why doesn't the UK switch to using this equipment, the current rifle (sa80) is renowed for being crappy, the new American Rifle would be a huge improvement

Originally posted by UK Wizard
why doesn't the UK switch to using this equipment, the current rifle (sa80) is renowed for being crappy, the new American Rifle would be a huge improvement

I say probably pride. The SA80 was originally meant to be chambered for a British designed 4.7mm bullet. But because of NATO standardisation they had the scale teh design up to use the 5.56mm round. This stuffed up the performane of the rifle - it worked perfectly well with the 4.7mm round, although it would have been a lighter bullet.

Here's a picture of the XM8 being held by an ex-Navy SEAL contractor near Saddams victory monument for the Iran-Iraq War in Baghdad.

Those XM automatic rifles look like German G36. Is there any connection between XM and G36?

[edit on 30-10-2004 by Panzerfaust]

The sa-80 is still probably one of the most accurate assault rifles going though... regardless of it's flaws, with the add-on scope it's nigh on impossible to miss

Originally posted by Lucretius
The sa-80 is still probably one of the most accurate assault rifles going though... regardless of it's flaws, with the add-on scope it's nigh on impossible to miss

Oh yes most definitely, I read somewhere that the army had to redesign the tests for accurate shooting because it was so accurate as it is of a bullpup design and has got that SUSAT scope.

It would be nice to have that accuracy and scope with a bit of reliability and ruggedness though. That would be a mighty fine weapon.

Originally posted by Hyperen
It would be nice to have that accuracy and scope with a bit of reliability and ruggedness though. That would be a mighty fine weapon.

Whats the accuracy of the XM8, if its good why not change from the SA80 to the XM8

The UK hasn't paid any development costs, so we're saving money (no offensive America)

It takes a long time to change the main assault rifle of an army (at least in the UK). The British Army are rumoured to be interested in getting G36s but who knows if they will ever get the money to change their weapons.

I'm not sure if the British Army need the XM8. The G36 seems like a good choice since it is supposed to be one of the finest assault rifles around.

Whatever they get to replace the SA80, I'm sure cost will be a major factor in deciding what to choose.

Originally posted by Hyperen
Whatever they get to replace the SA80, I'm sure cost will be a major factor in deciding what to choose.

That's the thing, politcians don't want to spend money on the basic military, expensive planes and missiles yes but not the standard soldier

They save money by not spending money on basic army equipment so they can spend that little bit extra on health, education etc

Originally posted by UK Wizard
They save money by not spending money on basic army equipment so they can spend that little bit extra on health, education etc

The way I see it, there needs to be a balance. A balance between spending on hospitals, schools etc...and spending on armed forces to protect these facilities.

The governments should try to be more efficient since the money does come from the taxpayers.

Originally posted by UK Wizard
why doesn't the UK switch to using this equipment, the current rifle (sa80) is renowed for being crappy, the new American Rifle would be a huge improvement

Mainly cost, and the fact we need to use a british produced weapon to keep the industry going. It costs an awful lot to reequip a whole armies main weapon.

quote: Originally posted by Panzerfaust
Those XM automatic rifles look like German G36. Is there any connection between XM and G36?

XM8 is based on the design of the G36, the same with a new shell really.


And the SA80 refit to A2 standard was carried out by H&K, and the SA80 is based on the AR18, as is the G36. I'd say the rifle isn't as bad as its made out to be,but does still have minor problems. I think part of it is that its a weapon of the cold war era, and so was designed for use in western Europe. Sand wasn't taken into account that much. However, i did once see a test on TV in which an SA80 was immersed totally in water, covered in earth and then buried in sand. It was then taken out and shot perfectly fine.
I think its also important to note that when you here these reports of the rifle being bad, most of them are just from a reporter on TV or in the papers, not from the actual mouths of the soldiers.

Back on to original topic- That US gear is some dope sh*t!

minimi-back in town (nice stargate jetsetter. Hi devilwasp, been holding the fort for the UK youth while I've been gone.)

The standard M8 has a 12.5 inch barrell. This cuts the effective of the 5.56x45mm round down by a lot.

First off, great pictures and info. Second off, the XM8 and FN2000 seem better than the OICW/XM-29, which is supposed to be the "Ultimate Weapon" It looks heavy and somewhat bulky. Plus, it seems hard to get used to with accuracy. I'm better with a handle. That's why it's good with the XM8 with a GL that has a handle, and the FN2000's Bullpup design seems good also compared to the OICW.

I think that is the reason when our soldiers are attacking it looks like the flag is going forward and not backwards.

really cool, now all we need now is handheld energy weapon... that would be cool hehehe

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I think that is the reason when our soldiers are attacking it looks like the flag is going forward and not backwards.

Excatly, if they were running in the wind and charging forward, it would look like that.

The American flag is worn reversed on the left sleeve because the UNIT INSIGNIA is worn on the right sleeve. That's why the flag is "backwards." By doing that, it'll always look like it's being carried forward.

More on topic, how many of these programs does the U.S. Army have? This seems like either an interim program or a totally different, possibly competitor to Land Warrior.

Also, are these systems going to be convenient enough? Sometimes it seems like we're just dragging down our troops with all this high-tech digital gear.

What program are you referring to? Are you talking about the XM-8? And there might be a rush right now to get some future concepts developed so they can be tested in Iraq to see how they fare in battle.