Do I want to go to Heaven?

Do I want to go to Heaven?

I went to high school in a Catholic College. I was there on a scholarship that I obtained while in 1st Year high. Since I was never all that good at sport and all students had to give back to the school, I was on the Chess Team and the Debating Team.

I loved Debating. The debating teams all met on a Friday Night in an inter school completion. All the schools were Private and Christian of one denomination or another. Once every term we had to endure ‘The Unwinnable Debate’. There were two reasons for this. One was to give every team at least one win and the other was to drive home the point that you could not win every Debate. Sensible of the organizers! Of course, never say die was a motto of mine and I was one of the Team Captains.

On this occasion our unwinnable topic was, “That God is good.” We were on the negative!

So on a windy Friday night our opposition starts off with their first Speaker who tells us all, how God is good and sent His only Son to save us. Then, as expected, they made two small tactical errors. The first is that they failed to define the topic. Second their first Speaker talked about Jesus, the miracles he did etc etc until the first Speakers time was up.

Our first Speaker defined the topic “That God is God’ to mean God, not The Son and not the Holy spook. We conceded that Jesus was a nice guy, but, the Debate was about His Dad and it would be nice if our learned opposition could please stick to the topic. Then our first speaker declared that we would prove our case by subjecting God to a War Crime Trial based on the International Conventions on warfare.

Their Second Speaker spoke for only half of his allotted time, possibly because he could not now, speak about what a nice guy Jesus was/is and he was not prepared to speak of God. He did well to speak as much as he did because he was making it up as he went.

Then I, as our Second speaker, spoke about God! I went through Biological attacks on Egypt, Plagues, locusts, poisoning water supplies, killing Infants and new born male children. I went through the crime of Genocide with the flood and noted the huge animal cruelty issues as well. Nuclear like attacks on Sodom and Gomorrah, everything got a mention. We went through the likely view as Noah looked out of the Ark to see bodies, including little babies, floating and bloating. I went a little into overtime. There was just so much information to go through.

The opposition’s third speaker stammered his way through as he tried to tell us all that God had the right to do these things since he was God. He stammered because he was angry and was having a hard time coming up with any serious rebuttal.

Then our third speaker took to the podium, summarized our case quite nicely and then made the point that the debate was not about God’s right to do as he pleases, but rather, Is God good. We won the unwinnable.

Of course come Monday morning I was called to the Principles Office and we had a little discussion. He was both amused and at the same time a little upset because on Sunday he had had a long telephone call from the Arch Bishop, the subject of which was about what was taught in RI lessons at school.

My question is this! For all the people that are going to Heaven, what will it be like?
I am used to Freedom. Heaven is a Dictatorship.
I am especially attached to the concept of Freedom of thought. If I look at an Angel and think, “I’d like to get Her in the sack” do my wings fall off? Heaven could make the book 1984 seem like a fairy tale. Since God knows all I would no longer have Freedom of thought nor Freedom of action.

Heaven has no booze, no computer games, perhaps some sport. What will I do with an eternity of time. One assumes that sex is out of the question going by either the Catholics or the Bible Thumpers. What do we all do, sit around on clouds singing revival songs? We were not supposed to eat from the tree on knowledge so expanding my mind seems out of the question.

What would Hell be like. I don’t think I would like Fire and Brimstone nor torture and sadism. Hell may be a nice place to visit friends, but I am sure I would not like to live there.

Perhaps there is a third alternative. The place where all the animal souls go. A place where you could spend time play fighting with Tigers. Petting bunnies and riding Horses. Studying spiders and marveling at all the dinosaurs. I wonder if such a place exists. There must be an alternative place for freedom loving people. I wonder what that place will be like.

Perhaps Heaven is not for me. How could God be so cruel to create a species that is so destructive.

P

reply to post by pheonix358


you re vieuwing Heaven with this current Matrix mind.
Ofcourse heaven will be boring, like that -
but not because Heaven is ' boring ' - but this Matrix is [!]

