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Fast and Furious Afghanistan: More Illegal Weapons in The Hands of The Enemy?

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posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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While I recognize past "issues" with our witness, the issues with Compass' past. the abundant evidence of ongoing impropriety of PSCs in Afghanistan, and what I have been told by others who have first hand knowledge of the situation with PSCs in Afghanistan outweighs them. This is about getting somebody with authority to take a serious look at what's happening in these camps and compounds, This is about whether our service men and women are being put at unnecessary and avoidable additional risk. This is about an attack on Camp Bastion that seemed almost foreshadowed by what Ben was claiming a year before it happened.

Based on what Ben has told me and what I have been able to find, it appears this situation has not been investigated properly which is not only required by several laws and regulations, considering the realities of the way these PSCs operate(based on the historical and contemporary record, not hearsay) it's common sense to me and we owe our service men and woman that much. There are regulations that have been created by DOD, the U.S. Senate and ISAF requiring ALL incidents like this be taken seriously, investigated thoroughly and properly because of what's happened in the past and is still happening based on very recent reports.

I have seen no indications that these very serious allegations have been investigated properly beyond two investigators claiming "no merits" or "didn't happen", without any evidence backing those statements up (that I can find or have seen).

What I DO see is an attack on Camp Bastion (the exact place Ben's allegations pertain to) back in September, by Taliban members using RPGs, wearing U.S. Army uniforms and very knowledgeable about where to strike, as if they knew the huge camp well. Past investigations into the company in question that have proven misconduct (putting it politely), reports from multiple sources of utter breakdowns in security and discipline within the PSCs in Afghanistan, multiple reports of opiate abuse by armed PSCs, etc... All that, combined with the conversations I've had with people who have had experience over there, and Ben's reporting these incidents long before that attack are too coincidental for me to brush off because the person telling the story has had similar employment issues prior to this.

The attack on Camp Bastion, that's the focus for me, that's where my motivation in bringing this story to the fore to the extent I can comes from.

When researching a story like this you have to look at more than just the person telling you what they claim happened, you have to seek out others you know have been in the same situation and find out what they think of the story. You have to look at the big picture, the U.S. Senate report was what pushed me over the edge, please read it, all of it.

As I stated in the OP, I've filed the FOIA request for report on the single investigation we've been told was done, I have little expectation of that actually assuaging the concerns this story raises but I'll happily report it if it does, I'll also post the report to this thread when I get it so we can all decide for ourselves. Based on what trusted friends and associates who have first hand knowledge of the situation in Afghanistan have shared with me, I am not confident at all.

The bottom line is there is so much evidence of serious, gravely dangerous, issues with the entirety of the PSC system in Afghanistan; videos, reports, stories, multiple witnesses claiming incredible improprieties, senate investigations from years ago that caused new rules be created that are obviously not being followed, etc... All supporting the things alleged by Ben, all things that would make the attack on Camp Bastion much easier. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I didn't do what I could to get the allegations I was informed of out into the public dialog and hopefully get to the truth, whatever it may be.

Springer...




posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by Springer
 


Other than what ben has said, what evidence do you have that Compass ISS was in anyway complacent knowingly or otherwise in the September camp Bastion attack.

Who else have you spoke to that has corroborated what Ben has said?

Do you recognise that he as a source is unreliable?

Because I cannot see any evidence in your OP suggesting another “Fast and Furious”, the title of this suggests that PMC’s are providing arms to Afghan insurgents and there is nothing that proves this.

So another question, is this a thread about weapons being handed over to Afghan insurgents, is it about PSC using illegal weapons, is it about Ben Timmons treatment or is it about all of the above?
edit on 29-12-2012 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by Brotherman
 


I do not doubt that some of the weapons provided to Afghan nationals by either PMC’s or by ISAF forces fall into the hands of the enemy.

However I do not see any evidence in this thread to suggest that either PMC’s or ISAF is deliberately passing arms into the hands of the insurgents.

As for all those weapons you were talking about, I would imagine that most of them were sent for decommission.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by Guyfriday
 


I think what might have happened possibly is that when he saw the RPG’s he tried to leave the security of the camp to report it and for his safety they had to lock him up. That is just my interpretation one thing is for sure based on the volume of evidence I have gathered it is clear that the OP is wrong.

This is very possible, but given his history (or at least the history that we have on him) Timmons may have been collecting this info on his employer to use at a later time (now is that time apparently) He may have seen the RPGs being handed over, and chose not to say anything about it at that time, or as you say he may have left the base to report it. (is leaving the base what "Losing the Plot" means?)

