Smartest Man in America says God exists

reply to post by Runciter33


i am not the smartest man in america - but i would like to see evidence of an aledged god - not opinion

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
reply to post by grainofsand

 

The evidence is life and existence itself.

Nope, thats just your belief and assertion, it is not evidence.

It is practically axiomatic. Life would have to be evidence of a creator. Look up the definition of creator in the context of God. Unless we can only consider evidences that conform to your "Beliefs and assertions" Talk about moving the goal post.

reply to post by grainofsand


Your answer was a cop out.
The original poster said that life itself was evidence of a Creator.

You said that was an assertion. I was merely inquiring how you square the vast variety of trees and plants in your own mind.

If you have not come up with your own rationale then please cite someone else's rationale you adhere to.

Originally posted by NihilistSanta

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
reply to post by grainofsand

 

The evidence is life and existence itself.

Nope, thats just your belief and assertion, it is not evidence.

It is practically axiomatic. Life would have to be evidence of a creator. Look up the definition of creator in the context of God. Unless we can only consider evidences that conform to your "Beliefs and assertions" Talk about moving the goal post.

edit on 30-12-2012 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)

More assertions based on unproven metaphysical pseudo science theorising and predefined assumtions.
My goal posts remain at the original dimensions since first contributing to this thread.

reply to post by grainofsand


I assumed that you might be a student of philosophy but apparently not. Perhaps when you have a firmer grasp on logic and rhetoric we will finish this conversation. Apparently you want a convenient answer which is just not logical. You have no parameters for God so you would not recognize the evidence when presented with it.

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
reply to post by grainofsand

 

Your answer was a cop out.

Another assertion.

The original poster said that life itself was evidence of a Creator.

And that clearly is not evidence, it is an assertion based on a faith which is untestable.

You said that was an assertion.

It was, clearly.

I was merely inquiring how you square the vast variety of trees and plants in your own mind.

Irrelevant to the argument supporting the assertions.

If you have not come up with your own rationale then please cite someone else's rationale you adhere to.

Why? I do not assert there are no gods. The onus of proof does not lay on my contributions to this thread.
It does appear a challenge to the theists to provide this allegedly obvious evidence all around us though.

reply to post by NihilistSanta

It is practically axiomatic. Life would have to be evidence of a creator. Look up the definition of creator in the context of God. Unless we can only consider evidences that conform to your "Beliefs and assertions" Talk about moving the goal post.

98% of all documented species are extinct. I suppose that's all part of the design?

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


It's that or God is a real jerk.

Originally posted by Runciter33

Christopher Michael Langan (born c. 1952) is an American autodidact whose IQ was reported by 20/20 and other media sources to have been measured at between 195 and 210.[1] Billed by some media sources as "the smartest man in America",[2] he rose to prominence in 1999 while working as a bouncer on Long Island. Langan has developed his own "theory of the relationship between mind and reality" which he calls the "Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe (CTMU)"

Heard this guy on coast to coast am recently, and found him pretty fascinating. Anyways, here are quotes from him on wikipedia;

I believe in the theory of evolution, but I believe as well in the allegorical truth of creation theory. In other words, I believe that evolution, including the principle of natural selection, is one of the tools used by God to create mankind. Mankind is then a participant in the creation of the universe itself, so that we have a closed loop. I believe that there is a level on which science and religious metaphor are mutually compatible.

Langan explains on his website that he believes "since Biblical accounts of the genesis of our world and species are true but metaphorical, our task is to correctly decipher the metaphor in light of scientific evidence also given to us by God". He explains

In explaining this relationship, the CTMU shows that reality possesses a complex property akin to self-awareness. That is, just as the mind is real, reality is in some respects like a mind. But when we attempt to answer the obvious question "whose mind?", the answer turns out to be a mathematical and scientific definition of God. This implies that we all exist in what can be called "the Mind of God", and that our individual minds are parts of God's Mind. They are not as powerful as God's Mind, for they are only parts thereof; yet, they are directly connected to the greatest source of knowledge and power that exists. This connection of our minds to the Mind of God, which is like the connection of parts to a whole, is what we sometimes call the soul or spirit, and it is the most crucial and essential part of being human.[25]

Langan has said elsewhere that he does not belong to any religious denomination, explaining that he "can't afford to let [his] logical approach to theology be prejudiced by religious dogma."[14] He calls himself "a respecter of all faiths, among peoples everywhere."

en.wikipedia.org...

