Raised in "Christian" home, but not really "Christian"?

Well... I grew up in a Christian home... I'm sure my parents really did love Christ and Father but didn't have the capacity to think outside the box. My mother passed away during a service because of breast cancer and she was honored as a pastor posthumously.

I'll say this, my parents were strict, but never forced my brother and I to read the bible and stuff; I took it upon myself as a kid to read the bible. I had a nifty little pictured bible I asked my dad to buy for me when I was around 5-6.

I'd go to church and stuff; Sometimes I'd pay attention, other times I just wanted to hang out with my friends. But most of the time, I was respectful of the sermon but wouldn't pay attention to a lot of the garbage (pretty keen as a kid as well ) Some messages stuck to my head, like if the quantity of the sins is comparable to the number of pages in a phone book, you must confess and repent all those sins.

As much as my parents loved God, their minds were still confined in the box of religion. I don't remember much but I do remember my mother being very stern but loving at the same time.

reply to post by Jameliel

monotheistic religions are for better life not worsening it. if we feel that our lives are getting worse by the name of religion we should know that something is wrong !!! as a matter of fact life of a man who really believes in monotheistic religions should be better than an atheist. if not, there is something wrong. how can a person believe in the almighty God and the last day honestly, and his life be worse than an atheist !!!!!!!!!!!!!?
those who believe in ideologies like monotheistic religions, is just for better and true life, so there should be no paradox !!!!
speaking to people who believe in certain ideologies is simple than speaking to an atheist. however all of us are humans.
so kiss their hands and show them the true Christianity. if they are after truth they will get it, if not you have gotten it already !!!
monotheistic religions are not race nor nationality not inheritance but another eye to this world !

reply to post by Jameliel


You make an excellent op on the same things I have seen in the Christian Community and on posts on this site.

Some people are caught up in duality eating the apple again and again and cannot be one/harmonious with their enviroment. There are whose who believe in Jesus and then there are those who would be one with Jesus/god (or any other blessed soul). Conditioning from religion has meant that some people will never know god but they will have faith in religion and god.

God talks/reveals in it's own way when there is need and when a person listen to it not other peoples ideas/views of it.

Originally posted by Jameliel
For a few years when we were very young, but most of them we had one. We had no tv from age 4. No phone til I was 15. We couldnt wear shorts and the females had to wear skirts, no makeup, no cutting their hair. To top that off, we lived in a house where a man had committed suicide before. If you believe in the paranormal....that house was nasty....

reply to post by DoYouEvenLift

 

If you don't mind, you sound Presbyterian. Apostolic?

Do you feel, looking back on it, that it was something wholly unique to your family, or was this something that male heads of household within the church were doing to their families as well?

That was something else...my dad always said "the Lord told me not to join any church". We didnt go to just one church. We went to many and at random everywhere. I do think many in those churches were similar to my dad.

Originally posted by Jameliel
That was something else...my dad always said "the Lord told me not to join any church". We didnt go to just one church. We went to many and at random everywhere. I do think many in those churches were similar to my dad.

I gotta say, Im not trying to be weird here, but based on the things in your post I have to ask you a question. This sounds similar to my experiences growing up, but not with church. It is hard to fully describe over an impersonal medium like a chat forum, but you sound like someone who could relate to my childhood experiences because I think our father's were in the same... company together.. you know what I'm saying? Perhaps maybe your father was a farmhand?

.. but the only way to truly know is to ask what your dad did for a living.

Ill PM you

reply to post by DoYouEvenLift

Seems to me, after a lifetime of seeing various religious people in action, that there is an inverse relationship from overtly religious parctice and piety. I know I'm in danger of generalizing here. Bet that as it may I have a cousin who is the first type. He can't talk to you without an attempt at conversion and literally does not understand how someone could not accept "Christ as his personal Lord and Savior." His house if filled with religious artifacts and art. Religion is his life. He never made full colonel in the Air Force because he constantly proselytized to his co pilots and crew. They didn't like it. It affected his "leadership qualities" for promotion. His mother was religious, his father, my Uncle, a preacher and master manipulator. Christianity is his entire life and always has been.