There is no evidence that and PMC’s including Compass are supplying weapons to Afghan insurgents.

Yes word for word everything might have happened as the OP has stated, but there no evidence that Compass ISS have been supplying weapons to insurgents.

I've heard of this before (Blackwater in Iraq) no the company as a whole wasn't involved it this behavour, but rather a few individuals were involved in it (no charges filed, go figure) This incident reminds me of that as well. It may not be the company as a whole, but rather a few groups within the company acting in this to turn a quiet profit for themselves.

I have only been able to look into a small part of this guy’s history outside of this thread and everything I have found shows him to be unreliable.
From my take on this guy, he seems underhanded. This doesn't make him unreliable, just slimey. A person that plans on using info to blackmail, (and lets just call it what it is) has to make sure that the info they have is correct.

To still be willing to believe to OP in the face of this makes no sense when it is based entirely on his testimony.
It really shouldn't matter who posted the info, I think that the only reason the OP is given the extra credit is due to the research they put into this. While the info may only be from one persons testimony, the OP does do a good job on laying out the info, and providing backup data on this. So even if the OP wasn't the Site Owner, I'd still give the story a bit of attention.


***FYI***


I don't know Timmons personally, so my impressions of him being "slimey" are only based on the sample histroy we have been presented to date. He could be a very up-standing citizen for all we know, but given how he seems to have a practice of doing the same routine with the companies that he has worked for. I feel that it's safe to say what I have. If I am wrong about his character, then I'll apologize for it at that tiem.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


What I am suggesting is, is that I do not see it very far fetched for this to happen. I do not claim to know either way for sure but I am saying that I believe the intent is there, the motive, the opportunity is all there. As far as the guy claiming these things he may have issues but as was mentioned before that any reports are supposed to be investigated by law and there should be a filing of there methods and discovery and corrective actions. I do not disagree with your assessment and believe your accounts are equally plausible as well.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Springer
 


I think MANY people are willing to kill the messenger, so to say. You are right though. Its in the interests of everyone who serves in Afghanistan, or any other theater of War, that this gets investigated. You cannot have the foxes sleeping in the chicken coop, and you cannot have them dictating whats right and wrong. NO ONE is above the laws that govern. Good luck on your FOIA requests. I too would like to see this get resolved, and wonder how far down the rabbit hole it goes......



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Guyfriday
 





This is very possible, but given his history (or at least the history that we have on him) Timmons may have been collecting this info on his employer to use at a later time (now is that time apparently) He may have seen the RPGs being handed over, and chose not to say anything about it at that time, or as you say he may have left the base to report it. (is leaving the base what "Losing the Plot" means?)

It is indeed very plusable.

On the issue of the evidence, the OP states that he had evidence on a USB stick that then conveniently was taken form him and had the evidence deleted from it. Now it seems to be a little bit to convenient for Ben, it’s a bit like me saying “I have a picture of a UFO but the MIB took it”, doesn’t make what I have to say true.

Also there is zero evidence in the OP that any weapons where handed over to insurgents, that is the biggest problem I have. “Fast and Furious” in the title and the opening post suggests that these guns are going to the Taliban, yet no evidence of this is shown.

Also “Losing the plot” usually means the same as if you were to go a little bit mad, like he blew the whole thing out of proportion. In this situation my interpretation would be that he saw the RPGs said he was going to go out to report them to the police outside of the safety of the compound/base something that to his colleagues may have seemed totally idiotic given that Helmand province is the most dangerous part of Afghanistan so for his own safety they refused to allow him to leave. Then he has probably added a bit of flair to the story, it’s no longer they would not let me leave the compound but they would not let me leave my room for 3 days. People are very prone to exaggeration.



I've heard of this before (Blackwater in Iraq) no the company as a whole wasn't involved it this behavour, but rather a few individuals were involved in it (no charges filed, go figure) This incident reminds me of that as well. It may not be the company as a whole, but rather a few groups within the company acting in this to turn a quiet profit for themselves.

Again without wanting to repeat myself but there isn’t any proof that this is happening here.

Just because it happened with a few employees of Blackwater in Iraq does not mean it is happening with members of Compass ISS in Afghanistan.

Yes it’s possible that some members might have sold guns to insurgents (unlikely but possible) but there is no way a company as big as Compass ISS would risk their companies future by actively providing guns to them.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


www.telegraph.co.uk...

This is about British machine guns that went missing that no one missed that appeared in the hands of the taliban out of camp bastion



The light machine guns, which can fire 1,000 rounds a minute, were flown from Britain to Camp Bastion in Helmand last October. They were then transported overland to British forces operating at Kandahar airfield but it is believed the convoy was either ambushed or the weapons were illegally sold.



