Do I want to go to Heaven?

Best to allow heaven to come to us, and at some point cross over a threshold into a domain of increasing freedom, new possibility and new life, and in that way, having discovered the hidden treasure, or the one best of the best things of them all, one may be said to have already gone to heaven where "no eye as seen nor ear heard nor the mind of man conceived what God holds in store for those who love him", so while it's still a domain of an uknown unknown, at some level, at the deepest level, it becomes a known unknown in a blissful state of acceptance AND anticipation of something that just keeps on getting better and better, looking back in hindsight.

Best to get the "cosmic joke" while we're still on our way, before it's too late.

Repent! The kingdom of heaven is at hand!

"I don't want it" someone said?

That's so absurd, it's hilarious!

I would not mind going to heaven and worshiping a God I believed in. However you have to understand that I consider myself an apathetic agnostic and, therefore, mostly believe that god is pretty much neutral. Therefore I would not want to be forced into worshiping a god that I did not feel was worthy of worship. That to me would be hell, or in the least a type of slavery.

reply to post by St Udio

lol....could'nt agree with you more, but when I read that, I picture some guy sitting in a room with a bunch of tv screens all over the wall and he is watching whatever. And that the singing is maybe the different sounds coming from some of these moniters the guy is listening to, because logically only machines could function on that kind of time scale with out rest, the ancients would probably view our technology as living creatures if ever exsposed to it..

reply to post by pheonix358


First off, I have to point out that the basis of your debate win was flawed. Your team stated that Jesus wasn't supposed to be discussed, as the topic was whether or not God was good. That's a mistake. The topic was not "God the father", just God. In a Catholic school, did they not teach the trinity? God the father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. One God in Three Persons. Thus, the opposing discussion of the acts of Jesus was completely valid.

Now, on the topic of Heaven; I think you have a view that isn't taking everything into account.

Let's start with that knowledge bit. Adam and Eve didn't eat from a "tree of knowledge"; they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Specific knowledge. Reading in Genesis, it's pretty obvious that they would have learned things in the garden. Adam named all the animals, and they were supposed to care for them and the garden itself. They would have been observing these wonderful new creations, in amazing variety, and learning about them daily.

Next, we will address the issue of lust. In this world, we live in a sin nature. We are spiritually born again when we accept Jesus as Savior, but we still have that sin nature as part of us, until we pass on, or till He returns. Once we are in Heaven, we will be totally rid of that sin nature, and we would thus not desire to do things that are wrong.

What would we do? Lots of things! Explore the universe, maybe. Make friends with the animals (no reason to think there would be none). Learn new skills. Make friends. Compete in a fashion that isn't hurtful to anyone.

Freed from that sin nature, we would not want to sin any longer (and won't that be a grand thing!?), but that doesn't mean God will be telling us every single thing we are to do throughout eternity. He gave us free will, and I see no indication that He would take it away.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


What is lust really, and it seems to me you find sex to be some kind of sin and if done away with we would have a real life starship enterprize......I find greed, self love and ignorance to be the worst and yes sleeping around to be irresponsible but not the down fall of creation.

Originally posted by GREENFOX74
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

What is lust really, and it seems to me you find sex to be some kind of sin and if done away with we would have a real life starship enterprize......I find greed, self love and ignorance to be the worst and yes sleeping around to be irresponsible but not the down fall of creation.

When did I ever say sex was a sin? Sex outside marriage is sinful, but within a marriage, it's a wonderful thing, and not wrong at all. I didn't discuss other sins, because the OP didn't mention those. Of course there are other sins. Greed? Yes. Self-love? Well, if you mean selfishness, or conceit, then yes. Ignorance? No, someone isn't sinning because there are things they don't know.

The downfall of creation was the disobedience of Man. The salvation is in His love for us.

reply to post by pheonix358


Everyone experiences hell in this life, you've already had a taste of it, you've been shown how bad it can be, not how bad it is.

Do you want to go to heaven?

Sadly, you wont have that choice, your life, your whole life, the way you have lived will determine for you whether hell or heaven is the right place for you.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


My bad it was just obvious to me that sex was a sensitive issue for you, and I dont dissagree about being in love with some one when it happens, and I say self love or selfishness because it can come in many forms like drugs or gambling and opressing others for their own happiness well you get my drift.

reply to post by pheonix358


If you travel at the speed of light away from Earth and 10 years pass before you arrive back, 1000 years have passed by on Earth. This is because space and time are not separate, but the same. It's time/space as Einstein would tell you. Reverse this. You are sitting in a chair in heaven and 10 minutes pass. In that 10 minutes, a story of 10,000 years is told to your mind in the form of a story.

