SYMBOLISM - Witchcraft, Mind Control, Masons, Illuminati

Originally posted by Ladyk74
Manly P. Hall, 33º Scottish Rite Freemason, raised November 22, 1954, passed to the celestial lodge 1990.

Yup, joined nearly 250 years after Masonry was officially organized. But in your strange world that makes him a 'founder'.

You planning on answering my question about the triangles or is basic math out of your realm of understanding?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Ladyk74
To the Mason, the interlacing triangles of the hexagram depict sexual intercourse. This symbolism is pure...

*yawn*

Still not seeing a hexagram on the crayon drawing you posted. Are you now trying to say it was symetrical?

Ancient Satanism, period, end of paragraph.

Satan? Really? Do you believe in the tooth fairy as well? I thought the lack of understanding of basic math was bad but why do we have to mix in superstition as well?

It is a simple thing to confuse a hexagon and a hexagram, however the esoteric meaning of the two is the same.

Hexagram:
www.merriam-webster.com...

Definition of HEXAGRAM
: a plane figure that has the shape of a 6-pointed star, that consists of two intersecting congruent equilateral triangles having the same point as center and their sides parallel, and that can be formed by constructing external equilateral triangles on the sides of a regular hexagon

hexagon
www.merriam-webster.com...

Definition of HEXAGON
: a polygon of six angles and six sides

Where does symmetry ever come into play here?

Stop clowning around or I will just go back and start bringing in quotes from our other row.

Oh and by the way the Library of Congress has Thomas Jefferson listed as a freemason and it is well known that documentation of membership was poorly kept in the early US. Or we can go into his high place of honor in European lodges. Or that the Scottish contingency of masonry was widespread among military members in America.

Would you like to start arguing against the all seeing eye and pyramid being masonic symbols at the time also?

We could always go and review David Ovason (respected Mason) and Secret Architecture of Our Nation's Capital to evidence the the square and compass in the layout of DC. Or its alignment with the constellation Virgo as a modern incarnation of Isis according to Ovason.

Or we can get into the prayer to the Greek god Zeus found on the seal among other things which evidence the strong influence of the mysteries on the development of the great seal.

I have no problem going another 20 pages with you over the definition and nature of Satan/Lucifer with you again as you still don't seem to understand the nature of the concept.

Nor do you accept the teachings of highly respected masons on the matter of the mysteries and their connection to masonry. Either from their Roman roots, Rosicrucian, or otherwise.



en.wikipedia.org...

The Grand Lodge of Ireland and The Grand Lodge of Scotland were formed in 1725 and 1736 respectively. Freemasonry was exported to the British Colonies in North America by the 1730s – with both the "Antients" and the "Moderns" (as well as the Grand Lodges of Ireland and Scotland) chartering offspring, or "daughter," Lodges, and organising various Provincial Grand Lodges.

The earliest known American lodges were in Pennsylvania. In December 1730, Benjamin Franklin’s Gazzette states that “there were several Lodges of Freemasons erected in this Province.” [10] After the American Revolution, independent U.S. Grand Lodges formed themselves within each state. Some thought was briefly given to organising an overarching "Grand Lodge of the United States," with George Washington (who was a member of a Virginian lodge) as the first Grand Mast

Or you could ask Madam Blavatsky about the hexagon as you are trying to argue that it is only the merriam webster definition of a hexagram which counts, but that is likely due to your lack of understanding on the matter.

The Secret Doctrine: The Synthesis of Science, Religion and Philosophy, Volume 3
You can read the first page here;
books.google.com... &ei=Bt3kUOCcCeHL2QW0sIGQBg&ved=0CEYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=hexagon%20occult&f=false

BTW I am still waiting for a list of sources for you so called esoteric knowledge which you failed to present in our previous discourse . . . or any evidence of Hall retracting his claims after becoming such an influential mason

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus



Psssst you forgot the rest:

"In 1934 Mr. Hall founded the Philosophical Research Society, dedicating it to the ensoulment of all arts, sciences, and crafts, and devoted to the one basic purpose of advancing the brotherhood of all that lives, to meet all lovers of wisdom on a common ground."

This is what the quote referred to.


The case presented here is pretty strong, I think everyone can decide for them self. LOL.


Let the people on ATS decide on their own about Freemasonry and their involvement with the Illuminati.

Oh and by the way the Library of Congress has Thomas Jefferson listed as a freemason and it is well known that documentation of membership was poorly kept in the early US. Or we can go into his high place of honor in European lodges. Or that the Scottish contingency of masonry was widespread among military members in America.

Oh yes, like I said, what I have witnessed in the military is some really crazy stuff.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
It is a simple thing to confuse a hexagon and a hexagram, however the esoteric meaning of the two is the same.

Not after it is explained to you a few hundred times.

Where does symmetry ever come into play here?

Uh, right here in the link you provided:

Definition of HEXAGRAM
: a plane figure that has the shape of a 6-pointed star, that consists of two intersecting congruent equilateral triangles...

