When the Time Comes, Will the Military be With The People, or Against Them?

Man how many decades have you people been wishing for this scenerio? I mean come on. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush Jr. Obama, The UN, FEMA, NWO etc. The names change but the story is all the same. And it is always wrong. I remember when fall of the Soviet Union was just a plan made with Clinton so he could shrink the military and let the Russian led UN forces take over. Or the UN troops in Mexico. Or the Chinese in Panama. Etc. It never ends. And do you know why it never happens? Because it makes no sense. It has not point. Does it not get old always being wrong?

Its 50 50 however what they will do is stage some sort of false flag attack on the military by civilians or militia to try and get the military to attack civilians...

My brother and one of my closest friends just joined the military... one joined the army and the other joined the navy. They both were allowed leave for christmas. Well, I asked them both this question : " if your commander-in-chief brought you home, gave you a gun and some bullets and told you your friends and family were the enemy. If they gave you an order to terminate said enemy would you follow this order? Could you and would you kill your family and friends??"




My brother when asked paused, breathed deeply and answered "what do you think they would do if I didn't? They would kill me and make someone else do it...." he didn't give me a straight yes or no... but he also didn't say anything to anyone for a while.

My friend whome I grew up with was around me and a group of friends, we had all grew up together and were treating to a night a local club in celebration of him being home for the holiday, he looked us straight in the eyes grinned and and answered "of course I would" then grabbed his beer and stood and went to a table with some other military personnel at the club leaving us sitting there shocked and disappointed. Needless to say we left him there that night and no one spoke to him since.

It is a very hard thing to swallow. Knowing that if it ever came to civil war or revolution you would be starring down your sights placing possibly your brother your father your sister your mother your son or your friend on the receiving end of death. Its even more horrifying knowing that the regret you feel is likely not present in their brainwashed minds at that moment. Compassion is a hard thing to swallow

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


I recently spoke with a close friend about this and he said something that shocked me. Him, and everyone in his unit would be prepared to fire on American citizens that the president deemed a threat. He said, "my duty is to the American Federal government, not my neighbors and not the individual people. If someone threatens my government or it's interpretation of the constitution they are my enemy whether foreign or domestic."

I find that disturbing.

while I agree that there will be division, remember theyve been purposely hiring certain types of people for a long time now...

Originally posted by MrSpad
I remember when fall of the Soviet Union was just a plan made with Clinton so he could shrink the military and let the Russian led UN forces take over.

The Soviet Union collapsed in late 1991. Clinton became president in early 1993

I do hope you're right on the rest though. It's pretty unlikely that the current system (whatever you may think of it) would be replaced by something better if things hit the fan. For the most part, I'm an optimist. There are a whole lot of things that could go very badly... fortunately, they usually don't go as badly as people fear.

Considering the majority of the United States military is the average American citizen, my guess is the majority of the American military will protect their families and friends. Stop with your fear mongering. If you aren't military then you could not possibly have any idea how alike we all are.

Originally posted by MrSpad
Man how many decades have you people been wishing for this scenerio? I mean come on. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush Jr. Obama, The UN, FEMA, NWO etc. The names change but the story is all the same. And it is always wrong. I remember when fall of the Soviet Union was just a plan made with Clinton so he could shrink the military and let the Russian led UN forces take over. Or the UN troops in Mexico. Or the Chinese in Panama. Etc. It never ends. And do you know why it never happens? Because it makes no sense. It has not point. Does it not get old always being wrong?

always better to prove you're right rather then say others are wrong
so with these thoughts of yours...make a thread
so we don't hijack this one

hit us with your best shot in a thread

It would depend on the months/years leading to it. If the majority of our troops are across seas then it would be very easy to manipulate what is being told to our troops about the current status back at home. The higher ups could paint a picture any way they would like and without proper communication with back home due to the "uprising" then they would have no way to verify anything.

Greetings ATS

They would call any one resisting a terrorist or insurgent , with this label they can do everything to anyone.
Any county's Constitution will be the first thing going in the garbage can as soon as martial law is applied.
They would go by any means to sell the lie effective enough in order for the military to engage there own people.
The ones that dont follow orders i believe will be made an example to the rest not to question orders.

The biggest proof for me , on how to manipulate entire society's into believing the lie , was the JFK assasination , wich happend way before i even was born , so many leads are neglected its fair to say it was with possible intent to derail the Murder investigation

Last part would be a bit off topic ,but its an perfect example on how proof can be bend in order for the Establishment to push there plans through , not a regiment of soldiers that could do something about it if they wanted.