Your question is in regards to Heaven and the nature of God's choice in the image and story He tells you. Pride and arrogance speak from ignorance. Truth, however, speaks from knowledge. What are we experiencing in this image of reality? Why do I say it's an image?

Genesis 1

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

God in this case is Elohim (Plural for Godhead). Our reality (Creation) is an image of time, space, Matter and Energy in the form of a story. The Story is told by the Logos using information. How do I know?

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

LOGOS is WORD. Word is information.

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning (TIME) God created the heavens (SPACE) and the earth (MATTER). 2 Now the earth (MATTER) was formless and empty (SUPERPOSITION / WAVE), darkness (Not Yet Rendered) was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit (Consciousness) of God was hovering over the waters (HYDROGEN). 3 And God said, “Let there be light (ENERGY),” and there was light (HYDROGENESIS).

Hydrogen is one proton and one electron. There is no Neutron. They are in a balanced state of positive and negative. This is the starting point of the waters when the universe was first engaged. It was in a state of high order and low entropy. As it cooled, hydrogen bonds began to form the elements.

For example, Carbon (Mark of Mankind) has 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. That's 666.

Revelation 13

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e-or of mankind] That number is 666.

Why is the beast 666? The Beast is you and me. We are the animal in the temple (Body) being sacrificed. This is something being done for you and not to you.

Here is the Gospel message in five Latin / Greek words.

Amni - Stream of Water or River

Amnio - Greek "Bowl" or "Lamb"

"Denotes a thin, transparent, tough membrane lining and the fluid-filled cavity contains the embryo of reptiles, birds, and mammals [amniotes]; the membrane around a fetus; diminutive of amnos, lamb; a bowl in which the blood of sacrificial victims was caught. Now used primarily to indicate the membrane surrounding the fetus in utero. "

Amnion - The amnion is a membrane building the amniotic sac that surrounds and protects an embryo.

Amniotic Fluid - Amniotic fluid or liquor amnii is the nourishing and protecting liquid contained by the amniotic sac of a pregnant woman.

Amnia - bag of waters; the extraembryonic membrane of birds, reptiles, and mammals, which lines the chorion.

Sia - Greek > Latin: a suffix; actor, process, condition, or state of; result of; expresses a state or abnormal condition or process of some disease

Amne(sia) - From modified Latin amnesia, from Ancient Greek ἀμνησία (amnēsia, “forgetfulness”).

AMNE´STIA (ἀμνηστεία）Amnesty is a word used by the later Greek writers, and from them borrowed by the Romans, to describe the act or arrangement by which offences were forgotten, or regarded as if they had not been committed, so that the offender could not be called to account for them.

The sheep has the wool pulled over their eyes. The wool is sheered and then washed white as snow. It is returned as a new robe (Body). The wool is your sin. Amnesty is forgiveness of sin in a foreign land. Love is the moral of the story.

Do you see any possibility that you have missed something along the way by only looking through your own eyes? How can God create sentience in an artificial environment? Will the good and evil need to be seen clearly? Yes. As you examine the words above, realize that God takes life and then promptly gives it back again in the form of Baptism (Involution and evolution) so that you can rise again to new life. "You must be born again." You are involved for one reason only--TO REPENT. All those dead bodies that Noah witnessed are reborn again in a new world.

Did God say that mockers would come along in the last days? Yes. He said the mark of the beast was selfishness in the Carbon (Fruit of knowledge). How do I know?

2 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

18 identifiers of selfishness. 6+6+6

Remember, it's an image. You are in the image. What does this tell you about heaven and where you really are now? When you look in a mirror, you see yourself. You are aware that the image is not you. The same holds true for you here. You are the child pictured below.

Matthew 18

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

Are you a child of God?

My apologies, I am a bit late to the thread, but I would like to ask followtheevidence, can you please point me to passages in scripture where these references are made:

Scripture hints at what our life will be like. It speaks of New Moons and Sabbaths, lunar and solar cycles which means there will be planets, moons, and stars. Scripture speaks of rivers, pastures, animals, vegetation, trees, fruit, etc which will inhabit the New Earth - clearly hinting at diverse animal and vegetable kingdoms. It speaks about His people eating from gardens they themselves planted; inhabiting houses they themselves built. We will have privacy (this specifically, is mentioned), activity, growth, learning, etc. It's not some vague, disembodied, ethereal existence. It's a very clear, very lasting reality.

