Fiscal Cliff put in a much better perspective

reply to post by xedocodex


The fiscal cliff wouldn't even be a thought today if we weren't spending recklessly. If the US Govt. wasn't 14+ trillion in the whole I'm sure all would be well. So they do go hand in hand, because the national debt is the reason why they're discussing the fiscal cliff today...

reply to post by xedocodex


I'm just curious..but what part of spending ourselves into an orgy of debt that ends with the Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe combined for economic result is the OP not faithfully portraying? The op did leave out the 85 BILLION DOLLARS that are now being printed in funny money and issued to buy debt and monetize the nation's problems EVERY MONTH. We've been running 1+ TRILLION annual deficits since Obama took power....and this added almost ANOTHER Trillion to it.

At this rate? We'll have more in deficit than literal FUNDED budget by the end of this year. If I were setting out to deliberately crash the U.S. economy, I couldn't come up with a faster and more sure way to accomplish it while retaining the pathetic appearance of deniability for doing it.

It's not opinion. It's Math. If anything the Op isn't showing things badly ENOUGH to convey the truth of what is about to happen. I ought to see if staff will let me port over an editorial the owner of the site I work at wrote. He IS one of those "evil millionaires" and had quite a few things to say about this nightmare about to land on us.

Oh.... ..and it's only a scam with nothing to worry about to those with nothing to lose. MOST OF US have homes, families and lives with one hell of a lot left to lose here so this matters beyond words to most, even if they don't know the extent of why it should for another few days.

reply to post by jough626

Not to be "that guy", but it's a lot more complex than that.

Not really if you spend more then you take in and just keep raising your credit limit so you can continue to increase your spending despite taking in less and less you will eventually hit the wall. It really is that simple. It doesn't matter what they spend it on and who wants what the simple fact remains it is unsustainable. The only reason it has not hit the skids yet is because they are the creators of the funny money so they just raise their credit limit by creating more money however that debases the currency and causes inflation which is why prices are 93% higher then they were 40+ years ago and why it will all crash eventually...

And if people think this chain email is specific to the "fiscal cliff"...well, I guess you need to tell the people who were using this to explain the credit downgrade back in 2011.

www.jeffersonreview.com...

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by xedocodex

 

The fiscal cliff wouldn't even be a thought today if we weren't spending recklessly. If the US Govt. wasn't 14+ trillion in the whole I'm sure all would be well. So they do go hand in hand, because the national debt is the reason why they're discussing the fiscal cliff today...

Yes, if we had our budget in order and didn't blow it all on the Iraq war, we wouldn't be talking about the "Fiscal Cliff".

That doesn't change the fact that this chain email doesn't explain the "Fiscal Cliff" at all. It didn't explain the credit downgrade either.

All it does it compares apples to oranges by comparing a micro budget to a macro budget.

FACT: Your little picture has nothing to do with the "Fiscal Cliff". The Fiscal Cliff is all about automatic spending cuts (which would help the budget, but this is the "negative" of the "Fiscal Cliff") and taxes being raised (which would also help the budget, and which is also being fought against).

So if you are in fact super concerened about the national debt and our annual budget, you should be cheering for us to go off the "Fiscal Cliff".


It's hilarious that you post a picture to try to "simplify" the "Fiscal Cliff", and you and others apparently don't know what it actually is.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


And none of that has a damn thing to do with the "Fiscal Cliff".


But yes, let's do something about our spending...how about cutting military spending by at least half? Oh, I bet you won't go for that...guess you aren't that concerned about the debt after all.

reply to post by xedocodex


You seem to be getting a little caught up on the words fiscal cliff (which is a made up term anyways)... Would you like me to change the title so it stops irking you so bad? Should I title the thread, "Picture describing our debt issues" would that make you happy?

Beacuse i dont want to go back and forth with you all night over this crap

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by xedocodex

 

You seem to be getting a little caught up on the words fiscal cliff (which is a made up term anyways)... Would you like me to change the title so it stops irking you so bad? Should I title the thread, "Picture describing our debt issues" would that make you happy?

Beacuse i dont want to go back and forth with you all night over this crap

edit on 29-12-2012 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)

Yeah, I'm getting caught up on "words"...because I rationally expect people to say what they mean and not just attach the latest buzzword onto an old chain email and say "TA-DA, Explained".

If I were you, I would edit the title because I prefer to be HONEST, but that is entirely up to you.

