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Fast and Furious Afghanistan: More Illegal Weapons in The Hands of The Enemy?

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posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Zarniwoop
reply to post by magma

Agreed. Based on his previous lawsuit, I'm leaning toward the bulk of his story being fabricated.

I can't see how it can't be fabricated. If it were true the news would have been all over it.

Ok next please.........

posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 07:04 PM
reply to post by Springer

All interesting and all, but by now it all just sounds routine.

But you know, besides the oil pipes and all other businesses going on in said countries, the arms trade is pretty big business, ultimately it could be something as simple as keeping that trade going by encouraging or looking the other way to all the under the table deals, so eventually somewhere down the line in the future, things can pick up again. Or we can all just calmly believe that things fail this blatantly all the time in supposed war zones.
But then again the definition of war zone may need tweaking as it may not be all up and up with the current times, or at least the civilian definition of it is not up to date. Need to know basis and all that I suppose, as for myself being a civilian I would not know about that stuff.

I mean who knows why wars and such things happen, its like they just spring out of the ground one day magically like a bean in the ground when they sprout and eventually turn into a bean stalks, all done magically. It's like totally all mysterious and stuff, I mean who knows how such things grow out to become such big deals latter. But hey have you wondered what would happen to cops if suddenly there were zero crime, or any misdeeds, and miscreants around? Not that its likely to happen and not that I have anything against the police and cops. But, Yup! it's likely they would all be out of job and work. So what would happen to private security guards PSC's and the corporations that hire and contract out and are making $$$ doing it, when there really is nothing to guard anything from. and they no are no longer needed? You know they say greasing palms gets things through and done no matter which culture and country your in, and greed speaks all languages.

Anyways interesting thread OP.

Wikipedia stuff.
Seems the big boys and there giant military's are not the only ones who are into the global arms trade.
Arms Trade
edit on 28-12-2012 by galadofwarthethird because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 07:08 PM
To me it seems the weapons of war have no country or borders only a global market place. And the places like national guard facilities are being used by states to bypass the federal government and federal regulations by hiding behind state rights. Just take Explo Systems Inc with six million pounds of explosives stored. I found a cargo manifest from Turkey that said they bought 616 pallets of explosives from Turkey in January. And Explo Systems Inc are big in the online ammo sales. And Explo Systems Inc has not had a government contract in two years. But they are allowed to keep buying explosives from other countries? And to top it all off they still have not returned to this country or even talked to federal or state investigators. And they are working out of a national guard base.

Bill of Lading No. FLMHDT3787MC01 Arrival Date 2012-01-05 Voyage No. 9111 Vessel Name DANICA RED Shipper MAKINA VE KIMYA ENDUSTRISI KURUMU TANDOGAN 06330 ANKARA TR Consignee EXPLO SYSTEMS INC 1600 JAVA ROAD MINDEN LA 71055 US Notify Party EXPLO SYSTEMS INC Port of Loading Derince Burnu Port of Discharge Beaufort-Morehead City, North Carolina Declaration of Goods 616 PKGS STCTRINITROLUENE TNT UN 020 LASS 1 13 640 KGS GW 16 PKGS STCTRINITROTOLUENE TNT UN 020 LASS 1 13 640 KGS GW 16 PKGS STCTRINITROTOLUENE TNT UN 020 LASS 1 13 640 KGS GW 16 PKGS STCTRINITROTOLUENE TNT UN 020 LASS 1 13 640 KGS GW 16 PKGS STCTRINITROTOLUENE TNT UN 020 LASS 1 13 640 KGS GW 16 PKGS STCTRINITROTOLUENE TNT UN 020 LASS 1 13 640 KGS GW 16 PKGS STCTRINITROTOLUENE TNT UN 020 LASS 1 13 640 KGS GW 16 PKGS STCTRINITROTOLUENE TNT UN 020 LASS 1 13 640 KGS GW 16 PKGS STCTRINITROTOLUENE TNT… Other Information Available Gross Weight, Number of Units, Volume, Country of Origin, Carrier Code, Ship Registered In, Container Number, Marks & Numbers

I guess that is the official Turkish Government arms manufacturer. They even have there website on the domain.
edit on 28-12-2012 by JBA2848 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 07:23 PM
Thank you Mr Springer for this thread.