And I have a friend who is Catholic, born and bred, also a Marine Biologist and teacher by training. He believes in Evolution. He does not believe the Earth is 6000 years old. I have never heard a harsh word out of his mouth. I have never heard him do "God talk" except Grace at meals. He accepts my own flawed self with no overt judgment at all. He lives what I call a "Christian life," yet you would never know he was Catholic.

When I look at how my cousin lives his Christian beliefs I am appalled to the point of wanting to be as far distant from Christianity as is possible. The guy isa moron and could turn me into an atheist.

When I look at how my friend lives his Christian beliefs I am amazed at how kind, soft-spoken, intelligent, and faithful he is. It makes me want to be around more Christians like him. he could turn me into a believer.

Well-stated. Ive observed similar situations both in my own family and out of it.

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by Jameliel

 

monotheistic religions are for better life not worsening it. if we feel that our lives are getting worse by the name of religion we should know that something is wrong !!! as a matter of fact life of a man who really believes in monotheistic religions should be better than an atheist. if not, there is something wrong. how can a person believe in the almighty God and the last day honestly, and his life be worse than an atheist !!!!!!!!!!!!!?
those who believe in ideologies like monotheistic religions, is just for better and true life, so there should be no paradox !!!!

I definitely agree!!!

As for your question: How can a person believe in the almighty God and the last day honestly, and his life be worse than an athiest?

"I know all the things you do, that you are neither hot nor cold. I wish that you were one or the other! -Revelation 3:15

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder. -James 2:19

So you can see here that there are others who understand that believing in God's existence does not automate a holy life.

I understand that some people would like to reject God and the bible based on the actions of others, and that's sad. IF you.... werent' so unholy then I'd be holy, if you.. if you.. if you.... No one is required to be a monkey see monkey do type person but somehow some people manage to justify that in their minds.
I was just thinking the other day about how adolescents compare their behavior to others who are older than they are, thinking, "No matter how bad I am right now, you're worse!" as though that justifies the unsavory lifestyle that both are in, it's like they want their behavior to catch up to the older persons to match theirs "to be fair". It's like people are okay with putting themselves at the lowest bar, for the lowest expectations, with the weakest link, "just to be fair", well the bible says that love is at risk of waxing colder, the older ones have had more waxing time.

The society that I live in uses immoral behavior as a rite of passage into adulthood, able to smoke, drink, watch r-rated movies...when some celebrity says, "I sold my soul to the devil", few people bat an eye, they don't really care. But when a person "converts" to Christianity, suddenly their actions are worthy of scrutiny.....suddenly they've got someone to gloat over, yay for them. I say, scrutinize everything, focusing only on fixing one group does not get to the root of the problem. Jesus likened some people to "straining a gnat only to swallow a camel".

I feel a bit badly for those willing to reject good for the sake of identifiying with their partner who ate the forbidden fruit. So to speak.

Did you know Christianity was founded around 30 AD? Did you also know Many religions existed before Christianity and jesus?
there is no right religion
there is no wrong religion( atheists )
live a good life. treat people as you would want to be treated.
Do not listen to fear mongering people who say they have visited heaven through NDE's, as most of them make serious $$$ off your fear.
we shall all someday visit the inevitable but until then enjoy the life we were given for nobody knows what the future beholds.



plus even if we did know what was out there im sure it wouldn't even make any sense to our mortal minds

Originally posted by MaMaa

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by MaMaa

 

but somehow the rules of being submissive/slave like only applied to women

Unfortunately the church you grew up in missed Ephesians 5:25. Yes, the wife is supposed to submit to the headship of the husband (most of the time), but the husband isn't a dictator who commands everything and everyone bows down to. Rather the husband is supposed to "love his wife like Christ loved the church". The husband is supposed to serve his wife and love her unconditionally.

We moved around a lot, it was a constant theme among any church we went to. Now I understand and was even taught that the husband is and I quote " supposed" to serve his wife and love her unconditionally. However my point was that there is no one to enforce such a behavior in men. Where as the men were there to enforce the behavior in women. Works out well for men, not so well for women.

That's not exactly true. If a married man is not happy with his wife than he is not happy with his life.

If the husband chooses to serve the wife than the wife likely will not have a problem submitting to his decisions. But if the man does not serve the wife but expects submission he will not receive what he does not deserve. This will cause strife between the two and tension in the marriage. If either the husband or wife fails to do their role the marriage suffers. No one really wins because no one is happy.

