As to my earlier question, you can't do it can you?
Are you capable of actually debating this issue, or are you just going to keep posting the same 'jew hater' rubbish? Allow me to clarify something
ONCE AGAIN, try debating instead of generalizing or assuming, cause frankly I don't give a shiny red rat's butt what religon is behind this. It
violates the first ammendment and costs the other 97% of consumers billions. If it were a hindu cow inspection fee, it would still be a scam.
If you can't debate your position then prepare to go on my ignore list, both of YOU.
Is This Better?, page 4
privacy
reply posted on 31-10-2004 @ 12:58 AM by twitchy
Originally posted by intrepid
In Canada we have a kosher foods tax exemption worth $500/year. This exemption can be claimed by everyone that uses the products on the list.
That's actaully not a bad idea intrepid and it raises a question as well,
Just to throw some figrues around here....
if you figure the population of Canada at roughly 32 million www.statcan.ca...
then multiply that times 500.00 Canadian Dollars in exemptions a piece, you end up with 16,000,000,000 16 trillion canadian dollars that are eligible for exemption, now obviously this is 'raw' data, so lets break it down.
Obiously there are some jewish folks in Canada, so lets take them out of the exemption status, which is roughly 360,000 people
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
32 million minus 360,000=31,640,000
Wow, it's still 15,820,000,000 canadian dollars.
That means the Canadian Government realizes that the Kosher Food fees is a signifigant enough burden on the population to offer 15 trillion dollars in exemptions. Now of course all these folks aren't old enough to be tax payers, and I tried to find some statistic on what number of canadians are under the age of 18, but I think it's safe to assume that even if we take them out of the equation, it's still going to be alot of money.
We need something like there in the US, our poulation is 294,644,000
www.census.gov...
Taking the 3% of our population that are actually profiting from this, we get 285,805,000, if we gave these people a 500 exemptions to recoup them for these kosher fees it would add up to 142 trillion dollars.
Obviously this figure is inflated as it doesn't reflect the non-taxable population i.e. children, but I think my point is clear. The Us and Canada aren't the only ones paying Kosher fees either...
reply posted on 31-10-2004 @ 05:41 PM by Mirthful Me
Originally posted by twitchy
www.statcan.ca...
then multiply that times 500.00 Canadian Dollars in exemptions a piece, you end up with 16,000,000,000 16 trillion canadian dollars that are eligible for exemption, now obviously this is 'raw' data, so lets break it down.
Obiously there are some jewish folks in Canada, so lets take them out of the exemption status, which is roughly 360,000 people
16,000,000,000 is 16 billion, not trillion (which would be 16,000,000,000,000), if you can't discern the difference between billion and trillion I would say you credibility on more esoteric subjects to be suspect.
reply posted on 31-10-2004 @ 05:44 PM by twitchy
Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Originally posted by twitchy
www.statcan.ca...
then multiply that times 500.00 Canadian Dollars in exemptions a piece, you end up with 16,000,000,000 16 trillion canadian dollars that are eligible for exemption, now obviously this is 'raw' data, so lets break it down.
Obiously there are some jewish folks in Canada, so lets take them out of the exemption status, which is roughly 360,000 people
16,000,000,000 is 16 billion, not trillion (which would be 16,000,000,000,000), if you can't discern the difference between billion and trillion I would say you credibility on more esoteric subjects to be suspect.
Right you are, my bad. Billions. I feel alot better now thanks.
reply posted on 31-10-2004 @ 06:12 PM by theron dunn
Look, maybe its just that I don't get what your beef is... the products are sold for a market segment that is apparently large enough to justify the
additional per unit cost. Your projection of BILLIONS of dollars in additional costs also isn't justified in the process you used. The claim of $16
billion in additional costs in Canada just doesn't pass the common sense test.
$16,000,000,000 divided by 2080 and then $50 per hour gives a ridiculous 156,846 man years of labor PER YEAR in additional costs for certifying that foods are Kosher... not really very realistic. The Gross Domestic Product for Canada in the year 2003 was only$1,012.7 billion Data Source which by your figures mean the ADDITIONAL cost of certifying foods as Kosher, in Canada alone, was 1.5% of the Gross Domestic Product of the whole COUNTRY.
Now, the products are marketed because there is a market for them. I have no problem with the cost of a coke, a pepsi, etc etc., nor after reading through your materials, do I see any valid point to your argument. ESPECIALLY with the numbers you are trying to tout...
If it cost that much to certify any product as Kosher, NO ONE WOULD MARKET to the small segment, only 360,000 Data Source. Your numbers simply don't add up the way you are trying to present them. So, again, I come back to the point, what is the problem?