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

And none of that has a damn thing to do with the "Fiscal Cliff".


But yes, let's do something about our spending...how about cutting military spending by at least half? Oh, I bet you won't go for that...guess you aren't that concerned about the debt after all.

Then explain what the fiscal cliff is to you?

You don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about and just trying to argue for the sake of argument. It has everything to do with it. If they do not raise the debt ceiling the government will no be able to pay the interest on the debt and may cause the dominoes to start falling faster then they already are.

Fact is they have gone off the fiscal cliff a long time ago because they borrow money just to pay the interest on the debt because they do not bring in enough tax revenues. it's like borrowing money to pay your credit card bill instead of paying down your debt it puts you further in debt. Taxing the rich more is a drop in the ocean it won't pay the bills even for a month etc. etc...

We are off the cliff and heading for the bottom of the ravine now and all this current fiscal cliff talk is just political theater to appease the masses till we hit bottom...

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

And none of that has a damn thing to do with the "Fiscal Cliff".


But yes, let's do something about our spending...how about cutting military spending by at least half? Oh, I bet you won't go for that...guess you aren't that concerned about the debt after all.

I'd love to see you move beyond 1 and 2 line "zinger" replies and put substance to your challenges.

That last part was just ignorant. I won't tell you what your beliefs and opinions are if you'll stop telling me what mine are. I sure didn't say that and have said EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE so many times, I've lost count. I've even pushed a couple friendships here pretty hard by HIGHLIGHTING how nearly criminal the US military spending has become.....so information before accusation might give you better legs to stand on.

Now, if we are going to discuss and not just give you replies to shoot at....I'll be happy to get into the multiple. independent and separate factors coming together in the same calendar month to form the "fiscal cliff". This isn't one issue and they could only have solved a PART of it. Although in the balance, that PART would have helped a great deal on the impact for the rest of it.

This is going to be an E-Ticket ride start Tuesday. Buckle up and hang on because we're going this time.

*Oh... and as a side note, Military spending as some big solution is a week old Red Herring. You could cut 100% of Military Spending... *ALL OF IT* and you still wouldn't balance the current 2013 fiscal sheet. Not even very close, either.

reply to post by xedocodex


I changed it, so now we can drop this pointless back and forth of what the title is or is not...

but since the debt is already there, not only do they need to stop putting more manure in, they have to take on a second job (manure shoveling) to get the already existing manure out (raising taxes to have more revenue).

Either way it goes, we're all up the creek... filled with manure

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by xedocodex

 

I changed it, so now we can drop this pointless back and forth of what the title is or is not...

Why did you do that just for this guy? The title was fine and had more impact before I would encourage you to change it back and ignore the trolls...

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by xedocodex

 

I changed it, so now we can drop this pointless back and forth of what the title is or is not...

Why did you do that just for this guy? The title was fine and had more impact before I would encourage you to change it back and ignore the trolls...

Done and done...

reply to post by hawkiye


It doesn't have anything to do with the fiscal cliff. The title is completely inaccurate.

If you'd like to partake in a discussion about the fiscal cliff we can talk about the taxes that will be raised and the cuts that will take effect. If you want to talk about the national debt and the federal budget we can...we shouldn't call it a discussion on the fiscal cliff if it has nothing to do with it though.

reply to post by hawkiye

Then explain what the fiscal cliff is?

And here lies the problem, people are discussing things they don't understand.

It is simple, the "Fiscal Cliff" was created in 2010 when the temporary tax relief bill was passed that extended the Bush tax cuts for everyone.

One of the conditions of this bill was that all Bush tax cuts would expire on Jan 1, 2013 if no other legislation was passed. (they kicked the can down the road). They also patched the AMT and extended payroll tax cuts, again, temporarily.

Another bill was passed to address government spending, this bill created a bi-partisan committee (the "super committee") to come up with a plan to cut 1.2 trillion in spending. If they failed to do this (which they did) automatic sequestration (automatic budget cuts) would be applied evenly across the board in January 2013.

There are other things set to expire or go into effect in January 2013, which include an Obamacare tax on high income families, the expiration of the "doc fix" for medicare, expiration of the payroll tax cuts, expiration of AMT fix, and expiration of federal unemplyoment extension.

THIS is the Fiscal Cliff, a combination of spending cuts and tax increases that are abrubt and severe (hence the "cliff").

The picture the OP posted has NOTHING to do with the Fiscal Cliff.