If one chooses to believe, the bible does say that a spouse never knows when by their actions they may save their spouse. I would say it's possible to take on Christ like attributes that are noticeable to your spouse. If I serve my wife the way Christ serves the church than eventually my love will win her over and she will want to submit, because it is my love that she submits too.

I learned a very hard way (trying not to go into great detail about personal issues here) that just because a person claims to be a christian or even upholds the image in public, does not mean they know God. That being said, we are all humans and it's unrealistic to hold every human up to the standard of Jesus himself, he was after all considered perfect. I used to expect more from Christians, but they are capable of sinning just as much as the man that doesn't believe in God at all. After a lot of suffering, pain, and hardships created by the Christians I met in recent years, I have gone away from this religion, but I know as a truth that they do not represent the God and Jesus I feel is real. They have this idea in their minds that we are to look and act a certain way, but as the bible itself says, 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." As a woman that was accused of witchcraft, and persecuted in my small town..I choose to kill them with kindness and forgive as Jesus himself would do. It wasn't easy to do this, especially when my very small children had to see my tears and endure pain because of judgmental humans, it's a true lesson for them to see forgiveness and strength come from their mother. We are human, we make mistakes, but love endures in the end. When our enemies strike us down, goodness and light will lift us up.

reply to post by Jameliel


Your experience isn't unique, for a very simple reason. Christians are supposed to be Christ-like, but we fail miserably most of the time. Some fail more than others. Someone can be a Christian, and yet still screw up. Christians can yell, curse, fight, and commit all sorts of sins. What makes a person a Christian isn't their behavior, but their acceptance of Christ as Savior. Badly behaving Christians provide a bad witness, while those that behave better provide a better one. Yes, a Christian should try and not do all those things, but none of us is perfect. We are simply forgiven.

My home wasn't the calmest growing up, even though both parents were saved. They fought, there were various issues, but they did believe. My grandfather was a deacon, and a WONDERFUL witness, so I can understand, in more than one way. It can be very confusing to see people professing to be Christian, and not acting as they ought to act. The important thing to remember is that it is not what we do that saves us.

Ephesians 2:8-9 states - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Originally posted by MaMaa
We moved around a lot, it was a constant theme among any church we went to. Now I understand and was even taught that the husband is and I quote " supposed" to serve his wife and love her unconditionally. However my point was that there is no one to enforce such a behavior in men. Where as the men were there to enforce the behavior in women. Works out well for men, not so well for women.

We are accountable to God to have such behavior. We need to have a desire to love our wife the way Christ loves the church.
That means we are willing to sacrifice our life for them. Unconditional love. Their care and joy is our primary concern.
In turn, a wife shouldn't have issue submitting to such a husband because she knows he cares about her more than he cares about himself.
This is a picture of our relationship with Christ. He asks us to submit to his authority, but we can trust that if we do this that He has our best interest at heart and will take care of us.


Any man can change to love his wife in such a way - But such a change only comes by having an active abiding relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. From that place of submission to the will of the Spirit we see the fruit of a changed character to become more Christ like.
There is much beauty that results from a relationship where both people are in active relationship with Christ and submit to each other in selfless love the way it was suppose to be.

Many self-professed christians, unfortunately, don't have this relationship with Christ, and as a result reoccuring sin issues in their life go unresolved, not dealt with.

It is very troubling to see so many turned from all what God wants to give us through relationship with Christ because some people were bad witnesses to the faith. I think exposure to true christians, realizing what it can do for you and your family, would offset the damage done by those who may never have actually known Christ.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by Jameliel

 

Christians can yell, curse, fight, and commit all sorts of sins. What makes a person a Christian isn't their behavior, but their acceptance of Christ as Savior. Badly behaving Christians provide a bad witness, while those that behave better provide a better one. Yes, a Christian should try and not do all those things, but none of us is perfect. We are simply forgiven.

It can be very confusing to see people professing to be Christian, and not acting as they ought to act. The important thing to remember is that it is not what we do that saves us.

Ephesians 2:8-9 states - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You're leaving out the tenth verse in the second chapter of Ephesians, guess what, If Ephesians 2:9 matters then Ephesians 2:10 matters too.
10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Also can you please back up your statements with anything that Jesus himself said? If so, please do, that'd be interesting to see. Thanks

Originally posted by JustgibberisH

plus even if we did know what was out there im sure it wouldn't even make any sense to our mortal minds

A bit off topic.