In the US, we have US Department of Agriculture employees that work in the food producing plants and facilities to certify that the food has been prepared in accordance with the rules defined by the USDA... that adds to the cost of the food, but no one is complaining, since it ENSURES A QUALITY product. I just don't see what your problem is with PRIVATE companies that choose to add a Kosher certification to their products.
The reason the Government oversees the Kosher label is the same reason the government (here in the US, anyway) has the USDA inspect meat, fish, and other products.
So, again, I come back to the question, what is your complaint?
$16,000,000,000 divided by 2080 and then $50 per hour gives a ridiculous 156,846 man years of labor PER YEAR in additional costs for certifying that foods are Kosher... not really very realistic. The Gross Domestic Product for Canada in the year 2003 was only$1,012.7 billion Data Source which by your figures mean the ADDITIONAL cost of certifying foods as Kosher, in Canada alone, was 1.5% of the Gross Domestic Product of the whole COUNTRY.
Now, the products are marketed because there is a market for them. I have no problem with the cost of a coke, a pepsi, etc etc., nor after reading through your materials, do I see any valid point to your argument. ESPECIALLY with the numbers you are trying to tout...
If it cost that much to certify any product as Kosher, NO ONE WOULD MARKET to the small segment, only 360,000 Data Source. Your numbers simply don't add up the way you are trying to present them. So, again, I come back to the point, what is the problem?
In the US, we have US Department of Agriculture employees that work in the food producing plants and facilities to certify that the food has been prepared in accordance with the rules defined by the USDA... that adds to the cost of the food, but no one is complaining, since it ENSURES A QUALITY product. I just don't see what your problem is with PRIVATE companies that choose to add a Kosher certification to their products.
The reason the Government oversees the Kosher label is the same reason the government (here in the US, anyway) has the USDA inspect meat, fish, and other products.
So, again, I come back to the question, what is your complaint?
reply posted on 31-10-2004 @ 11:21 PM by DYepes
Well after reviewing a few websites that I will post at the end of this thread I have discovered that I, a Non-Jew who doesnt know or give a damn
whether my food is Kosher or not, has a kitchen full of Kosher Certified products of which the price includes the cost of tax towards some
organization that must inspect this stuff and whatnot. If you use Nestle Quick, you know the one with the rabbit, for your chocolate milk then you
have purchased a product in which a fraction of that price goes towards a Jewish organization. Although the cost to the individual may not be
noticeable, it is abviously a noticeable profit for the communtiy due to sheer volume of products sold. Could this be why we are a consumer based
society? I am not sure, a theory maybe. Regardless I will post of a few facts with links now.
I want to know that this money is going towards a good cause or helping people out. Instead we know absolutely nothing of where this money is going except to pay the rabbis that certify them. If you buy Starkist tuna, bumblebee tuna, nestle quick, heinz ketchup, vlasic pickles all these products have the kosher certification on them. According to figures I gather the lowest speculated tax is 6.5 millionths (.0000065) of a cent per unit sold. Let us assume that is the tax for EVERY single product, although it is undoubtable that most products have a much higher tax rate. With a 130 billion dollar kosher certified food industry in 1999 thats over 800,000 dollars in one year a very conservative estimate if you ask me and still alot for what is done. My question is simply where does the money go? I sure hope it goes towards cancer or alternative fuels research because I would hate to know if it actually just went straight into their pockets or worse towards the Israeli military to further subdue the Palestinians.
Here are some more links.
Link 1
Link 2
Even David Icke (although I think he is a quack on many of his theories) talks about it
Added in:
If the USDA has already certified our food safe to eat, why then does another private organization have to certify a very large percentage of them for a minority group safe to eat? My arguement is if these organizations are getting this money they better damn well be using it for a good cause. And it strikes me odd that a Laundry detergant such as Tide should be certified as Kosher.
[edit on 10/31/2004 by DYepes]
I want to know that this money is going towards a good cause or helping people out. Instead we know absolutely nothing of where this money is going except to pay the rabbis that certify them. If you buy Starkist tuna, bumblebee tuna, nestle quick, heinz ketchup, vlasic pickles all these products have the kosher certification on them. According to figures I gather the lowest speculated tax is 6.5 millionths (.0000065) of a cent per unit sold. Let us assume that is the tax for EVERY single product, although it is undoubtable that most products have a much higher tax rate. With a 130 billion dollar kosher certified food industry in 1999 thats over 800,000 dollars in one year a very conservative estimate if you ask me and still alot for what is done. My question is simply where does the money go? I sure hope it goes towards cancer or alternative fuels research because I would hate to know if it actually just went straight into their pockets or worse towards the Israeli military to further subdue the Palestinians.
