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The Aether: Does the Aether Exist, or Not?

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posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by hisshadow
Space is the Aether, space is not nothing it is something.


Wow... Dr. Who and his Tardis for an Avatar, that's great. I've always like Dr. Who shows, and I've watched loads of them. I'm taking it that your writing that space even between all of the atoms and what-not is the Aether, and that all voids are something, because it is the aether. Am I right?




posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection

Originally posted by hisshadow
Space is the Aether, space is not nothing it is something.


i think the op is talking about something filling this space


I think you are both right. I am writing about the aether being the glue in the fabric of space/time.



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by RussianScientists


Now this is interesting, you've been doing your research. Hmmm where are you getting all of this interesting stuff that time slowed down when the universe started and EM could propagate? What kind of experiments have you been running that would give you results that indicate the presence of mass compresses time?.... and that the time field can be called the aether?

Those are very interesting summations. By your own words, you are basically saying that the universe was larger when it began, which compressed time because of its larger mass? Interesting concept, but I think you may have lost me there a little bit. But I can see something to this.


Pl Chk links in my signature.
No the universe started with a big bang and the big bang happened as a result of time, gravity, temp reaching a critical point and yhe point mass itself fractured and expanded into our universe



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 04:35 AM
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Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection

Originally posted by RussianScientists


Now this is interesting, you've been doing your research. Hmmm where are you getting all of this interesting stuff that time slowed down when the universe started and EM could propagate? What kind of experiments have you been running that would give you results that indicate the presence of mass compresses time?.... and that the time field can be called the aether?

Those are very interesting summations. By your own words, you are basically saying that the universe was larger when it began, which compressed time because of its larger mass? Interesting concept, but I think you may have lost me there a little bit. But I can see something to this.


Pl Chk links in my signature.
No the universe started with a big bang and the big bang happened as a result of time, gravity, temp reaching a critical point and yhe point mass itself fractured and expanded into our universe



Wow, wow, wow.... I read your thread and your article on your discovery of synthesizing gravity and of transmutation. I'm very impressed with your discoveries. Your sitting on top of a gold mine! You just need to market your knowledge. I understand fully what your going through.

If you are ever going to sell your knowledge, then you are going to have to make some videos to show the world what your knowledge is capable of delivering. You don't need to show any of your secrets, just show what happens. Just show it before you do anything, and then tell the viewing audience what you are doing, and what will be achieved in the video, and then video the end result and tell what happened, but don't reveal your secrets.

I don't care what anyone one says, never reveal your secrets to anyone, not even in the videos, and not even when they come over. Don't show them your secrets, because they will reproduce in a short period of time, what has taken you a lot of time and money to discover.

I'm interested in you and your knowledge, but I don't want to know your secrets. I would even help you video tape you and your knowledge sometime, but I don't want you to show me or the rest of the world your secrets; just show and tell them what you will allow them to hear, and what you want them to know, they don't need to know any more; not until you see cash in a contract.

I would like to know what all you think about zero point energy and the ether/aether; I'm sure we might share some insight with each other, that others certainly don't have access to. I'm pretty sure that's were all energy as we currently know of it, is derived from.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by RussianScientists

Wow, wow, wow.... I read your thread and your article on your discovery of synthesizing gravity and of transmutation. I'm very impressed with your discoveries. Your sitting on top of a gold mine! You just need to market your knowledge. I understand fully what your going through.

If you are ever going to sell your knowledge, then you are going to have to make some videos to show the world what your knowledge is capable of delivering. You don't need to show any of your secrets, just show what happens. Just show it before you do anything, and then tell the viewing audience what you are doing, and what will be achieved in the video, and then video the end result and tell what happened, but don't reveal your secrets.

I don't care what anyone one says, never reveal your secrets to anyone, not even in the videos, and not even when they come over. Don't show them your secrets, because they will reproduce in a short period of time, what has taken you a lot of time and money to discover.

I'm interested in you and your knowledge, but I don't want to know your secrets. I would even help you video tape you and your knowledge sometime, but I don't want you to show me or the rest of the world your secrets; just show and tell them what you will allow them to hear, and what you want them to know, they don't need to know any more; not until you see cash in a contract.