TheGreazel

reply to post by TheGreazel

That may work for the odd incident but for a great deal of us?
The military isn't that stupid,maybe younger troops might support TPTB but there are so many of us old guys who most in service would respect,I don't think they will have the upper hand.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


First and foremost they are going to want to protect themselves. They will for the most part do as they are ordered to do until they can't stomach the mega loss of life they caused. Eventually, I see for every 3 soldiers, 1 will side with the people and whats the bet it will be the Seals first because they are the least stupid and smarter than the rest of them.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


I Totally Agree with you , however wouldnt these soldiers become "high value Targets" because of there Knowledge , and tactical skill who they will pass on to other "resistance"members by means of training.
And the Government must know these men and woman are the backbone of the resistance and pursue any means to Cut of the head of the "snake"
No doubt There will be men and woman who will Protect the innocent from even domestic enemies,

TheGreazel

reply to post by W0mbat


reply to post by Mapkar


Both those examples are disturbing.

I really believe it would be totally in the hands of generals and higher level officers to make the right decision.

I am thankful I was never put in the position to have to choose the right or patriotic course over the one that provided for my family’s needs. I hope for everyone’s sake they don’t either. I think we all know what the outcome will be. Just like the Jews in the Warsaw who worked with the NAZI’s. They readily turned in their fellows, aided and even chose which jews went away to camps all because they got food and security for their families in exchange.

Before any Soldier (Sailor or Marine) makes some steadfast declaration of noncompliance they need to consider very carefully the implications of their actions.

As this is likely to happen the leadership is going to deal with the first to express such concerns very harshly – they will likely be arrested and court martialed/executed. Made an example...

Married Soldiers face some hard decisions their families healthcare will continue during any pre-trial confinement but this is likely to be a short cycle and once convicted the pay stops. See where I am going with this...they have the Soldiers’ familys as de facto hostages to their will.

I suppose it might be easy if one were financially independent (which I doubt) and/or single with no one depending on then, fine. These types might take a stand.

I have had the opportunity to serve with many great Soldier's, NCO's and Officers in Special Operations Command, many of whom are very intelligent (in practical and educational terms), resourceful (by necessity of their jobs) and above all patriots one and all... However, I have to say that while I wish it were the case that I knew they would side with the constitution. Deep down I wonder how many would engage the population at large (or implement confiscation measures) if ordered to do so by their leadership?

This is why I fear that a good many otherwise patriotic men and women will indeed carry out their orders.

1. The orders won't be worded with constitutionally questionably language. (government is good at this)
2. Most Soldiers live pay check to pay check and TPTB like it that way because your family who is likely far away from any help you can render has to eat and pay the heat and such. Making them de facto hostages to your compliance with orders.
3. The punishments and consequences will affect your family directly and therefore it's not just you who your decision affects.
4. By the time this happens the country will likely be suffering economic hardships and shortages as well which will compound number 3 above making the decision even harder.

Our Soldiers are patriots but in most cases just men and women like me and you trying to provide for their families. If your pay and allowances were to suddenly stop could your wife (and children if any) eat?

I have a personal point of action criteria for direct resistance unfortunately until my daughter reaches the age of majority and my wife no longer needs healthcare from the military I am afraid it is fairly high in terms of what I will tolerate. I am financially well off actually and own my farm outright but even I couldn't afford to pay for my wife's health care and feed my kid on that for long absent my agreed upon retirement benifits.

Basically, as long as my benefits don't stop any resistance I make will be passive (most likely) and or covert (possibly).

However, if the government ceases to pay my benefits either by law or inability (financial insolvency or austerity measures); I would bring the full force of my 24 years of experience in special operations techniques to bear against the government and its agents that did so for I would then have little else to lose.

I have little doubt I am targeted.death isn't a big deal if you know whats waiting for you and I do. Of the many vets I wonder how many of us would have to die before the rest get it?
If something happens and all at once we are getting killed one by one after a while it will be obvious what is happening.I see the Y gen types burning the constitution and ripping any manner of military or gun discussions.How would a man ,who stated he would die before fighting against a violent oppressor, survive as a slave?
You can throw your head in the sand all you want, to avoid discussing realistically what you would do if it did indeed happen,but never discuss it as a possibility? That's what I wonder.
Most just sling dispersions and accuzations but seriously ask yourselves,would you fight for your own existance? Could you?

We have to we took the oath.

Originally posted by CaticusMaximusI really believe it would be totally in the hands of generals and higher level officers to make the right decision.

These men and women in charge are not going to revolt or resign in protest on any moral or legal grounds. Even people at that level are content with the status quo until something personal happens to them or their loved ones.

