If Not Elsewhere? WHY HERE? Empty Crusades., page 4

reply to post by Hefficide

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I would indict the queen in litigation against the term "natural" and "fundamental" law.

Except I know how to, and the costs are extraordinary.

reply to post by Hefficide

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I cannot believe I am trying to find words to explain to a person, whom I assume to be an adult, that two wrongs don't make a right. That it takes two to tango. That you are responsible for your own actions, and it's the height of deflection and irresponsibility to portray it as Well some guy on the Internet said stuff and he made me have to say stuff back... it's his fault....

There is absolutely nothing wrong about defending yourself against someone who is verbally assaulting you. If you don't know that, then you don't know the difference between right and wrong.

You don't think I read the comments on other sites? I see ATS going that way. I see too many trolls racking up points who contribute nothing but personal attacks.

I don't blame you personally Hef, just explaining what I see.

reply to post by 12m8keall2c

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Sometimes ignoring the troll works, but you can't unread something. Your mood is already spoiled.

And when you take the time to report the troll, and nothing gets done, or they get an off topic warning, when they should have been hit with a violation, it is all that more irritating. It is extremely irritating when a good poster, who is contributing to the discussion, gets a violation for making the troll look like the idiot they usually are.

Here is a suggestion, most new threads always have some troll show up on the fist page. Nip it in the bud, and hit the troll with a violation right away, and end the bickering right away.

Monitor the new threads.

reply to post by poet1b

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Letting your mood get spoiled just makes the troll successful in their troll. No, you can't unread something, but they're just words. They only have the power you give them, etc.

I like to hop over on youtube and listen to a song, then if i'm still at odds with a post, I'll report it. The thing I don't do is intentionally go back and check to see if it got handled. It might be frustrating, but I can always occupy myself with something else.

reply to post by forgetmenot

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If you have to hop over to utube for a song, then it effected you. It is nice to think, that in a Buddhist kind of way, you can just tune it out, but no.

When the mods let certain trolls keep on trolling, often debunkers and conservatives, they are not doing their job in the best interest of the site. When a poster starts telling others they don't know what they are talking about, their post is ignorant or nonsense, it doesn't matter which side of the issue they are on, it draws a reaction, and when the mods don't do their jobs and punish such behavior, such behavior breeds like rats.

It doesn't take much effort or technique to strongly disagree with someone without being rude. But this should include a reason for such strong disagreement. This is how an intelligent discussion takes place.

When mods allow one or two posters insult everyone on the thread, and refuse to do something about it, and even go so far as to punish those who retaliate, it is extremely messed up, and I see it all too often.

I understand Hefs need to rant.

Want to stop the madness, demand that the mods evenly enforce a fair set of rules.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by 12m8keall2c

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but you can't unread something. Your mood is already spoiled.

No. You can't. But.. And at the same time, No. It shouldn't be, necessarily - Your 'mood spoiled', that is. ??

As a fellow Member has previously alluded to ...

You ... and Only ... You .... decide or determine what 'impact' or 'effect' another's words, posts etc have on You.


We raised our kids along these same lines ...

That...
You will never be able to 'control' the actions or efforts of others
But, and at the same time ...
You Are Always In Control Of and Over your participation in or lack thereof the same.

(?)

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by forgetmenot

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If you have to hop over to utube for a song, then it effected you. It is nice to think, that in a Buddhist kind of way, you can just tune it out, but no.

edit on 1-1-2013 by poet1b because: expand a point

That's definitely a fair point, but the important part is choosing not to let yourself get involved in an argument with the troll, or get wrapped up in whether or not they've been punished for their transgression. Surely at that point you've let yourself be effected far more than if you had just done something else after reporting the post.

If trolls aren't worth our time then why give them our time willfully? You could make the argument that they shouldn't even be reported; just ignore them outright. If they don't get the attention they want they'll leave, solving the problem themselves. That breaks down in reality, obviously, because sometimes people just don't know or care they're being trolled. Still, I think it is possible to just flat out ignore the trolls.

reply to post by 12m8keall2c

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We raised our kids along these same lines ...

That...
You will never be able to 'control' the actions or efforts of others
But, and at the same time ...

Honestly, I raise my kid to stand up for herself.

Yes, we can and do control the actions of others. The only reason people troll on the internet, saying things they would never dare say to someone's face, is because they are not exposed to physical confrontation. ATS is better than most open forums, because it does have mods to punish offenders of community standards, and it does curb the trolls. Ignoring the bad behavior of some groups only encourages them.