It has happened there before though
edit on 29-12-2012 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by Brotherman
 


Again let me make my possession very clear.

I do believe that individuals do provide some NATO issue weapons to insurgents for personal gain.

I do not however believe that any organisation is doing this, I do not believe that any PSC's are doing this as a means of corporate gain.
edit on 29-12-2012 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


Hmmmmm.....


The new $1 billion contract cemented Triple Canopy's status as the pre-eminent provider of private security services in Iraq, with its heavily armed employees appearing side by side with senior State Department diplomats. But the company's rise to prominence followed a long, often chaotic route, marked by questionable weapons deals, government bungling and a criminal investigation that was ultimately closed without charges being filed, according to newly released investigative files. Company employees told federal investigators that Triple Canopy swapped booze for weapons and supplies from the U.S. military. They said the company bought guns and other arms on the black market in Iraq. Some worried that the money was flowing into the hands of insurgents, records show.


Former Iraq Security Contractors Say Firm Bought Black Market Weapons, Swapped Booze for Rockets



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


I can live with that I am just speculating because I wasn't there, but there is evidence of weapons that have disappeared from this camp in the past, Who and Why is yet to be known other than they ended up in the talibans hands. More importantly the discovery of these missing weapons launched an investigation granted it was the Brits that did that, the fact that it was done and you can read about it is whats most on my mind.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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I'd be interested to hear if Ben ever met with the owner of Compass after his firing and what the outcome of that meeting was.

I saw the request in one of the many documents, but did not see if it ever took place.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


Hmmmmm.....


The new $1 billion contract cemented Triple Canopy's status as the pre-eminent provider of private security services in Iraq, with its heavily armed employees appearing side by side with senior State Department diplomats. But the company's rise to prominence followed a long, often chaotic route, marked by questionable weapons deals, government bungling and a criminal investigation that was ultimately closed without charges being filed, according to newly released investigative files. Company employees told federal investigators that Triple Canopy swapped booze for weapons and supplies from the U.S. military. They said the company bought guns and other arms on the black market in Iraq. Some worried that the money was flowing into the hands of insurgents, records show.


Former Iraq Security Contractors Say Firm Bought Black Market Weapons, Swapped Booze for Rockets



I wasn't going to bring that one up on a few posts back, yet here it is. The more dangerous thing about this stuff from my knowledge is that they were not very secure and anyone more or less could get access to them basically all the stuff they were not allowed to have was stored by their barracks in the international zone by the old nec compound I have heard quite a bit of stories about this kind of stuff, I always steered clear of those guys.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


Yes they the PSC bought guns from the black market.

Does not surprise me? No.

Does it mean that they are then selling weapons directly to insurgent groups? No.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Does it mean that they are then selling weapons directly to insurgent groups? No.



War is big business.

Thats all I can really say.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 





War is big business.


Of course it is.

That’s why these PSC’s are all here, they can make money by protecting individuals in the country such as the logistics companies and everyone else needed to "rebuild" a country in the mist of a war. They earn contracts worth tens of millions, if they were to take a chance and sell guns to the enemy they might sell them for a couple of million but the risk of getting caught is huge. They would never risk their contracts, their future contracts or their very well paying jobs just so they could make a few bucks by selling more guns to the same guys who are shooting at them.

The idea of PSCs knowingly providing guns to insurgents makes absolutory not sense.

edit on 29-12-2012 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin do you work for the government?



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by haven123
 





OtherSideOfTheCoin do you work for the government?

No nor do I work for any PSC.

The government actually has nothing to do with this, the OP is not claiming that the government are supplying the weapons or has anything meaningful to do with what happened to Mr. Timmons he is saying it’s the PSC.

What does a accusation like that have to do with anything.

I do not work for the government, do you?



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin


The idea of PSCs knowingly providing guns to insurgents makes absolutory not sense.



This doesn't make sense either, but it happened......


The Canadian arm of the aircraft engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney closed a six-year U.S. government probe last week by admitting that it helped China produce its first modern attack helicopter, a serious violation of U.S. export laws that drew a multimillion dollar fine.


Pentag on Contractor Caught Illegally Selling Military Technology to China

Its the "getting caught" angle, that seems to be the toughest angle to pinpoint, hey?



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


nope just curious because you seem to be the only one heavily criticising the op's info,and seem to be going to some lengths to do so. regards haven
edit on 29-12-2012 by haven123 because: (no reason given)





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