I would like to know what all you think about zero point energy and the ether/aether; I'm sure we might share some insight with each other, that others certainly don't have access to. I'm pretty sure that's were all energy as we currently know of it, is derived from.

Thanks mate for your interest.
You are kind of correct in all you say.
To herald a completely new era in physics and or chemistry is never easy
on the initiator.
As shortly, I have to be away on a tour of duty, I will prolly build a black box next winter (Too hot around here)
for demo and videotaping purposes.
Zero Point Energy is as of yet little understood and any theory on it is sketchy at best.
and I would term the Time field as the Aether. Yes we could communicate on this in sort
of privacy.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by Angelic Resurrection
 


From my experiments I gained some sort of insight that our universe as we know it is basically an ocean of energy and everything that's living taps into this energy in order to exist, without that energy everything living would be extinct.

Some things absorb this energy, while other things oppose this energy, others give off this energy and others magnify this energy. Its differentiating what absorbs the energy from what opposes it; and from things that contrast or add to it in order to make it work and even magnify it.

I was reading your posts and I noticed that you stated optics was involved. I've used optics in some of my discoveries to discover the energies that exist everywhere around us. I've also used optics to magnify the energy. I can only assume that when you did your experimenting that you discovered that optics can magnify the energy also. I further suspect that if you haven't tried it, that you should try it.

Also, in your transmutation experiments that you should try doing a bunch of experiments where you provide different amounts of heat through the whole experiment, it might help in some way; different distances from light bulbs for different amounts of heat. Tesla stated that strange phenomenon could be discovered in cold conditions, better try out the refrigerator and freezer also.

I have enjoyed doing countless experiments, hundreds of thousands of experiments, and almost all of them completely successful in obtaining the correct results expected. Many times I gained new insight or made new discoveries.

Since my knowledge is basically how to measure this energy that is all around us, then I'm kind of interested in measuring your system to see if any energy displacement can be discovered coming from it, or to it. We both have our secrets and neither one of us wants to learn each others secrets, but I think we would both be interested in seeing if your system affects the aether around your system.

You could have your system powered up and we could test to see if it disturbs the aether/ether in some way. If we found out that my system could detect an energy flow to your system, then we may figure out how to increase your systems energy flow so it would be even more efficient.

I wouldn't need to see your secret system and you wouldn't need to see my secret system. You would run your secret system and I would run my secret system. My secret system could detect your secret system from through a wall, and possibly through a hill if your system is powerful enough to detect.

We could also determine if your system was putting out any ether energy or if it was absorbing any ether energy, and if it was negative or positive in occurance. I wouldn't mind helping you out. Maybe my system would discover something unusual about your system that you were unaware of. But... we shall each keep our own secrets of how our systems work.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:55 PM
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To me this is what makes this site great.
One would be hard pressed to find such interaction between theories in the past.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by deadeyedick
To me this is what makes this site great.
One would be hard pressed to find such interaction between theories in the past.


Your right, in the past this kind of interaction would never have been possible. With a site like this, those that have kept guarded secrets can further their interests in many ways.

Let's face it, this is a great gathering place to discuss many things.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 11:23 PM
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Here's an interesting video: www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by RussianScientists
 


Lol you sound a lot like Tommy Bearden and Evgeny.
But you are right in saying that the universe would not exist, if there was no ZPE.
But for man to use ZPE in very large amounts has inherent dangers.
Yes you would be welcome to come over and make your measurements after my black box
is ready next winter, As of present am fixing to get back to work as I have to earn to make a living.
No I do not need any refrigerators or freezer or light bulbs to render a visible proof of time dilation.
Basically sky is the limit to the amount of different experimentation that can be performed using
my device.
Not to mention I will nedd to know your true identity.
Am also impressed with your research and results and in the meantime till we meet Good Luck.

Cheers



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by RussianScientists

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by RussianScientists
That is definitely a sign that their theory of how to build a detector to detect neutrinos is incorrect. Its my theory that the same exists for their theory of how to build a detector to detect the aether.


