The Dachau Massacre. The Slaughter of Nazis in Death Camps During WW2.

If I were commanding the American soldiers at the time, I would have done the same. It's war, after all, and you're not supposed to be nice to your enemies in a war, especially when your enemies are evil Nazis.

I don't know that I have much sympathy over it. I have heard of these things before as well but to say they were innocent germans just following orders is very misleading. I think soldiers in any army are conditioned and hitler's army was very conditioned to hate and torture the jews and anyone else in the camp... the things they did to fellow human beings is still unimaginable to me. How can you watch and kill women and children in the way the did and not be affected by it? To believe your doing an honorable thing for your country? I don't have much if any sympathy for those conditioned soldiers unless your argument is that they could have been "unconditioned" after the war but that is highly speculative too because hate is not an easy thing to override in one's mindset.

reply to post by diqiushiwojia


2 Words to that.

Geneva Conventions.

Originally posted by gnosticagnostic
I don't know that I have much sympathy over it. I have heard of these things before as well but to say they were innocent germans just following orders is very misleading.

No one has stated that at all.

reply to post by ladyteeny


You're aware there were rapes, murders, thefts, and vandalism committed by allied soldiers in germany right? Because of that very hatred your grandfather spoke of.

If it were me, I would have handed weapons to the people in the concentration camp, and let them be the judge of their captors.

I like this thread. It seems to have a wide range of attitudes and opinions. This format is a mixed blessing in that it prevents loud and potentially physical altercations taking place; there is also a miscommunication in the tone intended while he written by one person vs. the tone read by another.

I shall be as clear as possible:

Grandad flew for the US in both Europe & the Pacific. I grew up in america, was born red blooded and taught to hate the crimes against humanity globally.

I have since learned that crimes were rampant in every nation against all skin colors, faiths and hairstyles. I say read more. Learn more. Stay objective, as an observer. When doing so you can see hate words, tho potentially unintentional, in any authors retelling.

Remember, the victor writes history.

That photo at the top doesn't reflect the outburst of one 19 yr old kid. There are a pile of dead bodies at the feet of 4 men dressed in Nazi uniforms.

My understanding of Dachau is that, being the first camp was also located in a town (forgive my memory, I'm not stopping to Google). US soldiers, having fought their way by ground, losing colleagues in Normandy by the dozens, tromped thru Germany liberating the suppressed. Conquering German soldiers. Winning. Bolstered and bullied by Generals. There had be unbelieveabble rumors of these mass killings, but I remember my grandmother telling me they were too far fetched. And the truth wasn't revealed until we walked into Dachau.

Imagine. You are 23. Tired, cold, wet and hungry and have seen your only connections to HOME die to your left and right. Brains and blood have no social hierachy when spilled on the ground. Then you walk into Dachau. Emaciated vacant skeletons walking aimlessly. Fear in your skin. Bile in your mouth.

I imagine allowing former prisoners to torture and kill their oppressors would seem to be justified to young men enraged and shocked by what they saw. I imagine I'd be just fine with killing a few myself.

My father was on the first bus of draftees to leave Dallas for training at Camp Bowie at the age of 21.... It was seldom that he spoke about being in the 141st Infantry Regiment and being one with The Lost Battalion that the Japanese American 442nd Regimental Combat Team was finally able to bail them out of the situation they were in while surrounded by German forces in the Vosges mountains .... He did get upset and cry while watching a television program once when naked bodies of Jewish people that had starved in the concentration camp were being bulldozed into huge mass graves... He had been where what we were seeing on TV had been filmed and at the time had to carry decaying bodies, throw them into piles sometimes in pieces as they fell apart.... The overwhelming stench was so bad that it permeated clothing and skin making it impossible to eat anything except a few crackers for days and not vomit .... Once I'd asked him if he had been afraid of being captured... He told that being captured meant that your war was over whether you were an American or German.. He had to guard German prisoners at times and said they were nice guys and they joked back and forth with each other... When his unit reached Berlin, Russian troops were there also... The Americans were having to protect German POWs from the Russians while they were marching them from place to place... If a POW so much as made eye contact with a Russian they would break past the Guards and stab as many of them as he could.... Much of what he said was contradictory and made no sense at the time... I had to experience my own war before I realized why it made no sense and came to the conclusion that there isn't anything about warfare that makes any sense....

reply to post by hypervigilant


From what I have been told, read, and learned, the Soviets were just awful with Germans. The rape of Berlin, the mass killings, torture, all of it. They did allot that most dont know of. I dont say we should even revisit that time to point a finger, but if you want to stay objective, you have to realize what everyone was doing to each other to TRY to understand.

reply to post by johncarter


I'm sure your Grandfather would be proud of you spewing your bile all over this thread.

It would seem you were the one who fell asleep in history class. The lesson to be learnt is that Nazis who committed crimes were human beings - ordinary people in fact - and that such things could easily happen again.

Instead you ignorantly equate Nazis with dogs (which incidentally the Nazis did the same things with Jews and compared them to rats) and rant on hysterically as if we should somehow applaud you.

I haven't read a post where someone has defended the actions of the Nazis. They committed deplorable crimes and it's important to learn lessons from them. I'm beginning to think your hatred has blinded you from learning anything.