And, I think part of it is that the people attracted to ATS are the kind of people to speak up, so in general, not going after trolls for most of us is against our grain. We are what we are, and that is what we are. toot toot.

reply to post by Hefficide

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But this morning, while I was in the shower - where I do most of my quality thinking, it occurred to me. These people are sssooo freaking fake in their supposed sincerity. I mean it hit me like a ton of bricks. Sure, they crusade here - and it looks honorable and noble to some other folks. But think about it. Are any of these people popping-up and saying "Great, I went to work today and tried to tell everyone there about my thoughts on this issue. The boss told me company policy forbade such discussion... But, damn it, freedom of speech matters so much to me that I INSISTED he shut up and let me speak. I got fired for my beliefs! I feel THAT strongly about the subject!"

What a load of bull. You are seriously comparing talking on a conspiracy website with the motto "deny ignorance", to talking in the workplace?

First off the analogy is ridiculous, second, no boss has ever told me I could not talk about what I wanted while at work, and they don't even have the motto this site has.

You are surprised that people continue to speak their minds here? That is beyond retarted.

Hell no they haven't. And they won't. Why not? Because they've got common sense! That's right. Sense enough not to tamper with their own lives. So why do it here? Why front like a crusader when the truth is that you won't even bloody your blade? Why engage in empty rhetoric here when it's not important enough to really stand up for?

Because this is a discussion forum? Because you promise that ingnorance is denied here?

I don't get the confusion here, seems pretty straightforward. What else should people do in such a situation? If the beef is on this forum, where else should they fight?

Of course the answer is obvious. They do it here because there is nothing to lose here. Getting banned isn't really a threat. So it's the perfect place to act like a crusader and to play games with whatever following you can attract. If they get banned along with you? Bonus lulz.

Again, if the beef originated here, where else should they do it?

Fake crusaders don't really want the Feds knocking on their front doors to take a formal statement about what they say they believe. They don't want to be on record saying the crazy stuff they DEMAND the "right" to say here.

Again, you make no sense at all. Off course nobody wants FEDS knocking on their door, but this is anonymous conspracy website that claims to deny ignorance.

Your logic is ridiculous.

You ever see a thread titled "Cartoons Are Disclosure!!!" and then a statement that the OP believes strongly enough in that fact that he/she is going to test it by dropping an anvil on their head? Running off of a cliff to see if they really do hover there for 2 seconds? Smoke dynamite to see if they'll survive the explosion blackened, and moving their nose back in place - from the back of their head? Ya ever see a thread from somebody wanting to know where the real world Acme products mail order company can be found at?

What are you rambling on about?

But this morning, while I was in the shower - where I do most of my quality thinking,

Is this the result?

For them I say: If you see a member in meltdown and sympathize or empathize with them. Ask yourself? Do they really have a valid point that they are genuinely moved by? Or are they just empty crusaders looking for an environment where they can stir the pot and get their jollies at the expense of others.

In other words, don't sympathize with those that got beef with ATS, over ATS actions.

That was the whole point of this thread right?

reply to post by Hefficide

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Of course the answer is obvious. They do it here because there is nothing to lose here.

Ok, then you guys should try shut people up in real life like you do on here and see how that works out for ya.

You got nothing to lose here.

Try some of the stuff you people do here in real life and see how long your behavior lasts.

reply to post by OmniPotential

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Brand new account, complaining so emotionally. I'm guessing you've been here before.

Either way... I spent my entire career in management and have spent most of my life enforcing the rules in the real world - and here I am, alive and well. Your post is a prime example of what I mean. In the real world you'd likely accept the rules of whatever environment you are in, and abide by them by default, without the hyperbole or idiocy. Unless you are posting from a prison day room, then you'd have to accept this as fact.

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by OmniPotential

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Brand new account, complaining so emotionally. I'm guessing you've been here before.

Either way... I spent my entire career in management and have spent most of my life enforcing the rules in the real world - and here I am, alive and well. Your post is a prime example of what I mean. In the real world you'd likely accept the rules of whatever environment you are in, and abide by them by default, without the hyperbole or idiocy. Unless you are posting from a prison day room, then you'd have to accept this as fact.

~Heff

You hide behind your rules, but I am not talking about rules, I am talking about censorship of subjects and shutting people up because you don´t like the direction a discussion is going.

This never happened to me in real life at any venue, and these places didn´t even have the motto deny ignorance.

Again, try to shut people up¨in real life like you do here and see what happens.

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