Usually PSC work. This Guard did what he felt to be honest and truthful to report this and it could cost him his life. I'm not surprise by this at all because psc are under the direction of somebody's best friend. This lttle operation fot exposed and it needed to be clean up now of I was in this guys situation its time to go run and hide yourself in a little hole because accident do happen.

In this line of work some things must he overlooked and in this case rpg, in Afghan country, in private security possession? Oh they'll all doing but the good guard took note and got shafted.

There is only one group who can get weapons in that country to the Taliban without taking responsibility and they. Do not want an official connection. That's why the money is there to get our mouths shut.

I believe this story is far from over.

posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 07:31 PM
Wow, you meant weapons leak out from our "allies" on the ground like every other war we've been in?
I'm shocked! Shocked I say -- that now we call things related to "Fast and Furious" instead of adding "Gate" at the end of anything we want to blow out of proportion.

Yes, we should leave Afghanistan, but we've got bipartisan support for empire building.

posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 07:43 PM
reply to post by Springer

Nice story. Too bad that without evidence that is all it is. If no one is running with this it is either because it is working as intended or there is nothing there.

whether you agree with it or not it is irrelevant I think our governments have made it clear they do not give to flying 232 about what we think or believe.

posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 07:54 PM
when the earths oil is gone and we need to rely on non nuclear energy whats the main ingredient in rechargeable batteries for cars ect ? lithium! what happens to run through Afghanistan??? lithium

not to mencion the heroin trade and protection of poppy fields
,its extremly viable to keep this perpetual war going on my point of view might be wrong but other route to look a them staying in Afganistan.
Just another perspective to look at whats going on over there

World peace need's to start we are killing our planet and our legacy through pure greed

and as for nato this photo sums them up.....

edit on 28-12-2012 by haven123 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 10:05 PM
Arms traffic is at the heart of all Wars. The US is the best at selling Arms. Look at the Budget. Look at the increase in the Military since....forever. Yes they have cut backs but them make that up with High Profit sells of more Planes, Guns, Bullets, etc.

JFK said look out for the Military Industrial Complex for a reason.

posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 11:25 PM
reply to post by Springer

Seems you have stumbled across one very deep rabbit hole there! Tread carefully; there is clearly a LOT of power behind this, and thus some danger for those looking to expose them. Prayers for angels to guard the steps of those working on this.

The entire time mine was in Afghanistan, all I heard about was rockets, launched on a very regular basis into the camp. This was nearly a daily event. Usually, there were no injuries, because, as I was told, they have terrible aim, but still.....seemed like a lot of rockets.

I guess we know now where they got them. This is big. Huge. Ginormous. Anyone that ever doubted that there is some hidden group controlling things on a global level, well, this looks like proof to me! Blasted thing is a hydra, though; can't kill it by cutting off just a head here and there.

posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 11:30 PM
Nice Job Springer and big kudos to Tim the Kiwi for pulling back the curtain on this one. I'm sure it's only ONE of hundreds of similar situations.

Back in the good old days, when military personnel were doing most of these jobs now done by contractors, if there was even an inkling of one of their own selling weapons to the enemy they'd give the offender a fair trial on aid and comfort to the enemy charges, then they'd get the rope or the rifles out and end the problem right there.

When you privatize military operations you not only have your services provided by the lowest bidder, but they in turn subcontract the local lowest bidders and on it goes. If Ghadar and Tarbiyat, the local subcontractors can make a quick buck from supplying RPG7s to the Taliban off the books they will. After all, they mostly agree with the Taliban ideologically and the Talib in question might be a cousin or brother-in-law. If those stupid infidels want to throw money around, then pretending to be all about "nation-building" is a small price to pay. As long as none of this affects the bottom line the big contracting company won't care.

Even when breaches become known to the ISAF purse-holders, they can't just kick out the offending companies since the contractors have buried themselves deeply into the system so as to become invaluable. Cutting out a rotten contractor takes time and effort and does impact the operational efficiency of the military units they are supposed to be supporting. Many times the unit commanders in question will say "meh, f&*# it" because it's easier that way.