Equilateral triangles are symetrical. But you knew that (hopefully).

Stop clowning around or I will just go back and start bringing in quotes from our other row.

Not my thread. Feel free to do whatever the hell you want.

Oh and by the way the Library of Congress has Thomas Jefferson listed as a freemason and it is well known that documentation of membership was poorly kept in the early US. Or we can go into his high place of honor in European lodges.

I wish he were. He is one of my favorite Presidents. It still does nothing about the Seal though as his designs were not used either.

Would you like to start arguing against the all seeing eye and pyramid being masonic symbols at the time also?

The Eye of Providence is, the pyramid does not appear in Masonic ritual.

We could always go and review David Ovason (respected Mason) and Secret Architecture of Our Nation's Capital to evidence the the square and compass in the layout of DC. Or its alignment with the constellation Virgo as a modern incarnation of Isis according to Ovason.

You mean the one he wrote prior to becoming a Mason? You are just as bad as Ladyk.

Oh, you should read the last five or six pages of the book, where he admits that the Masons did not put the symbols there.

Or we can get into the prayer to the Greek god Zeus found on the seal among other things which evidence the strong influence of the mysteries on the development of the great seal.

Post whatever you feel is relevant.

Originally posted by Ladyk74
Psssst you forgot the rest:

"In 1934 Mr. Hall founded the Philosophical Research Society, dedicating it to the ensoulment of all arts, sciences, and crafts, and devoted to the one basic purpose of advancing the brotherhood of all that lives, to meet all lovers of wisdom on a common ground."

This is what the quote referred to.

Uh, no, it did not. You claimed Hall was one of 'the founders of Freemasonry'. He started this group prior to joining the Masons and it has nothing to do with Masonry.

Nice try at backpedaling and goalpost shifting.

Originally posted by Ladyk74
Manly P Hall, one of the founders of Freemasonry made this such statement in his book entitled: The Lost Keys of Freemasonry:

Your words. You even bolded it. So...........?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


The pyramid was widely used among masonic circles during and before the time of its placement on the Great Seal.

This is evidenced in several Masonic museums I linked you to earlier and you claimed BS because I didn't give you a virtual tour.


Again the claims have never been retracted, when someone is wrong and they discover this they usually come out and say so.

In the last pages of the book he says the individuals themselves were however he does not go into details on the committees or culture of the government which approved it. That culture and government being highly influenced by freemasonry.

This is a well documented fact.

EDIT
LoL I still laugh when I remember you claiming the P2 lodge wasn't chartered when it committed its actions and then merely said you don't care because it was chartered in America when proven otherwise.

en.wikipedia.org...

Propaganda Due (Italian pronunciation: [propaˈɡanda ˈduːe]), or P2, was a Masonic lodge operating under the jurisdiction of the Grand Orient of Italy from 1945 to 1976 (when its charter was withdrawn), and a pseudo-Masonic, "black", or "covert" lodge operating illegally (in contravention of Article 18 of the Constitution of Italy banning secret associations) from 1976 to 1981. During the years that the lodge was headed by Licio Gelli, P2 was implicated in numerous Italian crimes and mysteries, including the collapse of the Vatican-affiliated Banco Ambrosiano, the murders of journalist Mino Pecorelli and banker Roberto Calvi, and corruption cases within the nationwide bribe scandal Tangentopoli. P2 came to light through the investigations into the collapse of Michele Sindona's financial empire.[1]

Masonry has a long history of being involved in revolutions and subversive action within the confines of government.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
It is a simple thing to confuse a hexagon and a hexagram, however the esoteric meaning of the two is the same.

Oh, hah, hah, hah.

Another genius who does not understand simple math.

A hexagon is a six-sided geometric shape. A hexagram is stellated hexagon and has TWELVE sides making it a dodecagon.

A member who was also stationed in Germany back in 2005 reminded me of the death of Juwan Johnson. Johnson was killed in a "gang related ritual" and the insiders all knew that the people involved were Masons.

Johnson had been looking forward to his “jumping in,” the initiation rite of the Chicago-based gang. He hadn’t mentioned it to his wife, of course. Pregnant with their first child, she was obsessively fixing up the house; in just two weeks, he was due for a discharge. All he told her was that he was thinking about joining the Masons.

LINK

He was groggy, thirsty, and in terrible pain. His bowels and kidneys felt like they were about to explode. Faint bruises, some the size of a soldier’s fist, others the size of a military-issue combat boot, were already forming on Sergeant Juwan Johnson’s skin. A trickle of blood oozed from the corner of his mouth.

There was much more other crazy stuff I personally witnessed within these circles.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
It is a simple thing to confuse a hexagon and a hexagram, however the esoteric meaning of the two is the same.

Oh, hah, hah, hah.

Another genius who does not understand simple math.

A hexagon is a six-sided geometric shape. A hexagram is stellated hexagon and has TWELVE sides making it a dodecagon.

Woops, you finally caught one. Congrats!