Here are some more links.
Link 1
Link 2
Even David Icke (although I think he is a quack on many of his theories) talks about it
Added in:
If the USDA has already certified our food safe to eat, why then does another private organization have to certify a very large percentage of them for a minority group safe to eat? My arguement is if these organizations are getting this money they better damn well be using it for a good cause. And it strikes me odd that a Laundry detergant such as Tide should be certified as Kosher.
[edit on 10/31/2004 by DYepes]
reply posted on 1-11-2004 @ 12:10 AM by twitchy
You and ltd... Pro jewish bias?
Your loc Says california, The site you help maintain down there by the Riverside is www.freemasoninfo.ca... a site donated to you, brethern, by Stephen Dafoe Network of Web Sites, Stephen Dafoe is a prominent and vey outspoken Canadian Mason. LTD's loc says 'east" but he has claimed in other threads to be from Canada. Let's see what Stephen Dafoe says on religous folks shall we?
The Stephen Dafoe Network of Web Sites...
www.freemasoninfo.ca...
So really, given this, why would "both" of you be so fiercely in defense of another religous organization?
Maybe this is why...?
This seems to make a clear statement that is relevant considering that yes it's billions of dollars we are talking about here...
A financial interest? Hmmm, That's interesting I wonder where he got that idea? Whom does the 'kosher' grail serve?
Here knock yourself out, www.google.com...
He seems rather pro-jewish to me...
So in conclusion either 'both' of you share the same pro-jewish bias, or you are the same guy because you guys are both on the same threads, roughly at the same times but not at the exact same times eh?. One of them cuts and pastes an article (in violation of TOS) while the other argues posting within a few minutes of each other. Look at the deleted posts, forget which account you were signed in on? Yeah it's pure speculation but I'd be willing to bet in addition to similar views, you probably have simialr IP addys, same styles, SAME BIAS.
Now in response to your question, my problem is that a religous organization is using the federal, states, and local governments to charge our major food comapnies a fee to maintain their religous standards. Fees that amount in the billions of dollars that result in inflated food costs on name brand products that have nothing to do with deuteronomy. The FDA inspects adn is regulated by the government, but they aren't a religon are they? The 1st ammendment doen't mention safe national standards for quality in consumable goods, it says you can't mandate religon through government. Take some more classes doc. Kosher Fees are a raket, even some rabbi's say this, or did you miss that one in my prior posts? If it were a matter of mrketing, then why pain it out of advertisments to the other 97%? If it were about laws in deuteronomy, explain kosher toliet bowl cleaner to me? NYC public water sytem? Estimates at 30 billion in this country alone, and you can't even choose betwen coke or pepsi without paying up.
Your loc Says california, The site you help maintain down there by the Riverside is www.freemasoninfo.ca... a site donated to you, brethern, by Stephen Dafoe Network of Web Sites, Stephen Dafoe is a prominent and vey outspoken Canadian Mason. LTD's loc says 'east" but he has claimed in other threads to be from Canada. Let's see what Stephen Dafoe says on religous folks shall we?
The Stephen Dafoe Network of Web Sites...
www.freemasoninfo.ca...
...No the true Christian cannot be a Freemason.
So really, given this, why would "both" of you be so fiercely in defense of another religous organization?
Maybe this is why...?
This seems to make a clear statement that is relevant considering that yes it's billions of dollars we are talking about here...
Stephen Dafoe
History of the Knights Templar
A close rapport was also maintained with Jewish communities, financial interests...
A financial interest? Hmmm, That's interesting I wonder where he got that idea? Whom does the 'kosher' grail serve?
Here knock yourself out, www.google.com...
He seems rather pro-jewish to me...
So in conclusion either 'both' of you share the same pro-jewish bias, or you are the same guy because you guys are both on the same threads, roughly at the same times but not at the exact same times eh?. One of them cuts and pastes an article (in violation of TOS) while the other argues posting within a few minutes of each other. Look at the deleted posts, forget which account you were signed in on? Yeah it's pure speculation but I'd be willing to bet in addition to similar views, you probably have simialr IP addys, same styles, SAME BIAS.
