A potential way to fix americas gun problems...

reply to post by MystikMushroom


If there were cars around when the constitution was written they might have been included? No one is saying take away people guns I'm just saying make sure they are trained properly to use them. Imagine how many ACCIDENTAL deaths could be avoided with just requiring a one hour class on proper fire arm handling like loading, unloading, clearing, cleaning, hand positioning, target acquisition and trigger pull.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


If morality can be taught without religion then great.

But it should be taught!

A general question to all, but how many of the recent shooters came from religious schools?

Originally posted by ShadeWolf
reply to post by beezzer

 

Your concepts of morality are what's holding back society. It's all subjective, there is no right or wrong, but you Americans can't deal with that, can you?

oh we could. we just prefer to act stupid. its the most natural thing for us to do after all.

reply to post by beezzer

ok Beez, please explain ...

But if a person has no moral foundation, then you're just training a future killer

if the moral basis of this society has presumably been formed by the churches, it's no wonder we're in such deep doodoo

as for the OPs assertion, it may apply to the gang factor but that's about the only one.
all of the recent shooters have emerged from exactly opposite the environment described above.

reply to post by Honor93


We have lost a moral foundation in our current society. We live in an "anything goes" "everything is acceptable" world. There used to be a sharp delineation between right and wrong. In the past, this foundation was provided by religious teachings.

But since the advent of church and state legislation and the fervent anti-religious movement, the baby has been tossed out with the bathwater.

Our schools have a very progressive approach to teaching now that does not include a moral framework or reference.

One more time. . . if morality can be taught without including religious tenets, then great. But morality must be taught. The parents SHOULD be doing the job, but we're now looking at the second/third generation of the progressive movement where parents have been conditioned to let the schools handle all lessons

reply to post by beezzer


What you don't hear, though, is that church attendance has been increasing, from what I understand. The church that I attend has grown incredibly fast, and there is a brand new Catholic church in town, as well as yet another large nondenominational church gaining members. Maybe it's just where I live and not the rest of the country, but I have personally seen much growth in religion in general. I think it is a grassroots reaction to all the negativity that has been going on for quite a while.

As for morality, society as a whole has seemed to throw it away outside of a religious context. All forms of media/entertainment are more concerned with profits than they are with presenting the right message from a moral standpoint. Seems like schools and universities are teaching kids that there are degrees of right and wrong rather than a more black and white interpretation. Combine that with political correctness, and how do you expect kids to know WHAT to think about anything?

reply to post by beezzer


Star!

I agree, and think that morality can be taught without religion. I don't subscribe to the belief that people are inherently bad (ie; original sin). I honestly think for the most part, people are naturally good-natured. Call me a sappy optimist, but studies in young children have shown that kids for the most part can tell right from wrong on the playground.

I say lets leave the belief systems in the homes and inside religious communities. There are way to many "flavors" out there for people to get all up in arms about. If you want to worship your waterbottle, go right ahead -- just don't indoctrinate someone else's kid into a certain worldview.

We will soon see public schools being emptied as the American people take their blinders off and see the disasterous effects our public schools agenda based indoctrination of our children has affected society. Home schooling and private schooling will be the new norm. Public schools will keep producing their sheep and they will be a burden on society. Fortunately they will be fewer. The more private schools there are the more affordable they will be. The more children that are home schooled the more moral America will become. There is nothing wrong with school prayer, there is nothing wrong with "The pledge of alliegance" . They produce moral adults. So what if you are Athiest? If you believe in nothing it should not bother you that someone else does. Children will make up their own minds on religion as they grow. The Ten Commandments is a good base for everyone to begin life with. A belief that there is something greater than self is healthy. Going back to the days when guns were tools that you taught your children to use and respect is better than them learning about them on TV where they are only used for killing people.

reply to post by beezzer

speak for yourself please, i whole-heartedly disagree.
yes, there are segments of the population who fit that description but by no means is it a majority.

since when is 'tolerance' equal to anything goes ?
again, i disagree as religion has not been able to make up their own minds regarding right vs wrong for all the years they've been in business.

see any 2 conflicting dogmas for comparison and glaring examples.

the part that gets me is what most seem to have forgotten ... America was formed specifically to separate ourselves from the Catholics, yet, in America today, one could easily surmise that they rule the roost.

and no offense to any religious types but thanks to the religious dogma of the centuries, we still have unspoken atrocities, daily. for a 'program' of morality, they've failed miserably

i can't think of any public school program that emphasized morality, ever.

so, are you suggesting we legislate 'morality' ??
seriously, what's your point here

back in my day, many lessons in morality came from the playground and peers, not parents, not church, certainly not school and often, not even within our own family structure.

sure, some relied on the various Churches but we can certainly see how well that's worked out, eh ?

i am trying to understand how 'morals' even entered this discussion.
are you suggesting that supporting self-defense isn't a "moral" standing ??

reply to post by Honor93


I don't want to legislate morality.

