Language is the biggest thought control

For many years I have always thought our language, whatever it is we think in, is the biggest limit to what we can be.

Everything we think has to go thru our ability to find words or a concept of words.

Free thinking, concept and ideas, in this age we live in, must abandon the (extremely) old and limited languages we use.

IMO we must invent a new concept of language that can support a wider band of thinking, and maybe even after that, we can invent yet an another language based on that.

reply to post by iamdavid


You may find the works of Jacques Derrida or some of the other post-structuralists interesting.

i kinda agree with you on this one, we even think with our voice, if you know what i mean, at least i hope im not the only one

Reply to post by iamdavid

I agree. Everything you think makes sense...until you try to express it to someone else through words


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How do you define a "new concept" of language? Do you mean create a new language altogether that deconstructs all the previous biases and notions that have been adapted and emerged from all the old languages. Do you means utilizing a new way of communicating, such as hand-gestures or text-only communications? Do you mean a combination of both these ideas. How do you practically envision such a new language coming about and being used? And how do you plan on "imposing" or introducing such a new style of language without reintroducing all communication and concept biases, as well as getting the eight billion people of world to abandon the traditions and culture that are built-it into their current thousand- and hundred-year-old languages and forms communication? Such a very tall order.

Personally, I think our current way of communication is fine and is always evolving with new materials, concepts and technology.

-Ghoster

I believe language is a big part of controlling an idea but I find its because of too many words. I watched the dr who christmas special the other night and a fantastic little thought was brought up. A character named Madame Vastra had an opinion that a string of words are lies while one word can hold the truth. She tested someone with this method, it was quite intriguing and I tried it myself and hurt some grey matter I think.

Coming on this site shortly after I saw in practice what she meant. Many words used to hide a personal bias or to distract the reader from true intent of the OP. I think less words and a simplified language would really change some out looks on certain ideas if they had less words to work with and fluff up their thought.

reply to post by theghoster


Many times, I find the Feeling a dream gave to me could not be translated to words... To me, this is an example of a limited language.

I just propose freedom, I don't care about spreading.

Didn't someone once tag " The spraybomb is way cooler than the AK-47?" Or sumthin like dat?

reply to post by iamdavid

The key to the whole puzzle is to pursue the common root of all languages. Once you nail that down a lot of other questions will be answered.

Here's a clue. Study a little Sumerian. There are some amazing parallels, particularly with Greek, another early language. What came from Greek? Latin. From Latin? English and the Romance Languages.

Dig.

Originally posted by iamdavid
reply to post by theghoster

 

Many times, I find the Feeling a dream gave to me could not be translated to words... To me, this is an example of a limited language.

Ah, got yeah--the limitation of words to express emotions. I'm sorry, but I can't think of anyway humans can go beyond their physical limitations to express indescribable, perhaps even ethereal emotions. We are just to physically limited by our bodies. Maybe through the use of technology they can be expressed. Maybe we could just assign new words to these feelings, but that wouldn't be helpful, now would it? I think some feelings and experiences just simply cannot not (nor are meant to be) expressed an any form--through language or otherwise.

-Ghoster

reply to post by theghoster


The concept of emotions are based on our ability to explain them thru our language. Beyond that, we just cannot relate to anything other than our feelings, which are not based upon thinking.

If we can make our language advanced enough to match even our sub-conscious mind, a whole new world would be possible.

reply to post by iamdavid


Well--as you can tell by now, I'm a natural skeptic, but I will make an attempt. I think the best form of communication that has any hope of expressing emotions and internal experiences that current forms of language cannot is music--not lyrical music mind you---but the type of music that had no words---it simply expresses a certain mood and tone of an internal experience. So, perhaps a music or tone-based language is what you're looking for?

For example: Think of Gregorian chant or choir music---it has such a sort of ascending quality to it that can't quite be worded, right? Consider Palestrina's Gloria (I know this is lyrical, but anyone without a grasp of Latin would simply hear the concept expressed in the tones.

-Ghoster

reply to post by theghoster

That would explain chanting and the singing instead of speaking of rituals such as in the old Catholic Mass.

Originally posted by PrplHrt
reply to post by theghoster

 

That would explain chanting and the singing instead of speaking of rituals such as in the old Catholic Mass.

Yes, perhaps it could. Music: the universal language of all man and woman--and (if I might add) its liberator?

Words and concepts have different meanings for people depending on the industry/field they are in, or their general experiences as well. I think the route you are going down though is one of those things where you are just over thinking things.

Sometimes it's not about "Control", there very concept of it, is admitting that it is.

reply to post by iamdavid


I agree with fatherstacks.

Look into Jaques Derrida's 'deconstruction'. Derrida is difficult to read however. Also check out the philosophy of Wittgenstein. Also check out E-Prime.

I think if we realize the limitations of language, we can understand how to fix it.

"The limits of my language is the limits of my mind." - Wittgentstein.

reply to post by theghoster

I agree. There is an aura of, can't think of the word, when there is good earthy music being played, drums, etc.

I'm no good with the language today. I'm thinking of Native Americans and the African tribes.

reply to post by iamdavid


Take a look at Anglish. I'm sure that will be interesting to you.

The language is so difficult because we keep borrowing words from Latin languages instead of just using compounds like a Germanic language is SUPPOSED to do.

Originally posted by iamdavid

If we can make our language advanced enough to match even our sub-conscious mind, a whole new world would be possible........

But shied away from. People typically fear what they're not used to. English is the most comprehensive language on the planet. No other has as many characters/words then English, yet most are never utilized as fully as they could be. As a result, the comprehension level of most English speakers is self-limited. I say self limited because there's nothing stopping a person from picking up a dictionary and learning at least one new word a day. Most people don't though because they don't see the point. And as a result of THAT, they're limiting their own possibilities in a world mainly driven by the English language. And that's pretty much where I lose patience with most people. Look at all these other countries in the world with their own languages that are not nearly as comprehensive as English. In most cases their way of life isn't as advanced as ours because they simply don't have as many tools.......words, at their disposal to describe what they're thinking, feeling, doing.......whatever.

And here we English speakers are sitting on a gold mine of knowledge through words.....pissing on our own capabilities because we don't see them.....because we don't think they're important. Sure, there's a time for action, a time to activate what you've been talking or writing about and there's no better time then the present. I know that as well as anyone. I practice what I preach.

Do you?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I partially agree with you. All spoken language is limited by variables. By variables, I mean the amount of words in a given language to communicate what we are trying to express. The emphasis and emotion we place on those words as we speak them, and lastly, our body language, including facial expression.

However, I have found, at least for the English language, most people are not adept at speaking their own language. Therefore, they have trouble communicating, and expressing themselves because of their limited vocabulary and understanding of sentence structure.

So before one blames the language, they might want to take the initiative to learn the language first.