I am more than a few years out of Sunday school, but this is particularly interesting and I don't ever remember anyone discussing it with me (like lots of other interesting things in the Bible... like the whole book of Enoch ).

Thank you!

reply to post by pheonix358


Why not act like the cosmic fish that we are, and start swimming in this new age?

I'll take my heaven now please.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by pheonix358

 

First off, I have to point out that the basis of your debate win was flawed. Your team stated that Jesus wasn't supposed to be discussed, as the topic was whether or not God was good. That's a mistake. The topic was not "God the father", just God. In a Catholic school, did they not teach the trinity? God the father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. One God in Three Persons. Thus, the opposing discussion of the acts of Jesus was completely valid.

Now, on the topic of Heaven; I think you have a view that isn't taking everything into account.

Let's start with that knowledge bit. Adam and Eve didn't eat from a "tree of knowledge"; they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Specific knowledge. Reading in Genesis, it's pretty obvious that they would have learned things in the garden. Adam named all the animals, and they were supposed to care for them and the garden itself. They would have been observing these wonderful new creations, in amazing variety, and learning about them daily.

Next, we will address the issue of lust. In this world, we live in a sin nature. We are spiritually born again when we accept Jesus as Savior, but we still have that sin nature as part of us, until we pass on, or till He returns. Once we are in Heaven, we will be totally rid of that sin nature, and we would thus not desire to do things that are wrong.

What would we do? Lots of things! Explore the universe, maybe. Make friends with the animals (no reason to think there would be none). Learn new skills. Make friends. Compete in a fashion that isn't hurtful to anyone.

Freed from that sin nature, we would not want to sin any longer (and won't that be a grand thing!?), but that doesn't mean God will be telling us every single thing we are to do throughout eternity. He gave us free will, and I see no indication that He would take it away.

In debating, when you want to be good at it, you need to anticipate and prepare for your opponent's moves. Had they defined the topic as, 'the three aspects of God', the only major change to our debate was the third speaker, who after his summation, would of then talked about the concept that actions speak louder than words. So we have God the Father guilty of crimes against humanity and we have Jesus, with words of love and good will. But when Jesus get's angry the first response he has, is to pick up a whip and start flailing people in his Father's House.

Preparations are important!

God allows destruction in his name and is destructive by his nature. So why after helping His chosen so much does he now sit back and do nothing. It seems like a child that loses, so takes the bat and ball and goes home.

P

reply to post by pheonix358


I honestly believe that heaven exist and it is where ever you wanna make it, because we all live in the here and now, and there are plenty of people out there in the world living in real hell right now. and some people may not even know it. hell is a man made consept based on and built on our exsperiences here in this reality and imagination took over and created something much worse, and over thousands of years it became a collective construct of exsperiences of humanity through story telling, fear and control gave it it's power, the human mind is capable of solving alot of these problems we have along with our undersanding of death, God is a collective consept and idea to help some of us along to help solve our misunderstanding of nature and to comfort our fears, we just have to put the fear aside.

Originally posted by GREENFOX74
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

My bad it was just obvious to me that sex was a sensitive issue for you, and I dont dissagree about being in love with some one when it happens, and I say self love or selfishness because it can come in many forms like drugs or gambling and opressing others for their own happiness well you get my drift.

Not a problem. I have heard the attitude you were suspecting from people, and it gets old after awhile. It's like some want to focus on one sin, and one sin only, and ignore all the others that they are guilty of.

Very true about the "self love" business. Not a bad term, as many of those issues stem from that.

Originally posted by pheonix358
In debating, when you want to be good at it, you need to anticipate and prepare for your opponent's moves. Had they defined the topic as, 'the three aspects of God', the only major change to our debate was the third speaker, who after his summation, would of then talked about the concept that actions speak louder than words. So we have God the Father guilty of crimes against humanity and we have Jesus, with words of love and good will. But when Jesus get's angry the first response he has, is to pick up a whip and start flailing people in his Father's House.

*snip*

God allows destruction in his name and is destructive by his nature. So why after helping His chosen so much does he now sit back and do nothing. It seems like a child that loses, so takes the bat and ball and goes home.