Neutrinos rarely interact with matter. Thus, it's tough to detect them.


Neutrinos are still a theory thats never been proven. Yes, it would be extremely hard to detect them, if they do exist, and if they do pass through all matter at almost the speed of light. But, why are so few neutrino particles detected... and why were even less detected at the polar nuetrino detector? What is it that can be detected coming from a nuclear power plant in a massive wave that isn't detectable with a scintillator at 8-13 miles from a nuclear power plant?


please expand these, it appears that most of these comments are speculative and are only written to misinform or at least give an impression of a knowledge that truly is not there.

There have been many demonstrations using a wide variety of detection techniques as to the existence of the neutrino.

A massive wave that isn't detectable with a scintillation 8-13 miles from a nuclear power plant? I know exactly what you are referring too and assuming we are talking about the same thing, it means that you are having an issue with basic kinematics, oh and standard model particle physics also.

So please expand with some detailed explanation please.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection
reply to post by RussianScientists
 


Lol you sound a lot like Tommy Bearden and Evgeny.
But you are right in saying that the universe would not exist, if there was no ZPE.
But for man to use ZPE in very large amounts has inherent dangers.
Yes you would be welcome to come over and make your measurements after my black box
is ready next winter, As of present am fixing to get back to work as I have to earn to make a living.
No I do not need any refrigerators or freezer or light bulbs to render a visible proof of time dilation.
Basically sky is the limit to the amount of different experimentation that can be performed using
my device.
Not to mention I will nedd to know your true identity.
Am also impressed with your research and results and in the meantime till we meet Good Luck.

Cheers


Yes, I'm quite sure you don't need any refrigerators or freezers or light bulbs to render a visible proof of time dilation.

But... I think you should run some experiments with your refrigerator/freezer and light bulbs for your "transmutation" experiments; that's what I was refering to. I think you could speed up your transmutation process by finding the right amount of heat. Obviously transmutation takes place in nature all the time, and most of the time its due to heat.

One man was claiming that he was transmuting stuff into gold at around 280 degrees over a period of time... that is if I remember right.

As for your black box, take your time, do it when you are ready to do it, and make sure that you have a secret place for it that no one will be able to get to when you aren't around. I always keep my stuff completely scattered so no one would be able to figure it out. One day, it took me two hours of serious searching just to find where I put all of the stuff.

Yes..ZPE is very dangerous, I found that out also; so now I'm a whole lot more respectful of it.

As for you, it is the same for me... the sky is the limit for experiments... there is no end to them.

As for my true identity... there is no hiding. Look down to my signiture and you can watch some very old 2009 videos of me and some of my discoveries years ago. They may be some boring videos, but they are very truthful, and very exacting... if they weren't then I would have taken them off of YouTube when I put them on YouTube, but there is nothing incorrect in what I stated in any of those videos.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by ErosA433

Originally posted by RussianScientists

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by RussianScientists
That is definitely a sign that their theory of how to build a detector to detect neutrinos is incorrect. Its my theory that the same exists for their theory of how to build a detector to detect the aether.


Neutrinos rarely interact with matter. Thus, it's tough to detect them.


Neutrinos are still a theory thats never been proven. Yes, it would be extremely hard to detect them, if they do exist, and if they do pass through all matter at almost the speed of light. But, why are so few neutrino particles detected... and why were even less detected at the polar nuetrino detector? What is it that can be detected coming from a nuclear power plant in a massive wave that isn't detectable with a scintillator at 8-13 miles from a nuclear power plant?


please expand these, it appears that most of these comments are speculative and are only written to misinform or at least give an impression of a knowledge that truly is not there.

There have been many demonstrations using a wide variety of detection techniques as to the existence of the neutrino.

A massive wave that isn't detectable with a scintillation 8-13 miles from a nuclear power plant? I know exactly what you are referring too and assuming we are talking about the same thing, it means that you are having an issue with basic kinematics, oh and standard model particle physics also.

So please expand with some detailed explanation please.


What is there to expand, look it up. See how many neutrinos are detected from current neutrino detectors, and even are less were detected at the south pole.. where they were expecting to detect far more; there is no misrepresentation at all. The Neutrino Theory is just that.. a theory.

