Submerged Prehistoric Archaeology...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/dd50e0395f.jpg[/atsimg]Researching submerged prehistoric archaeology

Researchers from various academic and professional backgrounds are working together to better understand submerged prehistoric landscapes and their significance through a four-year EU-funded research network project entitled Submerged Prehistoric Archaeology and Landscapes of the Continental Shelf.

Eight project partners from six EU countries recently travelled to Malta to join representatives from the University’s Department of Classics and Archaeology to dive to some unique submerged geological features.

The project also seeks to provide training opportunities for young researchers

As many of you already know I've been advocating a much more in depth study of our now submerged ancient ice age coastlines for years. Don't get me wrong. There are many such activities taking place all around the world already but I think the general public should be made aware of the possibility that those now submerged coastlines may hold the key to many long standing mysteries in human history.

Many here are familiar with the controversial sites off of Japan and India's West Coast and the arguments as to whether they were once used by Ancient Cultures/Civilizations or are they simply "Natural" features? But those two sites are the topic for another thread...

When the article mentioned Malta [One of my Absolutely Favorite Ancient sites] I felt compelled to share with those who are unaware of a potential game changer as far as Human timelines. Which has been staring us in the face for quite some time. The controversial [enigma for some] of the Maltese "Cart Ruts"[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/bw50e04078.jpg[/atsimg]

Now it's been widely known for years that many of these cart ruts run from quarries to along side Ancient Temples and some run right into and continue along submerged into the Mediterranean.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/xk50e040da.jpg[/atsimg] [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/uy50e0403a.jpg[/atsimg]

There are a couple of nearby smaller Islands which also show ruts both running into the sea and crisscrossing dry land.

The question becomes for some is this. Are these ruts evidence of a much older culture/civilization using the Islands as a source for megalithic stones for construction and these now submerged tracks prove that the area in question where the tracks run under water was once dry land [Pre-Ice age melt off] which could potentially put them at around 10,000 +/- B.C. that were then flooded in Prehistory when the Ice Age Melt off occurred? [Which by the way this means those ruts would predate the first known use of the wheel by a great many centuries]

Or

Are those tracks simply the result [as many in academic circles believe] (Subsidence)?


Whatever the case may be, I'm just glad these and other locations will be explored. I just hope those doing the investigation will do so with no other agenda than trying to discover whatever is there as apposed to trying to prove or disprove a preconceived paradigm.....

One just never knows what one might find from our ancient submerged lost past.

reply to post by SLAYER69


There will be many more great and unexpected finds in underwater research, thanks for your advocacy of those endeavors and for sharing this. A little off topic, but I'm convinced that historical artifacts will be found in great quantity in Antartica someday, and underwater searches off of its coast may yield some of those.

interesting indeed slayer,
my first thoughts were train tracks
ruts dosnt sound right to me, to get them tracks rutted as deep as they are from wooden wheels just wouldnt happen, and stone wheels would break up and crumble before any damage occured to the ground imho.
so 'ruts' isnt a good name for them.
tracks sounds better.
so they would have to of been dug out for something to traverse along these specific tracks on a regular basis, like you said they go from quarry to monuments etc.
as to what it was that made its journeys along these is up for debate.

basically im saying they are not ruts, but are made specifically for a purpose.

reply to post by GezinhoKiko


Unless....

The timeline is way off and those ruts were produced by wheel at a time before the ground solidified which would put the time frame much much earlier than even I'm willing to speculate about..

reply to post by SLAYER69


well now youve gone and done it!
but yes its its a possibility
i dont see any problem with stating there was megalithic builders 50,000, 100,000 years ago
i dont see why people are afraid of these possibilities

heres a good documentary on such a thing (no builders, just aging fear)

reply to post by GezinhoKiko


Just for giggles.

Speaking of a possible much older heritage on Malta...

From Who Were the Ancient Megalithic Builders?

When I first saw Gobekli Tepe I was amazed not because of it's purported age but to my eyes it reminded me of another ancient site. A quick comparison of the two.

Gobekli Tepe

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fbc5579c67cf.jpg[/atsimg]

MALTA: Mnajdra Temple

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/434c4a0ba52c.jpg[/atsimg]

Now, I'm not saying there are any direct connections between the two however one has to admit it does raise some rather interesting questions about it's age. On the island of Malta we find many rather interesting structures. Here again we find a paradox. Some of the sites on Malta show several types of construction. For example, On the one hand we find very large huge rough cut megalithic stones similar to the ones we find all over Europe next to what appears to be well thought out cut blocks and slabs stones similar to Dolmens found elsewhere.

Malta

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8c5c968a0d30.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b67f579c57fc.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/432a6d408580.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by GezinhoKiko

i dont see any problem with stating there was megalithic builders 50,000, 100,000 years ago i dont see why people are afraid of these possibilities

Because "scientific consensus" likens those who even remotely hint at things similar to what Michael Cremo might say, as madmen and whacko's. You may as well believe in the tooth fairy.

For me, personally. I'm with you. I don't see the problem if there is evidence to support the paradigm. But unfortunately, the money for further research always goes to those who stay within consensus, and don't venture too far outside of it.