P

Well, sure; it's clear the other team was not completely prepared. Hence, your win. Had they been more prepared, they would have stood up better against the arguments presented. All quite interesting arguments, and things that should be discussed, too, for the record.

As for whether God is good or not, well, we can certainly debate that! I have done so on many other occasions, and don't mind doing so again.

You talked about how God has done various things that you believe are bad, wrong in some way. Excellent place to start. Let me begin with questions:

Do you believe a parent is bad when they discipline a child?
Do you believe that the justice system is bad for assigning some punishment to a criminal?

These are important questions. I don't see a punishment by God as an act of evil, or a wrong thing, any more than I see either of the above as wrong. For a system to work, there must be rules, and people must follow those rules. People being what we are, if there is no punishment, we simply aren't going to obey the rules. The more severe the infraction, the more severe the punishment. If a child is punished for disobeying, we don't claim that it is the fault of the parent that the child was had to undergo the punishment. If a criminal goes to jail because they committed a crime, we don't blame the judge for that, or the others that helped enforce the sentence. In both cases, we know that the one causing the punishment is the one that did wrong in the first place.

God created everything. He set rules, so that we could have good lives, and for our protection, as any good parent would do. Since the forbidden fruit, we have been breaking those rules, to varying degrees. So, there have been times that God brought forth a punishment. The flood? The entire world had gone totally corrupt. All, save Noah, and his family, were totally lost. God knew the rest were beyond all redemption, that they would not even want it. So, He cleaned house. Yes, people died. They died because they were corrupt. Because they broke the rules. What about the children, you say? Good question. Children raised by completely corrupt people, with no good influence in their lives, will grow to be corrupt as well. Taking them before they became so was, if anything, a blessing. Better to die before committing whatever atrocities they would have, than to live, and be responsible for those things. Just look at how some factions now teach very young children that they should hate and kill their "enemies". I have seen videos of very small children talking about being suicide bombers. What chance would a child like that have, if the entire world save a handful, was corrupt?

Sodom and Gomorrah? Sinful places, totally given over to their sins. Do you remember that God said He would spare them if even ten righteous men were found among them? Even ten! There were not ten. There was Lot (and he was no saint!), and his family. Even though he was far from perfect, God spared him, and his daughters. His wife would have been spared, but she chose to disobey, and paid the price for that.

Jesus beating the money changers? They were desecrating the temple. Was he supposed to ignore such a thing, and thus condone the behavior? There, of all places, He should have been able to find people willing to follow His rules.

God allows us to do a great many things, because He gave us free will, as part of being created in His image. If he had not done so, we would be nothing more than programmed robots, and incapable of real love. Who would want that? So, yes, He allows us to do terrible things, even using His name as an excuse. That doesn't mean he sits back and does nothing, though. I could tell you SO many stories, from personal experience, and that of friends, of things that God has done in our lives. Miracles. Small, maybe, but there, and in many cases, undeniable. He tends to act these days when we want Him in our lives. Who would follow a God that pushed His way in uninvited? If the world rejects Him, is He wrong for respecting that?

Originally posted by Lone12
reply to post by pheonix358

 

you re vieuwing Heaven with this current Matrix mind.
Ofcourse heaven will be boring, like that -
but not because Heaven is ' boring ' - but this Matrix is [!]

'Heaven ' means ' another kind of consciousness '
...and this evil matrix HATES that

and will spell upon you everything to get you a poor idea about [ the real ] Heaven.

Thats your answer.

Nicely said. That explains that.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


Wow. You must have really been working out to do those back flips, there.

So your God is justified in flooding the earth, because 1/3 of his heavenly population rebelled against him, and he let them loose on humanity, so he killed humanity. Okay.

He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because they were having too many pagan parties, Okay.

But why did he make the Israelites do his killing for him? Why did he lead them into sin and make them break the "Thou Shall Not Kill," "Thou Shall Not Steal" and "Thou Shall Not Covet Your Neighbor's Wife" commandments?

Only mormons and Saddam Hussein goes to heaven.

Blessings to whoever starred my posts at the top of page 6. At least someone undertands, that the beginning of heaven involves the restoration of our sense of humor and authentic self expression and therefore represents a domain of liberation and true and lasting freedom for the individual human being, having come to know the truth that set's us free. It's a real relief, big time! Good on you for "getting it'", may eternal love and laughter be yours. Amen.

And to the rest of you - try to have a Happy New Year!


NAM