Just introduce it to many that have no idea of it's existence. If that can be done without the trapping of religious dogma, then fine.

So many have no reference point to determine what is right versus what is wrong.

All I'm doing is keeping within the theme of the topic and providing a different viewpoint.

Originally posted by jimmiec
We will soon see public schools being emptied as the American people take their blinders off and see the disasterous effects our public schools agenda based indoctrination of our children has affected society. Home schooling and private schooling will be the new norm. Public schools will keep producing their sheep and they will be a burden on society. Fortunately they will be fewer. The more private schools there are the more affordable they will be. The more children that are home schooled the more moral America will become. There is nothing wrong with school prayer, there is nothing wrong with "The pledge of alliegance" . They produce moral adults. So what if you are Athiest? If you believe in nothing it should not bother you that someone else does. Children will make up their own minds on religion as they grow. The Ten Commandments is a good base for everyone to begin life with. A belief that there is something greater than self is healthy. Going back to the days when guns were tools that you taught your children to use and respect is better than them learning about them on TV where they are only used for killing people.

Don't kid yourself. Home schooling is just public school at home. They teach the same out dated crap with little revalence to real life and the classes are taught by public school teachers. Unless of course you mean the parents actually teaching their kids and then in that aspect good luck because parents are not even taking care of their kids let alone teAching them anything they can use in the future. The TV and Video games raise over half the kids in this country I suppose.

reply to post by youthsavior


Games like that sell millions of copies, if they were really the cause, we would be in deep doodoo indeed. There are certain people that don't have the ability to seperate fantasy and reality, these people are the ones affected by games, movies etc. Even if games and movies were banned, it there would still be the violent novels to feed into their......... insanity? Maybe they are a bit insane, I don't know, but the people that I have met that fit the bill have all had their brain chemistry messed with in their adolescent years or younger, through ritalin type drugs, and or antidepressants.

reply to post by marbles87


Many people do homeschool their kids. I homeschooled my two nieces for three years, on top of the "required" JR high school level crap, I also taught them plenty not covered by schools in "classes". Shooting and maintaining guns was on my extra ciricular activities.

They loved being homeschooled, when it was nice, we would be out at a park or beach holding school. Beats the hell out of the sit down, and shut up at your desk education taught at the public schools.

One of the hardest roadblocks to overcome is financial, when it comes to homeschooling. Most families, both parent have to work just to make ends meet. The time of the one bread earner, one caregiver is just about finished these days. People who homeschool still have to pay into the public school system, at least where I was we did.

reply to post by TKDRL


i agree in that you can't try and prevent something from happening by banning it. The solution lies in what you just said, they're mental state begins to teter off at a young age. and this is when it must be caught and dealt with. as a youth, teachers in schools could begin to look for the signs and then try and make productive steps in helping the child fit back into society. and drugs like the ones mentioned are not the solution, they make things worse.

Whether you are religious or not the fact is that a 30 second prayer 5 days a week will teach kids the concept of morality. A 30 second "pledge of allegiance" will teach them the concept of loyalty. Neither will brainwash them. Both are needed in the adult world. Parents should teach their children gun safety/history and what they are really for. Allowing them to see them only as tools of death to humans on TV is not giving them the entire picture.

reply to post by youthsavior


Age might play a huge part in it too, for the most part, my generation didn't have graphic, bloody games until late teens(they didn't exist before then). Mortal kombat was probably the first game I got that was all bloody etc. When GTA 4 came out, the person in front of me was buying it for her 10 year old son, I tried to talk her out of it, and explained what it was, and what was in the game. Her response, was rolling eyes, and saying something along the lines of "Well that is what he asked for his birthday".

Also with movies, I wasn't allowed to watch R rated until around 12, although I did sneak in a few here and there anyways, it wasn't constant bombardment like kids these days seem to get. My favorite TV shows that I can remember were thundercats, ninja turtles, ghost busters cartoon, saved by the bell and the A-team. Way different than the TV shows on regular cable these days too I think.

reply to post by jimmiec


Children reciting something they don't understand everyday teaches them nothing, whether it is prayer, or the pledge.

The only way to teach morality is to tell them when they have done something you consider wrong, or when you are together and see someone else do something you consider wrong. Then explain why you consider it wrong.

I don't think loyalty can be taught to young kids really.

reply to post by TKDRL


They learn the concept. I disagree that they learn nothing.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Maxatoria
reply to post by beezzer

 

A good start and with plenty of training on the usage of fire arms to the level of not making them sexy but like most sane people say a tool for a job then we may actually survive

But if a person has no moral foundation, then you're just training a future killer.

Beezzer, would you mind putting a definition to your term "moral foundation"?