Bring your scintillator, any brand you wish... you won't be able to detect the Wolf Creek Nuclear Power Plant from 8-13 miles away.

I doubt that you know what I'm reffering to, but my mind is awake to reading what you might enlighten me with here on ATS. As to kinematics, and standard model theoretical particle physics maybe you can enlighten me with what it is you are to suggest.

Yes, I'm very interested in you describing why using my special optical equipment after firing it up and readying it I can see with my own eyes exactly where the Wolf Creek Nuclear Power Plant is in the distance because I can see the energy coming from it through all of those hills, trees and other buildings. Without the equipment, nothing can be seen except the nearby landscape and no Wolf Creek Nuclear Power Plant at those distances or those locations; distances of 8-13 miles.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by RussianScientists
 


Pretty amazing reply there, You probably dont know that i have a PhD that happens to be in particle physics


Neutrino oscillation the cause? it has been studied and fits observations quite nicely. Kinematics forbid that a muon or tau neutrino (present due to oscillation) at the energy (a nuclear power plant produces) can produce its lepton partner via charge current interactions, which would be a direct observation. Only scattering, which for muon and tau neutrinos occurs with even a lower cross section than electron neutrino scattering does. There is no missing neutrino flux at the south pole that I am aware of that cant be explained by systematics, especially being the unknown optical path length in the ice at all depths. Maybe you can furbish me with a paper?

Neutrino physics hsa been examined very closely and there have been experiments that have produced electron neutrinos and observed electron production, muon neutrinos that produce muons and more recently tau neutrinos that go onto produce tau leptons... to say that the basic model of the neutrino and there being three generations that are coupled is not at all been proven is quite frankly an incorrect statement. To say a theory is wrong might be fair if the theory doesn't hold up to observables, but when the theory fits very well then to say it is wrong and produce exactly ZERO evidence other than to say "oh go find the sources yourself" is just bad form...

Respectfully, these posts are quite typical of the reasons that 'alternative' theory seems to go absolutely nowhere. I am a scientist and I would love to know to learn to understand everything that is around me. Posts like this which ask honest questions then get filled with personalities that seem to exist only to feed each others egos. Most of what alot of people talk about when they invent 'exotic devices' are never at all backed up, and when ever evidence or at least an explaination is asked, the response is always a backtrack and an excuse not to answer the question.

You can say anything is a theory... and you would be correct, but taking that it is a theory and ignoring that the theory fits the observables at a high level... then ignoring it as irrelevant is NOT science.

Furthermore, if you can 'see' the energy, what form does it take? if by see you mean optically then a standard CCD should also be able to see the energy once it has passed through this device/invention... please furbish us with a photograph taken through it... nothing fancy, a smart phone will do, dont need to break out anything expensive...
edit on 3-1-2013 by ErosA433 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by RussianScientists
 


Thanks for the link.
Pretty impressive tech you have but am sure that the tptb
or thr military industrial complex has tech that can detect from space
anyone tapping into the ZPE and have reason to believe that I have
been on their radar for decades



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by ErosA433
 


EA: Pretty amazing reply there, You probably dont know that i have a PhD that happens to be in particle physics,

RS: Great!!!(not sarcastic) You have a PhD in Physics... Where have you been all this time? Your the kind of person that I need to pick your brain, if you don't mind. Whatever you do, don't go away.

EA: Neutrino oscillation the cause?

RS: Interesting that you should state "oscillation" because when I was out there in the region of the Wolf Creek Nuclear Reactor on different occassions my equipment picked up oscillations EVERY TIME. The oscillations are quite obvious around that nuclear power plant, there is no doubt about them being everywhere outward to quite a few miles. My equipment hadn't detected oscillations like that before; only in the region of that nuclear reactor.

EA: There is no missing neutrino flux at the south pole that I am aware of that cant be explained by systematics, especially being the unknown optical path length in the ice at all depths. Maybe you can furbish me with a paper? To say a theory is wrong might be fair if the theory doesn't hold up to observables, but when the theory fits very well then to say it is wrong and produce exactly ZERO evidence other than to say "oh go find the sources yourself" is just bad form...