'Heaven ' means ' another kind of consciousness '
...and this evil matrix HATES that

and will spell upon you everything to get you a poor idea about [ the real ] Heaven.

Thats your answer.

Originally posted by Lone12
reply to post by pheonix358

 

you re vieuwing Heaven with this current Matrix mind.
Ofcourse heaven will be boring, like that -
but not because Heaven is ' boring ' - but this Matrix is [!]

'Heaven ' means ' another kind of consciousness '
...and this evil matrix HATES that

and will spell upon you everything to get you a poor idea about [ the real ] Heaven.

Thats your answer.

The Matrix is a movie. You need to grasp that concept.
The reptilian overlords is from a TV series called V. It is only make believe.

P

Well, seems to me that really the people who know how to/like to have a good time are the ones damned to hell by Bible belt types. Addicts, drunkards, loose women, prostitutes, Heavy Metal aficionados/musicians, gays, etc etc etc..

So maybe it seems like hell is the place you'd like to be. Granted, if that whole 'eternal damnation, lake of fire' thing turns out to be true I'll be eating my words.

My best guess, though? Hell doesn't exist. Nor does heaven, so theirs little sense in being bothered about it. Just live your life, try to enjoy it, and try not to hurt others.

reply to post by Monger


Hell is reserved for the worst of the worst and there is no question on who on this earth will be personally dragged to hell by Satan himself and those people know who they are. For everyone else heaven is in order if you did what your heart told you so that you left the Earth a little bit better than you found it.

The one who is your creator and knows you better than yourself will provide heaven.

Situations are different there.

It is not like giving a candy and locking the door.

Find everything you can by Kat Kerr...

There are MANY MP3's and videos online from her.

In heaven there is a place called “The Chamber of Understanding”

We will all have an opportunity to spend time one on one with the Father in this place. It is like a massive gemstone with the most glorious colors. When you walk up to it a door opens from the top down and when you walk in you experience smoke with an amazing aroma that comes all around you. Then smoke clears and the Father appears. God then asks what you would like to see. He will explain and show you how He created the heavens and the earth. You can ask Him to show you anything that you would like to know from the past or into the future.

For example, God has shown Kat how the original earth was created in Genesis 1:1. This is when “Time - Space” and physical matter were created.

Then in Genesis 1:2 the earth was without form and void because of lucifer's fall. Satan fell like lightning from heaven down to earth. God created the ice age after this to destroy what satan was doing on the earth. This earth is millions of years old. But it is only thousands of years since Adam.

Before “time and space” was made, many things could be in one place at one time.

God created the spirit realm first.

Eternity exists in the Father, not the other way around. God was before eternity.

In heaven, embedded in the floor behind the throne is God’s timeline. On this timeline one can see that the created beings (angels) were created before the planets and the earth. Then you can see the original earth, satans fall, the ice age and then the creation of the earth the second time, then when Adam and Eve were created.

God created the spirit realm before the earth was here. The spirit realm does not belong to the new age movement. They operate in the spirit realm simply because they believe its there.

The Chamber of Understanding /// MP3

Kat Kerr Interview About Angels:

GOD HAS REMOVED THE VEIL BETWEEN HEAVEN AND EARTH!

If you have always wondered about Life after Death, this is the book for you ! It will Amaze, Delight and give you Hope for Eternity. Don’t just read about Heaven; ‘see’ what it has to offer those who choose to go there by accepting Jesus as their Savior (John 3:16 & 17). You will be surprised when you learn what God has prepared for His people.

Kat Kerr was taken by the Spirit of God on tours of Heaven for over ten years and has now been commissioned to reveal what she was shown. Two scribe angels were assigned to assist her and they have also delivered the ‘Foreword’ for the book, which is a profound message from God! She not only visited Heaven, but was shown visions of many things that are about to take place on earth. We are entering into a ‘Holy’ season of Heaven being released on earth – it will change life as we know it!

www.robinbremer.net...