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
The pyramid was widely used among masonic circles during and before the time of its placement on the Great Seal.

Sorry, the pyramid does not appear in Masonic ritual. Please provide a link to the contray.

In the last pages of the book he says the individuals themselves were however he does not go into details on the committees or culture of the government which approved it. That culture and government being highly influenced by freemasonry.

So because he does not go into detail you make an assumption?

LoL I still laugh when I remember you claiming the P2 lodge wasn't chartered when it committed its actions and then merely said you don't care because it was chartered in America when proven otherwise.

I think you are confusing me with someone else as I do not recall discussing this with you. Additionally, your link shows Propaganda Due had its charter revoked prior to the crimes mentioned.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
The pyramid was widely used among masonic circles during and before the time of its placement on the Great Seal.

Sorry, the pyramid does not appear in Masonic ritual. Please provide a link to the contray.

In the last pages of the book he says the individuals themselves were however he does not go into details on the committees or culture of the government which approved it. That culture and government being highly influenced by freemasonry.

So because he does not go into detail you make an assumption?

So now it has to appear in masonic ritual?

Find another organization as influential as the masons in America at the time which had such prolific use of the pyramid in its art?

Never claimed it was part of the masonic ritual.

Originally posted by bknapple32

Originally posted by Ladyk74
Manly P Hall, one of the founders of Freemasonry made this such statement in his book entitled: The Lost Keys of Freemasonry:

Your words. You even bolded it. So...........?

Any answer to this ?? Or just going to ignore it or sideball it with a " i leave it to everyone to decide"

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
So now it has to appear in masonic ritual?

For it to be a symbol? Yes. Masonic symbols are thoroughly explained in the degrees and the pyramid (unfinished or otherwise) is not one of them.

Find another organization as influential as the masons in America at the time which had such prolific use of the pyramid in its art?

Masonic art is irrelevant. Mozart wrote the Magic Flute with overt Masonic influences, does this mean the Magic Flute is somehow relevant to Masonry as a body?

reply to post by iwilliam

There is no prophecy in symbols, when purposely created as symbols by people. Then there are symbols realized afterwards, some of which turn out to be prophetic and some are lies and perverted, which are not purposely created by people.

reply to post by anon29


Im confused..what is wrong with sex? Without it there would be no kids in the first place. Fundamentalists are batty!

In the 24th degree (Masonic Ritual), recited the principal incidents in the legend of Osiris and Isis … Everything good in Nature comes from Osiris… Osiris was the image of generative power. This was expressed by his symbolic statues … Osiris and Isis were the Sun and Moon … and is the All-Seeing Eye in our Lodges … Osiris was invoked as the God that resides in the Sun (Morals and Dogma, Albert Pike, pgs. 474-477)

It also depicts the different levels of Freemasonry to the top. Here is an illustration of the hierarchy of the Masonic Lodge, some of which even Masons in the low degrees do not even know exists!

From Masonry Beyond the Light by William Schnoebelen, who reached the 90 degree in the Ancient and Primative Rite. pg 207 Chick Publications


William writes "I was instructed to take the York Rite path at first. Once I entered the knights Templar (equivalent to 32nd degree in Scottish Rite), I was considered "worthy" of the European Masonic degrees. My progression through those degrees was fraught with strange initiations too awful to recount. In a gradual deadening of my conscience, I was brought through the Egyptian rites of Masonry and received the 90th degree, a level few U.S. Masons are even aware of!" (Masonry beyond the Light, pg 203)



Interesting letter:

I am one of the 13 within this state, Illinois. I am what you call the Illuminati. For the record, I am also a 33 degree Mason and the head of the great council of Illinois and many many other ranks and titles.

Judge for yourself...

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
So now it has to appear in masonic ritual?

For it to be a symbol? Yes. Masonic symbols are thoroughly explained in the degrees and the pyramid (unfinished or otherwise) is not one of them.

Find another organization as influential as the masons in America at the time which had such prolific use of the pyramid in its art?

Masonic art is irrelevant. Mozart wrote the Magic Flute with overt Masonic influences, does this mean the Magic Flute is somehow relevant to Masonry as a body?

Things like this are pretty neat about Mozart;


en.wikipedia.org...

Mozart's position within the Masonic movement, according to Maynard Solomon, lay with the rationalist, Enlightenment-inspired membership, as opposed to those members oriented toward mysticism and the occult.[5] This rationalist faction is identified by Katherine Thomson as the Illuminati, a masonically inspired group which was founded by Bavarian professor of canon law Adam Weishaupt,

Of course all evidence of Mozart as an actual member of the illuminati is circumstantial it is interesting that you bring that up.


The magic flute is an entirely different symbol not found in masonry, you are certainly correct in that. However it is of prominence in other traditions of the mysteries such as bardic lore.

As I stated masonry is just an outer shell of the mysteries, or a degenerate one as Pike would likely say.

reply to post by Ladyk74


I thought so... Skirted the lie. And even included a decide for yourself in your long superfluous post