Now in response to your question, my problem is that a religous organization is using the federal, states, and local governments to charge our major food comapnies a fee to maintain their religous standards. Fees that amount in the billions of dollars that result in inflated food costs on name brand products that have nothing to do with deuteronomy. The FDA inspects adn is regulated by the government, but they aren't a religon are they? The 1st ammendment doen't mention safe national standards for quality in consumable goods, it says you can't mandate religon through government. Take some more classes doc. Kosher Fees are a raket, even some rabbi's say this, or did you miss that one in my prior posts? If it were a matter of mrketing, then why pain it out of advertisments to the other 97%? If it were about laws in deuteronomy, explain kosher toliet bowl cleaner to me? NYC public water sytem? Estimates at 30 billion in this country alone, and you can't even choose betwen coke or pepsi without paying up.
reply posted on 1-11-2004 @ 12:20 AM by twitchy
I forgot to include this link... More biased than I thought...
www.google.com...
edit... you seem to do alot of this... www.google.com...
What does that one sight mean by 'masons practicing jewish magic'?
[edit on 1-11-2004 by twitchy]
www.google.com...
edit... you seem to do alot of this... www.google.com...
What does that one sight mean by 'masons practicing jewish magic'?
[edit on 1-11-2004 by twitchy]
reply posted on 1-11-2004 @ 02:41 AM by twitchy
Being critical of a clearly unconstitutional practice that costs billions to consumers is NOT anti-semitic. Really if you think about it, supressing
any critism simply creates anti-semitism. Look at what secrecy and supression does for your own free and accepted beliefs. People don't like being
mislead or overcharged. Call it human nature, but why is pulling a hand out of your pocket an issue of hatred. The only one screaming hatred is the
guy with his hand in your pocket, that's why.
All ingredients must be charged fees...Right down to the very last lactic acid...
www.wilkeresources.com...
even a small time bakery in france isn't safe lol...
www.demarleusa.com...
Are they trying to push it to new companies? Well, duh. Yeah they push it.
Ah but in the good old days before it was a multi billion dollar scam...
This guy doesn't think much of the scam either but I think he explains it pretty well...
Heres a few companies you may have heard of that have to pay what by many accounts would seem to be anti-semitism protection money.. no before you look at this list, keep in mind this isn't anywhere near complete, just a few of the big ones. Also keep in mind this isn's listing the individual products (all of which of course pay a seperate fee), their constiuent ingredients (each supplier of which of course pays a seperate fee), or their subsidary companies (many of which, of course pay a seperate fee for the ingredients etc.).
here's some more...
You want more examples? sure thing...
Chinet
Arm&Hammer
Reynold's Wrap
Lawry's Foods, Inc.
T.Marzetti Co.
OREO's
Tostitos
Tasty Baking Co.
Hefty
Lysol
Mr. Clean
Dawn Ultra
Ajax
This is only a few I have listed...
Now shall I go on or are you going to realize this may be a widespread kind of thing here? Point is, you can't not buy them. Telling me to settle for lesser quality product because I'm not Jewish, or don't want to pay for jewish fees is sickening and well frankly, racist. And a violation of 1st ammendment as it is legislated and mandated by the government for the "profit making concerns" of a religous organization.
Here's a little recent news for you from a rabbi of all people...
No big deal huh?
All that and that isn't even beginning to address the smaller 'kosher' operations that are cropping up left and right, that isn't including the competing Kosher organizations nor is it including such ridiculous operations of Kosher weddings, and other events from hotels to god know what. Also it isn't including the international community. And yes, this moeny goes right into their pockets.
Here's a good description of your 'market' rebuttal...
You smell anything yet? I do, smells like a scam to me. It sure isn't on the level...
They even offer seminars for jewish folks to teach them how to 'get in on the money'...
Hey AMWAY offers seminars too lol...
www.google.com...
Kosher pyramid scheme? Somebody has to be on top...
www.ukar.org...
[edit on 1-11-2004 by twitchy]
All ingredients must be charged fees...Right down to the very last lactic acid...
www.wilkeresources.com...
even a small time bakery in france isn't safe lol...
www.demarleusa.com...
Are they trying to push it to new companies? Well, duh. Yeah they push it.
kosherfest.com...
91% of buyers found new products or companies*
Ah but in the good old days before it was a multi billion dollar scam...
www.asbi.org...
In fact, growing up in Boston in the seventies and early eighties, we did get quality kosher Mozzarella cheese made by Dragonies, which was priced just like any non-kosher cheese. The only requirement for cheese to be kosher, besides just making sure that the ingredients are kosher, which is easy, is for the manufacturer to be Jewish.
This guy doesn't think much of the scam either but I think he explains it pretty well...
www.liesexposed.net...
Usually, a company must initially pay an annual fee for the use of a Jewish certification symbol, such as the "U" or "K." The company will then pay an additional fee each time the rabbi or rabbis appear to conduct an "inspection". Thus, these fees must be paid repeatedly for the products produced.