Now I could see a General who kids were grown and wife had recently died of cancer making some kind of statement but at their level they are not going to for honor's sake drag their junior officers into an open revolt with them. They will just step asside quietly or in protest but it will make no waves.

I know a good number of General Officers, all basically patriotic and law abiding but also ambitious and egotistic.

Like I said many won't resign because they know there are many men willing to take their place in a heartbeat literally who are in love with power.

General Officers are all empire builders who collect followers like feudal lords of old and surround themselves with yes men. All leaders at this level tend to believe they alone are the one who can do their job "the right way".

That said they also are fanatically concerned for the welfare of their Soldier's but not of any altruism IMO but because they have the view they alone can groom and protect them for the future positions of power. They will go to great lengths to protect their Soldiers/Junior Officers.

They will stay and follow orders trying to balance and maintain the line between following their questionable orders and protecting their little empires.

Pure ego not altruism - simply because they have the belief that they alone can skirt the line and protect their subordinates.

Leaders at this level think themselves capable of following/enforcing the will of the politicians, protecting and defending the constitution (even if the two aforementioned things are at odds) and protecting/grooming their subordinates for future power (thus creating a legacy of little mini-me’s who will lead as they lead.)

A lot of leaders at the Field Grade level might protest in little ways within their little spheres of influence. Say turning a blind eye to violations of martial law curfews for people trying to feed their families or say hoarding/selling violations.

However, make no mistake anyone who is perceived to be a threat to the lives of their Soldiers will be swiftly and most ruthlessly dealt with. At this level they care little for politics and care primarily about balancing the saving of the lives of their Soldiers and accomplishing their missions. Heavily weighted to the former IMO.

Anytime a group of people become a thorn in the side of TPTB there will be a response. Look up Bonus Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia; they were WW1 and WW2 vets that wanted the money promised and owed to them by the government.

[QUOTE] At 4:45 p.m., commanded by Gen. Douglas MacArthur, the 12th Infantry Regiment, Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported by six battle tanks commanded by Maj. George S. Patton, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of civil service employees left work to line the street and watch. The Bonus Marchers, believing the troops were marching in their honor, cheered the troops until Patton ordered the cavalry to charge them—an action which prompted the spectators to yell, "Shame! Shame!"

After the cavalry charged, the infantry, with fixed bayonets and adamsite gas, an arsenical vomiting agent, entered the camps, evicting veterans, families, and camp followers. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River to their largest camp and President Hoover ordered the assault stopped. However Gen. MacArthur, feeling the Bonus March was a Communist attempt to overthrow the U.S. government, ignored the President and ordered a new attack. Fifty-five veterans were injured and 135 arrested.[11] A veteran's wife miscarried. When 12-week-old Bernard Myers died in the hospital after being caught in the tear gas attack, a government investigation reported he died of enteritis, while a hospital spokesman said the tear gas "didn't do it any good."[15]

During the military operation, Major Dwight D. Eisenhower, later President of the United States, served as one of MacArthur's junior aides.[16] Believing it wrong for the Army's highest-ranking officer to lead an action against fellow American war veterans, he strongly advised MacArthur against taking any public role: "I told that dumb son-of-a-bitch not to go down there," he said later. "I told him it was no place for the Chief of Staff."[17] Despite his misgivings, Eisenhower later wrote the Army's official incident report which endorsed MacArthur's conduct.[QUOTE] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During the late 60s and all the war protest I remember a poster that was going around some military bases with something to the effect "4 for us and none for them"...It was in reference to the May 4, 1970 Kent State national guard shooting of protesters. [QUOTE] May 4, 1970. The guardsmen fired 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds, killing four students and wounding nine others, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[5]
[QUOTE]

It really depends on how the action is sold to the military...If the proper propaganda is put forth for the action required by TPTB then the military will do what they are told, efficiently I might add..
During the late 60s and early 70s some combat units would have leveled a university and killed everyone (war protesters, long haired hippie freaks seem to be the catch all ) without a second thought if the orders would have been given..Let us all be glad the orders were never issued.

Maybe things have changed but again it all depends on how it is sold to the troops; after all, they are just human and believe what their leaders say is the right thing to do.

You can't trust the military. Anyone who can kill on orders can never be trusted, in my view.

Originally posted by trysts
You can't trust the military. Anyone who can kill on orders can never be trusted, in my view.

That may sound good to you and others might agree because the do not know better either.....However, those in the military (that I have known with very few exceptions) do not want to kill anyone. They force the will of their government through force of arms. If the military is opposed in their operations by an opposing show of force then the strong and smart (supplies help) will be victorious.

You might change your mind if you are ever shot at and come to the realization that you have two choices. Get shot at and hit or return fire and live another day.