Revealing Heaven Audio Book Vol 2
www.youtube.com...

you guys are funny...

you've heard something about "energy", somebody invented the term "soul", somebody called brain functions "consciousness"...

and now all of you believe when your body dies and your brain dissolve into single atoms, this "energy" of yours goes somewhere.
this so called consciousness is not a package, it's not a piece of matter nor it is some self contained energy field.

ah well, tooth fairy is also reel for some humans... till the age of 5 or so

Originally posted by pheonix358
Do I want to go to Heaven?

No one enters the Kingdom against their will.

On this occasion our unwinnable topic was, “That God is good.” We were on the negative!

Then I, as our Second speaker, spoke about God! I went through Biological attacks on Egypt, Plagues, locusts, poisoning water supplies, killing Infants and new born male children. I went through the crime of Genocide with the flood and noted the huge animal cruelty issues as well. We went through the likely view as Noah looked out of the Ark to see bodies, including little babies, floating and bloating.

Just because you, me, the second speaker, everyone and their dog can't think of a good reason for God to do these these things - does not mean that a good reason does not exist. It would be akin to explaining to a newborn why a painful vaccine is actually a good thing. It is a very delicate and serious issue to be sure; but please remember you're theoretically attempting to outwit the Being who gave you the ability to reason; who created logic itself. Do you really think that if He does exist and that if He is good - that somehow He's missed something you haven't?

Then our third speaker took to the podium, summarized our case quite nicely and then made the point that the debate was not about God’s right to do as he pleases, but rather, Is God good.

What authority are you appealing to regarding morality? If God is not good, who/what determines what IS good? If God is not good, is there morality at all? If so, is it objective? Or subjective? IF there is objective morality - from what authority? If it morality is subjective - then someone could just as easily say that what God did WAS good given the changeable nature of morality. To even be able to claim that God is not good you must first appeal to an authority that can determine that which is good from that which is not good. Or it's all subjective. All of it.

My question is this! For all the people that are going to Heaven, what will it be like?
I am used to Freedom. Heaven is a Dictatorship.

This is why it is so important for someone to invite truth into their life - to actively seek it, to want the truth more than anything else. Once they find the truth, they are free to choose. If they want nothing to do with God and His Kingdom - they won't be forced to be part of the coming world. It's that simple. THIS is why it's so important for people to believe. If you join Him it's because you were FREE to do so; were free to align yourself with His thought. If you know who He is and reject Him; if you know His law and reject it - what is God to do? Bind you to Himself for all eternity without your consent? How would that be just? Merciful? Those who wish to be with Him will; those who don't, won't.

Heaven has no booze, no computer games, perhaps some sport. What will I do with an eternity of time.

You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of eternity. Eternity is marked by the absence of time - not endless time. Eternity is not experienced durationally. It is an experience so completely foreign to us that attempting to speak of it in words is beyond pointless.

One assumes that sex is out of the question going by either the Catholics or the Bible Thumpers. What do we all do, sit around on clouds singing revival songs? We were not supposed to eat from the tree on knowledge so expanding my mind seems out of the question.

We already ate from that tree. It's not like you have to go forage from the tree of knowledge everytime you learn something do you? We will however, eat from the tree of life.

Scripture hints at what our life will be like. It speaks of New Moons and Sabbaths, lunar and solar cycles which means there will be planets, moons, and stars. Scripture speaks of rivers, pastures, animals, vegetation, trees, fruit, etc which will inhabit the New Earth - clearly hinting at diverse animal and vegetable kingdoms. It speaks about His people eating from gardens they themselves planted; inhabiting houses they themselves built. We will have privacy (this specifically, is mentioned), activity, growth, learning, etc. It's not some vague, disembodied, ethereal existence. It's a very clear, very lasting reality.

Hell may be a nice place to visit friends, but I am sure I would not like to live there.