Companies which produce goods which use ingredients or components from other facilities which have already been blessed or "certified", must again pay another Jew tax on their finished product. Needless to say, it is easy to see how many of the products purchased are taxed several times on their way to the consumer, who ultimately must assume the burden of the product's rip-off inflated price. It has been indicated that many of the companies who rely heavily on the symbols are paying as much as thirty percent of their profits...
Heres a few companies you may have heard of that have to pay what by many accounts would seem to be anti-semitism protection money.. no before you look at this list, keep in mind this isn't anywhere near complete, just a few of the big ones. Also keep in mind this isn's listing the individual products (all of which of course pay a seperate fee), their constiuent ingredients (each supplier of which of course pays a seperate fee), or their subsidary companies (many of which, of course pay a seperate fee for the ingredients etc.).
www.jewwatch.com...
Cracker Jack Foods Corp.
Dole Pineapple Packaged Foods Corp.
International Home Foods, Inc.
Kraft General Foods, Inc.
Mcilhenny Co.
Best Foods International
CPC International, Inc.
General Mills
Nabisco
Dannon Yogurt Dannon Company Inc.
Domino Sugar Corporation
French's Food Products Division Rickitt & Coleman Inc.
Hunt-Wessen INC.
Procter and Gamble
Kellogg Company
Land O'Lakes INC.
here's some more...
truedemocracy.net...
Alberto-Culver
American Home Foods
Armour Foods
Borden Foods
Chock Full O' Nuts
Colgate Palmolive
Dow Chemicals (I am sure this is really pertinent to deuteronomy)
Durkee
Entenmann's
Green Giant
Haagen Dazs
Slim Fast
J.M. Smucker
McCormick & Co.
Nutrasweet
Pepperidge Farm
Pillsbury
Sara Lee Bakery
Starkist
Thomas J. Lipton Tea Co.
Van Camp
Welch
White Rock
3M Corp (Kosher Scrub pads were in deuteronomy?)
You want more examples? sure thing...
Chinet
Arm&Hammer
Reynold's Wrap
Lawry's Foods, Inc.
T.Marzetti Co.
OREO's
Tostitos
Tasty Baking Co.
Hefty
Lysol
Mr. Clean
Dawn Ultra
Ajax
This is only a few I have listed...
Now shall I go on or are you going to realize this may be a widespread kind of thing here? Point is, you can't not buy them. Telling me to settle for lesser quality product because I'm not Jewish, or don't want to pay for jewish fees is sickening and well frankly, racist. And a violation of 1st ammendment as it is legislated and mandated by the government for the "profit making concerns" of a religous organization.
Here's a little recent news for you from a rabbi of all people...
www.denverpost.com...
Rabbi Sommers laughed through his bushy salt-and-pepper beard.
"I would like to put everyone at ease. From a Torah perspective, there is nothing wrong with making lots and lots of money,"...
That's why it's kosher to charge $8 for popcorn at movie theaters, or $150 for Google stock after buyers have a chance to read the "risk factors."...
The Torah and the Talmud demand complete honesty and disclosure in all business dealings, but they do not necessarily demand compassion...
So the Torah really is for tycoons. It doesn't expect players in competitive business arenas to be nice....
No big deal huh?
www.kosherfest.com/main.htm
"More than $130 billion of packaged foods and $300 billion of ingredients produced in the U.S. are certified kosher."
All that and that isn't even beginning to address the smaller 'kosher' operations that are cropping up left and right, that isn't including the competing Kosher organizations nor is it including such ridiculous operations of Kosher weddings, and other events from hotels to god know what. Also it isn't including the international community. And yes, this moeny goes right into their pockets.
Here's a good description of your 'market' rebuttal...
www.jabpage.org...
How often have you read something like this?
Sigh, I wish it wasn't necessary, but I have encountered too many people who seem to believe that kosher certification results in higher prices, when, in fact, due to increased sales, quite the opposite is true.
Did you fall for it? Do you really think that the fees that manufacturers pay to Jewish rabbis, in exchange for permission to stamp the hechsher (any of the Kosher certification symbols) on food products makes the overall cost of making that product less?
You smell anything yet? I do, smells like a scam to me. It sure isn't on the level...
They even offer seminars for jewish folks to teach them how to 'get in on the money'...
Hey AMWAY offers seminars too lol...
www.google.com...
Kosher pyramid scheme? Somebody has to be on top...
www.ukar.org...
[edit on 1-11-2004 by twitchy]
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