If we are to have intelligent conversations about these topics, then we should all at least educate ourselves on the correct terminology and what is actually being discussed before speaking.

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Then explain what the fiscal cliff is?

And here lies the problem, people are discussing things they don't understand.

It is simple, the "Fiscal Cliff" was created in 2010 when the temporary tax relief bill was passed that extended the Bush tax cuts for everyone.

One of the conditions of this bill was that all Bush tax cuts would expire on Jan 1, 2013 if no other legislation was passed. (they kicked the can down the road). They also patched the AMT and extended payroll tax cuts, again, temporarily.

Another bill was passed to address government spending, this bill created a bi-partisan committee (the "super committee") to come up with a plan to cut 1.2 trillion in spending. If they failed to do this (which they did) automatic sequestration (automatic budget cuts) would be applied evenly across the board in January 2013.

There are other things set to expire or go into effect in January 2013, which include an Obamacare tax on high income families, the expiration of the "doc fix" for medicare, expiration of the payroll tax cuts, expiration of AMT fix, and expiration of federal unemplyoment extension.

THIS is the Fiscal Cliff, a combination of spending cuts and tax increases that are abrubt and severe (hence the "cliff").

The picture the OP posted has NOTHING to do with the Fiscal Cliff.

If we are to have intelligent conversations about these topics, then we should all at least educate ourselves on the correct terminology and what is actually being discussed before speaking.

edit on 29-12-2012 by xedocodex because: (no reason given)

You and the poster above you are fools even your own explanation ties it all to the fiscal cliff this is just one aspect. And why did they do this? BECAUSE THEY ARE SPENDING MORE THEN THEY TAKE IN! Kicking the can down the road was to avoid facing the consequences a little longer of everything we have been talking about on this thread. Saying it has nothing to do with the "fiscal cliff" is ridiculous it has everything to do with it and your idea of the fiscal cliff is a joke it is just one more thing they tried to avoid the fiscal cliff a little longer...

Get on topic or get off the thread. You can have your opinion no matter how wrong it is but if you do not like the title of this thread to bad!

reply to post by hawkiye

You know.. I had a long reply with sources and facts and everything ..maxed out the Character count..to explain what the post above ours chose to gloss over in what is hitting, as if it's just meaningless. I just closed the tab and dumped the whole damn reply. Why? Why bother. This is debating brick walls that parrot the same thing..over and over.. ad naseum. Always to one political lean. Always to one side of blame and ALWAYS to a barely concealed agenda. (How many times has military spending been blamed? The ignorance of the plain budget with black and white numbers ANYONE CAN SEE is epic.

In less than a week, debate won't be necessary and being right will be, I believe, the worst experience I've ever had. I'd like to think no one else who is predicting what will happen here will take a bit of satisfaction in being right. I'd give anything...that this were all hype.

Heck with the endless blathering though. Not on THIS topic...because it proves itself in just a few days time ... doesn't it? We're screwed....and too many like we see here, don't even believe the screw itself exists ...let alone Uncle Sam's hand on the screwdriver. Truly unbelievable. Time will tell though...about 48-72 hours to be precise. We get our hope and change alright....we get it upside the head.

reply to post by hawkiye


If that's the way you want to see it then I could argue we have a revenue problem, seeing as taxing everyone an additional 20% will seem to do more to effect the deficit than just cutting programs.

Ultimately, the picture in the OP is a rehashed argument over the federal budget dating back to the mid-90's. The fiscal cliff is just another point to bring it up, apparently.

If you wanted to put the fiscal cliff in a 'better perspective' then why not explain what all the tax increases will do? Or how tiny of a chunk it takes out of the overall debt? That other guy and I have tried to explain it to you like you're five, buy you continue to ignore us in favor of your own deluded opinion on what the discussion should be about.

Edit to add: I don't believe the debt is as serious a problem as some of you do and I strongly believe that austerity through budget cuts like those coming in the next few days are the absolute wrong direction we need to be going.

reply to post by links234

In fairness... I read this OP as trying to make a point to START the discussion. Not declare his receipt example the END of it and call himself 100% correct.

Of course, as so often is happening these days... Discussion isn't what comes. Attack..combat..and destruction of each other in debate is the result and only seeming point for many. Given how certain the 'attack and combat' result will be on any of DOZENS of topics here anymore? I'm sometimes surprised folks even take the time and effort on a whole ballpark of subjects anymore.