elaborate on the history of the Knights Templar and their seizure of the Dome of the Rock of which you are more than familiar?


No, please, do. You are MAKING my point for me. This is very easy. As for financial ties between "jewish organizations" and Masonry, sure, i could use a laugh. Go ahead and SHOW me these "connections".


I wasn't going to drag this issue into the debate here, but I would be more than happy to if you are going to deny your biased lack of ability to address or debate the virtual poop sheet of data I have presented here.


Actually, I HAVE addressed your arguments three times now, and you simply chose to ignore them, but that does not surprise me at all, given that your agenda is clearly to attack Judaism, and that this whole "Jewish Tax" nonsense is just a smokescreen for you to do this. I have also demolished your numbers, but I see you have ignored THAT as well.


As a PhD holder I would have expected more of a legitimate debate from you then merely angrily suggesting I am a racist ad-nauseum.


You see, here you go again. I am not angry. I am pointing out what is obvious to everyone that is posting here. Even your supporters, Necros for instance, are clearly anti jewish. Perhaps that is not your intention, but your whole argument has been about secret taxes, hidden agendas, when the fact is clear there is NO hidden agenda... other than YOURS, and no hidden very well.


Here again, and for the last time I am going to ask you to debate the facts. I can sit here and type that you are anti-twitchyist all day long, but I prefer to debate, not conjecture. Let's stick to the facts, in other words. Can you? Let's see... Let's start with one word, billions. Debunk that. Jewish Rabbi's make billions from Kosher Fees in the US alone.



Hmmm, prove it. Your last attempt was rather weak and I debunked it. Have you any solid numbers? Billions is a LARGE number. Your claim about Canada's expenditure was based on a false assumption, and ended up being .015% of the GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT OF CANADA. Now, that is a large percentage for a service that adds pennies to the cost of each product.

The simplest answer is not to buy Kosher certified foods if it gets you shorts into such a tight wad... I mean, get over yourself. You act as if this were a real issue, when it is no more important than certifying food as Halal, or wholesome as the USDA does.


I know good and well that you are going to defend this practice, and I know why you are going to defend it, but let's see if you can defend this practice by either debunking or justifying it rather than your ridiculous racist assertions.


Well, of course I am defending the practice. I have never hidden that from anyone. I do not see what the big deal is? You have a market segment that purchases food based on dietary needs (religiously based, to be sure). The manufacturer, seeing that need, adds the necessary production and certification to the process, and produces, therefore, a product that is certified Kosher.

Now, if there were no market for it, they would not bother doing it. There clearly is a market. Do I really need to explain market forces for you AGAIN? Why is it that you are ignoring this argument in favor of your rant?

Lets take the example of peanut oil. Did you know that there is a small segment of the population that is DEADLY allergic to peanuts? ANY trace of peanut oil can KILL them. As a result, manufacturers have to have two complete separate food production units. One that NEVER has any peanut product go through it, ever, and another where they can alternately produce peanut and other products.

The NON peanut products have to be certified as being peanut allergen free. Now, the cost of those two separate units is passed on to the consumer, all consumers, not just the peanut allergic folks. That is a cost of doing business.

Lets take the example of tomatoes or Apples. The consumer has been trained to only prefer apples or tomatoes that are perfectly shaped and of a particular size and color. The rest of the fruit are discarded, or made into tomatoe sauce or apple sauce.

Those costs are passed on to the consumer. So, what is my point? My point is that certifying as Kosher or Halal or peanut allergen free are costs of doing business, and on a per unit basis, are vanishingly small. Kosher is a certification that is offered to sell to a market segment. If it really tightens your jaws to pay a small fee to have the food certified as Kosher, DON'T BUY IT.

This is obvious to a five year old, which brings me to my argument that your argument IS a racist one. I read your original thread, which was deleted by the mods for being racist. Your argument that it is a "Jewish Tax" is a racist one. Your argument that the money is being funneled into "Jewish Organizations" is a racist one. Your attack on me as being "pro jewish" is a racist one. Your argument that Masonry is a "pro jewish" fraternity is a racist one. Your argument that Masonry is a part of some "Jewish Conspiracy" is a racist one.

I demolish your argument thus.

Satisfy you as coming from a PhD?

[edit on 11/2/04 by theron dunn]





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