RS: Here is your article, part of the evidence you think doesn't exist, one of quite a few on the Internet. www.wired.com...
Don't take my word for it, here are the words from a "Neutrino Physicist" making the actual study, his paper was in the "Physical Review Letters".
"In 13 months of observing with the half-complete IceCube detector at the South Pole, “we didn’t see anything,” said neutrino physicist Nathan Whitehorn of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, co-author of a new Physical Review Letters paper describing the hunt. “We didn’t even have any close calls.”" There, I got rid of my bad form for you....

EA: Respectfully, these posts are quite typical of the reasons that 'alternative' theory seems to go absolutely nowhere. I am a scientist and I would love to know to learn to understand everything that is around me. Posts like this which ask honest questions then get filled with personalities that seem to exist only to feed each others egos. Most of what alot of people talk about when they invent 'exotic devices' are never at all backed up, and when ever evidence or at least an explaination is asked, the response is always a backtrack and an excuse not to answer the question.

RS: When people like myself "discover" scientific stuff that others haven't discovered, it usually pisses off the rest of the scientific world; especially when people like myself have the scientific background and have spent butt loads of our own money and our own time on our discoveries. As far as I can tell, most threads on ATS get filled with personalities.

Let's face it, we didn't know we were going to have a another physicist personality (we wouldn't have known that now would we unless there was ego in letting it be known) in this thread, but I personally am glad you came, because I'm hoping that a good relationship will come out of it, because I have made many great discoveries... but I do have to admit I don't have all the answers to them.

My exotic devices as you IMPLY aren't "exotic" but common and are backed up by normal science, there is nothing unscientific about my devices and none of my devices have broken any scientific laws, but my discoveries none-the-less have been GREAT! I'm not backtracking and I'm not making up any excuses, but you have had quite an imagination as to your implying things, which I hope that you can curb.

EA: You can say anything is a theory... and you would be correct, but taking that it is a theory and ignoring that the theory fits the observables at a high level... then ignoring it as irrelevant is NOT science.

RS: Obviously the Neutrino Theory has holes in it, otherwise a Neutrino Physicist wouldn't have stated the following. "In 13 months of observing with the half-complete IceCube detector at the South Pole, “we didn’t see anything,” said neutrino physicist Nathan Whitehorn of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, co-author of a new Physical Review Letters paper describing the hunt. “We didn’t even have any close calls.”

Obviously, according the the statement above by a Neutrino Physicist, the theory doesn't fit the observables at a high level as you have implied.

EA: Furthermore, if you can 'see' the energy, what form does it take? furbish us with a photograph

RS: No deal. I have my secrets, you are stepping over the line. That would reveal too much information, and you know it.


edit on 4-1-2013 by RussianScientists because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection
reply to post by RussianScientists
 


Thanks for the link.
Pretty impressive tech you have but am sure that the tptb
or thr military industrial complex has tech that can detect from space
anyone tapping into the ZPE and have reason to believe that I have
been on their radar for decades


I'm sure tptb and the military became highly interested in your device back in 2006 when you patented it, so I'm sure you've been on their radar since then. They may have looked at your equipment from outer space by using telescopic infrared and radar, but I'm sure they can't tell when you are tapping into the zero point energy. Their equipment isn't that sophisticated, because if it was, then they would have been in specific places at specific times; but they weren't there. But I'm pretty sure they're using that energy though in their own secret space ships.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by RussianScientists


I'm sure tptb and the military became highly interested in your device back in 2006 when you patented it, so I'm sure you've been on their radar since then. They may have looked at your equipment from outer space by using telescopic infrared and radar, but I'm sure they can't tell when you are tapping into the zero point energy. Their equipment isn't that sophisticated, because if it was, then they would have been in specific places at specific times; but they weren't there. But I'm pretty sure they're using that energy though in their own secret space ships.