I might not be able to understand the specifics of what is until you experiance it all with senses I do not have in a human body and with better biological hardware (the human brain and body is limited tool), but what is so hard to understand about everything being connected to each other and that the soul is trying to experiance greater versions of that oneness with everything.

I would love the possibillity to totally examine all information that reach the unconcious mind. There is information there that the concious mind do not know about. That would also give you an increadable control on how to react to the input of senses and be able to see what the source is.

Go for the highest understanding you can achieve at each level of being and seek understanding and question both your understanding and other peoples understanding

Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by Jameliel

 

Christians can yell, curse, fight, and commit all sorts of sins. What makes a person a Christian isn't their behavior, but their acceptance of Christ as Savior. Badly behaving Christians provide a bad witness, while those that behave better provide a better one. Yes, a Christian should try and not do all those things, but none of us is perfect. We are simply forgiven.

It can be very confusing to see people professing to be Christian, and not acting as they ought to act. The important thing to remember is that it is not what we do that saves us.

Ephesians 2:8-9 states - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You're leaving out the tenth verse in the second chapter of Ephesians, guess what, If Ephesians 2:9 matters then Ephesians 2:10 matters too.
10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Also can you please back up your statements with anything that Jesus himself said? If so, please do, that'd be interesting to see. Thanks

edit on 10/01/11 by Wonders because: Jesus DID say they'd be false prophets, so how does one determine whose false and who isn't? Jesus' words are very much ignored in this pop cult Christianity. Faith WITHOUT works is DEAD, but I guess that concept is lost too considering FEW actually believe what Jesus said.

I didn't "leave out" anything; I simply didn't quote the entire Bible, and offered the verses that proved what I stated. I also didn't say that we were not supposed to do good things (in fact, I stated the opposite); I simply said that those works do not save us, which is factual.

The entire Bible is the Word of God. John 1:1-5 states:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
After some verses about John the Baptist, we see in verse 14:
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
If Jesus is the Word, which we are told, then every word in the Bible is of Him.
Of course, John 3:14-18 tells us (words spoken by Jesus):
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

False prophets are not hard to spot. All you have to do is line up what they say with Scripture. We are even offered a simple test. 2 John 7-11 states:
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
The simplest way is to determine who they say Jesus is. Those that do not accept Him as God, that He came in the flesh to die in our place, are false.

Faith without works is dead, we are told. dead in that it does nothing to advance His message, to bring glory to Him. 1 Cor 3:13-15 states:
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
This shows that we are saved through faith, and that works are related to reward (not destination).

You are right that many do not believe what He said.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


I've been trying to restrain myself from replying to this post... but I just can't help myself... what I just read was utterly painful....

The entire Bible is the Word of God

That is SOOO not true...

IF that was the case God wouldn't contradict himself in his own book

If Jesus is the Word, which we are told, then every word in the Bible is of Him

Completely false....

The words that came directly from him are the words of God... who is the Father of Jesus.... NOT Jesus himself... that is Christian theology... which is based on the book in its entirety not on his words exclusively

False prophets are not hard to spot. All you have to do is line up what they say with Scripture. We are even offered a simple test. 2 John 7-11 states:
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Interesting... did you know paul didn't preach the same lessons as Jesus did.... which by this quote makes him Anti-Christ... personally I wouldn't go as far as to call Paul Anti-Christ... but hey... if the shoe fits

The simplest way is to determine who they say Jesus is. Those that do not accept Him as God, that He came in the flesh to die in our place, are false.

Jesus did not claim to be God... He was made God in the flesh by his followers...

He did however claim to be the son of God... but never once did he say I am God... he knew better

Christian theology makes my head hurt sometimes... :shk:

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

The entire Bible is the Word of God.

This is an error widely made by many. You can pick out almost any passage and find those words are words of man. There are some passages that are when Father speaks, but those are few.

Take for instance this verse Ephesians 1:3

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

Father would not talk about himself in that way, these are the words of Paul.

If Jesus is the Word, which we are told, then every word in the Bible is of Him.

Brother is not Father, he never stated this. You are taking the words of another, and not from him directly. Above does not like second hand information. If Brother did not state something, then it is not to be said of him.