Hell is not a place; it is an event. Hell is not eternal in duration, only in consequence.

Perhaps there is a third alternative. The place where all the animal souls go.

Isaiah makes it clear animals will be joining us in heaven.

There seems to be a lot written that you have not tapped into. If these questions were genuine, if your search is a sincere one - I kindly suggest exploring Scripture further. If they were in jest, well I just hope I answered them in keeping with His word.

Regards,

FTE

Originally posted by KrzYma
you guys are funny...

"The one enthroned in heaven laughs. The Lord makes fun of them. Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath" Psalm 2:4

"But the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming" Psalm 37:13

reply to post by followtheevidence


I am sorry. I mean no disrespect to your beliefs but, you only quote what has been written by men, ordinary men, but men who use their version of what God has said for their own power to control and get rich.

This is true of every book of "God's Word" ever written. What annoys me the most is that God allows those who claim to speak in His name to keep speaking.

Why have not a few of the TV evangelists been fried by the odd bolt of divine lightening!

I do not see God's Word, I see slaughter in his name, I see empires built in His name, I see suffering, rape and torture of children by those who profess to serve Him. I see nothing, nothing at all, that is Goodness and Love.


P

reply to post by Murgatroid


cool, what's the name of the guy who wrote it ?
oh.. I forgot... somebody's God let it appear on paper few thousand year ago.

you know you go to hell, right? you warship the wrong "god" as all other religious believers are sure you will.

and try to speak your own words instead of quoting other humans thoughts

reply to post by KrzYma


If you reject God ... what choice is He left with beside your own?

Would you rather a Creator who binded Himself to you for eternity without your consent?

reply to post by followtheevidence


I'm not rejecting God as a concept, I'm just rejecting all religions !
I don't know what God is, but I know what it isn't

Originally posted by KrzYma
you guys are funny...

you've heard something about "energy", somebody invented the term "soul", somebody called brain functions "consciousness"...

and now all of you believe when your body dies and your brain dissolve into single atoms, this "energy" of yours goes somewhere.
this so called consciousness is not a package, it's not a piece of matter nor it is some self contained energy field.

ah well, tooth fairy is also reel for some humans... till the age of 5 or so

edit on 29-12-2012 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)

This post made me think.

It is an old fact in my notebook.

I want to be seemed all knowing. So I comment on anything to cover my weak points.

thank you.

reply to post by mideast


yeah, you are right, I'm out of this thread...

reminds me of something I've heard a long time ago

"you can not argue with an idiot, you have to come down to his level for that, but he will overtop you with experience..."

reply to post by marbles87


Any "Proof" for them there assertions? That is just an opinion yeah? Unless there is any incontrovertible PROOF of heaven, hell or any type of afterlife, i'll assume that what i see is what i get, ie I switch off & revert back to the state i was in before i was born.

reply to post by followtheevidence


If a God can't just do whatever he pleases whether or not i reject him, then he's not an omnipotent God is he? Let's say i want to accept Jesus as my personal saviour & the only thing stopping me is evidence, the brain i was (supposedly) given by this "God" wont let me accept anything without proof just because it'll make me feel good so i want proof & it's not forthcoming, "faith" just doesn't cut it. Why wouldn't this "God" fellow just show up & let himself be known (it's not as if he didn't do that all the time back in the day)? Sorry it just wont wash, not if you want people to believe he's omnipotent, he wouldn't have to follow any "rules" except the ones he set himself.

Simple answer is if you don't like this religion find another or create your own and that should solve your problem.

reply to post by pheonix358


I found many of the same problems with the Abrahamic god’s morality when I started looking at my beliefs from the opposing view. Then that led me to question whether believing in this god was even rational to begin with.

Naturally, those verses that were hammered into me as a youth crop up again and again:
“There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.”
Isn’t that laughably convenient? If you think for yourself, you’ll end up dead? I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but that sounds like brainwashing to me.