It would seem some people can't look at this subject dispassionately.

The mere mention of the word Nazi seems to trigger something in some people.

What's the end game of the original post?

It wouldn't be hard to make some assumptions since the same poster started the thread on the nuclear bombings of Japan. Out of respect for the amount of information and research the OP put in hopefully no one takes it that way.

I just don't understand what is to be gained by starting either thread. War is horrible, as so eloquently stated by someone else, nothing about it makes sense. People do horrible things. I find it insulting for someone who has never been in war, not directed at OP as i know nothing of his/her history, to pass judgement.

What I know of WWII is the following.. Horrible, terrible things were done by all sides in involved. That's the reality of War and not the Hollywood version.

Dachau wasn't a death camp, before the war it was a showcase political re-education camp, the majority held there were political prisoners.

The deaths from starvation and disease that the Allies found there had effectively been caused by the Allies themselves, through effective blockade of Germany and destruction of supplies and infra-structure through strategic bombardment, the situation in Germany in the last period of the war is that same that had prevailed at the end of the first world war, were,

Official statistics attributed nearly 763,000 wartime deaths in Germany to starvation caused by the Allied blockade. This figure excluded the further 150,000 German victims of the 1918 influenza pandemic, which inevitably caused disproportionate suffering among those already weakened by malnutrition and related diseases.

There was no deliberate policy to starve inmates of concentration camps, no such orders existed or were intercepted, but they were the lowest priority and supplies weren't covering or reaching them.

The death of a million Germans toward the end of the first world war was just as regretable and unplanned as what occured at the end of the second, the difference being though the manner in which Allied propoganda exploited the tragic situation.

reply to post by opethPA


I have an interest in WW2, and i post these threads in the hopes that others will read them and enjoy them.

I do not care for negative assumptions people make about me due to my threads. As long as one person reads them and enjoys them, then i am happy.

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
Dachau wasn't a death camp, before the war it was a showcase political re-education camp, the majority held there were political prisoners.

Yes, you are correct. I did mention Dachau being a political camp. It is just that i forgot to go back and edit my terms of death camps to concentration/political camps

The deaths from starvation and disease that the Allies found there had effectively been caused by the Allies themselves, through effective blockade of Germany and destruction of supplies and infra-structure through strategic bombardment, the situation in Germany in the last period of the war is that same that had prevailed at the end of the first world war, were,

Official statistics attributed nearly 763,000 wartime deaths in Germany to starvation caused by the Allied blockade. This figure excluded the further 150,000 German victims of the 1918 influenza pandemic, which inevitably caused disproportionate suffering among those already weakened by malnutrition and related diseases.

There was no deliberate policy to starve inmates of concentration camps, no such orders existed or were intercepted, but they were the lowest priority and supplies weren't covering or reaching them.

The death of a million Germans toward the end of the first world war was just as regretable and unplanned as what occured at the end of the second, the difference being though the manner in which Allied propoganda exploited the tragic situation.

Indeed...

Thanks for the reply

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
Dachau wasn't a death camp, before the war it was a showcase political re-education camp, the majority held there were political prisoners.

Dachau was a death camp. my father took me there when i was 13. i saw what they did and we spoke with a priest who'd been in block 29, who was there recounting stories of the things he'd seen. make no mistake, Dachau WAS a death camp.

Many deaths did occur there. Many bodies were cremated there. But there is no solid proof to suggest that mass murders occurred there...

I have to differ, not only are there monuments there that are on top of the mass graves found, but the "douche" gas chambers and the multiple ovens are also testament to the mass murders... not to mention i heard it with my own ears from someone that was imprisoned there. history might not have it recorded properly, but believe me mass murders happened there. beyond a shadow of a doubt.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


Thanks for that

And contrary to what you think I don't hate americans not at all. But you have just confirmed what I said earlier, the US gave financial aid to Europe, yes they kept troops on the ground long enough for the countries to be capable of defending themselves against communism this being another major reason for the US to invest in a safer more productive Europe.

When it comes to nations agenda's will always be at play, Europe was and is the US's ally and I'm sure europeans are very grateful for all the aid given to them after WW2 (including UK)

It even states in your quote that the money was used to buy tools, resources and food from the USA, that money was loaned at interest too. Win/win situation for the US plus it helped defeat communism and create/maintain nations for future trade


Edit

I can imagine with the loans came requirements of US intervention of the economies that lent the money, to ensure the future markets will be secure and flow in the right direction

Originally posted by ladyteeny

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
Dachau wasn't a death camp, before the war it was a showcase political re-education camp, the majority held there were political prisoners.

Dachau was a death camp. my father took me there when i was 13. i saw what they did and we spoke with a priest who'd been in block 29, who was there recounting stories of the things he'd seen. make no mistake, Dachau WAS a death camp.

As stated by myself and others, the Dachau concentration camp was originally intended to be a political education camp which housed those who were considered enemies of the Reich.

Many deaths did occur there. Many bodies were cremated there. But there is no solid proof to suggest that mass murders occurred there...

OK, so this IS an apologist thread and an attempt at rewriting history. That doesn't play here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thread closed pending a review on its status.

The staff has discussed this and decided that the thread is viable.

Reopened.