No not from 2008 but I think in the early 80s, I told a British gentleman,
that it was my ambition to invent anti gravity, and another british gengtleman
reminded ( after I told him about my device in 2010 ) me that , wasn't it your
ambition to invent anti gravity.
Both British gentlemen were by no means any important persons in tptb but normal
engineers like you and me.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 09:54 AM
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The article you cite says the comments are made in the context of Neutrino Emissions from Gamma Ray Bursts, which they found no evidence for. This doesn't punch any holes in neutrino theory, but holes in probably energy generation schemes for Gamma ray bursts. It feels to me quite out of context.

Gamma Ray Bursts are an exotic phenomenon which are under intense study, the reason we might expect neutrinos from them is that they are an enormously high energy event, and some of the popular theories are coalescing neutron stars and the formation of blackholes. Given that something of the order 99% of energy that comes out of a supernova actually comes out in neutrinos (this has been observed and actually was the breakthrough when theorists were trying to simulate a supernova...(You see without the massive neutrino flux, they don't really explode, they more 'fizzle'))

Other neutrino fluxes, from the sun, from cosmic rays would appear to be within the known regions of expectation, I know this because we had a talk from a near completion graduate student. All the data she gave out was exactly how it might be expected.


Neutrino oscillation occurs at long baselines and isn't an oscillation in the sense of making things vibrate as im sure you already know, the further you step away the neutrino single flavour survival probability oscillates but without knowing about what energy they are I couldnt tell you on what scale you would expect to see the maxima or minima in the electron neutrino flavour states.


You are also wrong, when people discover something new it doesn't piss us off at all. Like I said, scientists want to understand and know what is happening... So when someone claims to have done something new and brilliant the 'pissing off' factor is actually a bit of a myth or is more a representation of a frustration of the lack of forthcoming of information. The biggest scientific discoveries made down the years were made by people proving theory wrong... not right... yes the media might present science as being 'pissed off or angry' but what they actually report is the bruising of a small number of egos, that unfortunately take all the spotlight, while all others involved in the field are more interested in what is happening than anything else.


The 'no deal' as you speak is exactly were some of this doubt and frustration comes from I hope you will understand. This is because scientists are held accountable and scrutinized at such a high level that quite often anything and everything we say has to be 100% correct or people start to accuse us of being liars or cheating the public in someway... much like the above link being taken out of context. This is not a hostility towards as you suggest 'people who invent things that go against the main stream' but how this group often hold themselves out of reach and often in a manner that taunts or tries to poke holes in the main stream, and yet do not ever accept the same scrutiny back... all with the rouse of 'I need to keep this secret'

You know how much fuss it would cause if the ice cube detector was built in secret? There would be conspiracies galore
edit on 4-1-2013 by ErosA433 because: just an extra thought to be put on 'paper'



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection

Originally posted by RussianScientists


I'm sure tptb and the military became highly interested in your device back in 2006 when you patented it, so I'm sure you've been on their radar since then. They may have looked at your equipment from outer space by using telescopic infrared and radar, but I'm sure they can't tell when you are tapping into the zero point energy. Their equipment isn't that sophisticated, because if it was, then they would have been in specific places at specific times; but they weren't there. But I'm pretty sure they're using that energy though in their own secret space ships.


No not from 2008 but I think in the early 80s, I told a British gentleman,
that it was my ambition to invent anti gravity, and another british gengtleman
reminded ( after I told him about my device in 2010 ) me that , wasn't it your
ambition to invent anti gravity.
Both British gentlemen were by no means any important persons in tptb but normal
engineers like you and me.


Unfortunately many people are interested in negating gravity, and many of them are waisting everyones time.

It seems like ZPE is what could be used to negate gravity, and you must be close to making a great discovery, or a greater discovery. I'd like to see floating cities in the sky being built, that will move continuously around the world. Floating cities in the sky will be a reality, and further knowledge of the aether/ether and ZPE is what will make it happen. When it does happen, the planet Earth can be put back into its original pristine condition; water, vegitation, birds and animals.

Have you read about Vicktor Schauberger, or Otis T. Carr; they were on to something, since both of them actually built spacecraft. Otis T. Carr seemed to have tapped into the ether/aether somewhat. Ralph Ring tells most of the Otis T. Carr story on YouTube videos.





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