Still, little by little, they're pushing those dates back further and further. Whether that's by design, or by find, I'm not always sure. But then, admittedly, I'm quite cynical of the mainstream.

reply to post by GezinhoKiko


Actually rubber can cut steel over time, I see it everyday, so those could be ruts from a cart. There is evidence that man lived alongside the dinosaur. There is evidence that man was 20 feet tall in that period. During that period everything was big and there was plenty to eat and oxygen levels were higher.Whether they created a civilization or not is still unknown. Food sources were plentiful so they may not have had a need to. 200 million years is certainly a long enough time for any evidence of such to be buried or under water and not found yet. The dates of first civilzations keep getting pushed further and further back in any case.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Ancient underwater ruins always fascinated me.
Especially the "ruts" in what seems to be stone, to the sea.
Almost as if they were made more than 100,000+ years ago.
Which would turn modern science on its proverbial axis.

I believe we have much to learn about our past.
There are too many sites laying untouched, and unexplainable.
Which should be the focus of alot more attention.
Hopefully this will be fruitful.
Not hidden...


Excellent thread.
(And quit changing your avatar! Deniro was sweet!)

reply to post by havok


The age of the ruts for me have always been up for debate.
Avatar: Just checking a size adjustment on the other

reply to post by SLAYER69

If the ground and stone had the same quality of crags and bumpiness, the people dragging "something" to make the ruts (did they use horses at the time?) had to either walk in the middle or in the ruts themselves. The look of the ruts seems to me to indicate the wheel existed at the time - and I don't know why every culture didn't invent the wheel very quickly once they got around to moving weighty objects. In any case, they sure do look like wheel ruts. Do they vary greatly in width?

reply to post by Aleister


One of the links I've provided does mention variance in rut width and gauge.

The gauge of the paired ruts averages about 1.4 m (~4.5 ft) apart. At Naxxar, the gauge varies between 130-152 cm; at Buskett-Dingli, measures range from 137-160 cm. At Msirah Ghar il-Kbir (a.k.a. Clapham Junction), the rut clusters range between 137-141 cm.

Now are they from the wheel or slid?
AND, what were they used for and how much weight did they drag and by what means, foot or horse?

Are these ruts evidence of a much older culture/civilization using the Islands as a source for megalithic stones for construction and these now submerged tracks prove that the area in question where the tracks run under water was once dry land [Pre-Ice age melt off] which could potentially put them at around 10,000 +/- B.C. that were then flooded in Prehistory when the Ice Age Melt off occurred?

reply to post by SLAYER69
The answer is no, which leads to questions because they are clearly "cart" tracks. I can think of no other explanation.

was once dry land

is where it begins to not make sense.

Why are there tracks? The tracks were created by carts carrying stone. The ground must have been soft, which is why the same track would be used.
How would the track remain as it is? The track was created under water by a mixture of the seabed clay and the stone.

The tracks were not created on dry land. The tracks could not have been created on dry land as they are.

reply to post by jimmiec


There is little or no evidence that man, as we know him, lived among dinosaurs (unless you mean birds) or that man grew to 20 feet high...but if they did, then moving a cart either by giant hand or by lashing a team of dinos to it, would be much easier.

To Slayer, thanks, the variance in size is pretty minimal, so it looks like whatever was used to create the tracks must have been a "standard size" thing, maybe bumping along the sides of the tracks at many points which would wear them down.. I like the idea of specialized tracks. Could there have been a wooden structure using the ruts as a base, a structure which would make it easier to pull with ropes while at the same time people could also be pushing from behind?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Lets just say, for arguments sake, that our friend Ka-Aper is correct in his premise of the tracks being constructed for a purpose.

Now, could the differences in track widths, account for multiple "carts" of various sizes and types?

After all, if you were quarrying continuously, it would make sense to have various transfer points within the array to make the whole exercise more economical and efficient.

Just like a modern day container terminal.

Another top notch post Slayer.

S&F

reply to post by Sublimecraft


The variance in rut width and gauge could have been caused by many reasons chief among them IMO is that no two carts or popular designs at the time were exactly the same.

Or, various cart designs from a multitude of generations were used over a much longer period of time

reply to post by Sublimecraft


Given that the ruts would have been created over a very long period of time it could be assumed that the wheels could have evolved or that the axles could have worn which would create a wobble and a wider rut. Or if the wider ruts are at a point of curvature water running through them from rain could have that effect. Much like a river does.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Star and flag for you. You always bring interesting posts, that intrigue, and are informative.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Malta has always been one of those places that really interested me as it seemed we have so much to learn from her. I can't wait to hear what they find in the depths around her, and as you said, hope they search with open minds.

Another great thread Slayer! Thank you. S&F ~Lu

reply to post by SLAYER69


Great thread again Slayer!
Its amazing the amount of ancient structures are now underwater-It must all go back to the time of the great flood stories we read about in so many cultures across the globe.

But I think it could have been more than just a flood-maybe something more like Hapgood's"crustal displacement theory."
There are tales of fire from the sky,which may suggest some major volcanic events as well as the floods.
Amazing some humans survived that time.
I wonder what caused the change in the planet,if anyone saw it coming at the time,and if we today could do anything to save civilisation if we were faced with something similar...
I doubt we could do much really in the face of natures wrath.

Fascinating subject as usual Slayer.