Anyone heard of him before? What are your thoughts on his 'Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe'?

Here is his website as well, which can also be found at the wikipedia link above.

www.megainternational.org...

Well, the basic concept of the Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe is very similar with my philosophy regarding an individual's will with God's will. I even made a thread about it; its called My Will Is God's Will.

In this thread, I make the assessment Free Will does not exist as our will is technically planned, and if our will is planned to happen, it is God's will to allow it to happen. Therefore, my will is part of God's will.

And the same ideas regarding evolution and creation of mankind, although the account of Adam and Eve I take to be literal. The whole creation of earth is the part to be taken figuratively.

reply to post by NihilistSanta


Hear, hear. He acts as if trees and a multitude of varied complex life forms are not physical evidence and just hypothetical assertions that they actually exist!

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
reply to post by grainofsand

 

I assumed that you might be a student of philosophy but apparently not. Perhaps when you have a firmer grasp on logic and rhetoric we will finish this conversation. Apparently you want a convenient answer which is just not logical. You have no parameters for God so you would not recognize the evidence when presented with it.

If you assert there is a god then you have to remember that it is a faith based position which you are unable to provide evidence for.
I do not assert there are no gods, as such an assertion could not be supported with conclusive evidence.
If one asserts 'there are gods' then the burden of proof is on their shoulders alone.

Great minds think differently..

If I told you that the device you're using right now to read my post was created itself from nothing after an explosion at a factory you would say I'm affected with madness. But of course, how can a small, complex, well organised device which is made perfectly for us to use be made by chance and without any intelligent designer. It's absolutely stupid to say such a thing. But when I say that the Universe and everything in it, with all its beauty and incredibly complex systems which is beyond human comprehension but so perfectly designed and precisely regulated and provides for every one of our needs, was created by an All-Powerful Being, Who is Sustaining this Universe every moment, Who is Most Gracious and Merciful, you say I'm mad?

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

Hear, hear. He acts as if trees and a multitude of varied complex life forms are not physical evidence and just hypothetical assertions that they actually exist!

Well, explain the direct and obvious link which trees etc provide as evidence that gods created them? I do not see it.
Remember at all times though that you assert god/s are involved, I do not assert the opposite, just that the evidence is lacking.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

It is practically axiomatic. Life would have to be evidence of a creator. Look up the definition of creator in the context of God. Unless we can only consider evidences that conform to your "Beliefs and assertions" Talk about moving the goal post.

98% of all documented species are extinct. I suppose that's all part of the design?

“Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.” - Homer Simpson to Kent Brockman.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

98% of all documented species are extinct. I suppose that's all part of the design?

NO. Thats the result of interference by people. Mostly greedy men.

Just tell me how life got here.

reply to post by NihilistSanta


That doesn't sound like an argument to me. There has to be something out there you can dig up to support your claims.

reply to post by grainofsand


The evidence is that they exhibit intelligent design.

No one passes by a house and thinks, "Oh dear, there was another explosion at the Home Depot", in order
to account for it's new presence in their neighborhood.

Nor would anyone see a hummingbird hovering over a flower and think either one of those things occured
because there was an explosion in the universe and a spatter of random particles landed here.
Not if he or she were a thinking person, that is.

Your thread title is an oxymoron.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


The Catholic church and the Vatican have all but said that the story of Adam and Eve was just that. A story told to illustrait a point. The only part you take as literal is the part that the church made up.

www.sodahead.com...