Lucrative reconstruction/security/logistics contracts are all that matters - the fact that Coalition soldiers are dying and coming home broken and disfigured by the RPGs this company let fall through the cracks isn't their problem. The board and the shareholders could not care less about human suffering and misery. It doesn't even compute.

Iraq was highly lucrative - especially during those "golden years" of hyperactive insurgency. Afghanistan is not quite so lucrative, since there's not as much oil money floating around, so the quality of the services have dropped.

Bring back full military control. If you're going to invade and occupy a country militarily then do it - don't pretend it's "nation-building" and have unreliable private industry perform vital tasks - as we have seen in Afghanistan, the operational effectiveness of the ISAF units is being eroded. Green on Blue anyone? Private companies vetting police and military recruits was always gonna end in tears. In this case it has ended up in dozens of dead American, British and Canadian soldiers. But as long as it doesn't affect the bottom line, they'll suckle at the teat until it's dry.

War, Inc.

posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 12:07 AM

Originally posted by beezzer
Holy-moley Springer!

Will have to read more thoroughly but it appears that defense contractors are creating business!

Star, however belated my friend.
And worse, these defense contractors' bosses are having too much a hand in indirectly
rewriting policy that stiflles G1 intel. Add to that a few radical and dangerous spinoff gangs
calling themselves Al-Q, and the bad guys have tools for making a total nightmare.
My God, defeat by design??
No wonder the clamps got screwed on- this could be huge and damning way up there.
I just got through the whole OP slow and ugly an hour later. Is the whole theatre double
dipped? And if somebody on the Hill (like only one..) is sitting on it there goes the home
turf investigation too.
edit on 29-12-2012 by derfreebie because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 12:13 AM

Originally posted by nottelling
When you privatize military operations you not only have your services provided by the lowest bidder, but they in turn subcontract the local lowest bidders and on it goes. If Ghadar and Tarbiyat, the local subcontractors can make a quick buck from supplying RPG7s to the Taliban off the books they will. After all, they mostly agree with the Taliban ideologically and the Talib in question might be a cousin or brother-in-law. If those stupid infidels want to throw money around, then pretending to be all about "nation-building" is a small price to pay. As long as none of this affects the bottom line the big contracting company won't care.

You hit on something important there. I can't help but think, after reading that comment, about how a certain person stated that we "needed" a civilian security force, and that we could "no longer trust the military". Coincidence? I don't believe in those.

For the locals, it's about the money, and their cause. For the contractors, all about the money, and they don't care who wins or loses. For those in control? I suspect far different goals.

posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 12:57 AM
Yes RPGs are bad, but I'm a little more interested in where the money came from to buy the RPGs (and other unauthorized "gear"), and where is the money from these sales going? If these people are illegally transporting weapons then what else might they be up to?

Now are these weapons old Soviet stock, or are they from China? China has a lot to gain from an unstable Afghanistan, but so does Russia. Either way a private company is making money off of these sales, and it needs to be fully fleshed out.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 01:26 AM
Thank you for this thread, Springer-- and a bump from I hope everybody
eligible. The scenario reads (no skimming the second pass!) of something a
whole magnitude dirtier, and further reaching in scope than any F&F/Contra.
Our southern border is terrible enough, with our allegedly supplying arms to
drug cartels. Add to that what appears a self-policing action geared TOWARD
a multi level command disconnect that can put the whole theater in a mulcher.
That points the first circumstance toward something that's mature and systemic.
Good God, is it bad enough to be "If you see something tell nobody?"
For courtesy's sake I had to read through all the replys before coming back, and
fully digesting the OP. Didn't matter, I must have got it right the first time. This
nightmare makes the CFTC look-away tame by comparison. Good Lord. Don't
want to sound too much like Michael Conrad, but "Be careful out there."

edit on 29-12-2012 by derfreebie because: First OP pass blew my organic compiler. It was worse than I thought.

posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 01:29 AM
While there may be some truth to his story, and there is probably a larger issue with weapons, Timmins has at least one failed attempt prior to this to throw a company he worked for under the bus.

Since most probably skipped over it, here is his failed lawsuit against a company he worked for in 2000...

Timmins Judgement

In short, he...

1. Had a disagreement over full-time vs. seasonal employment status.
2. Made allegations of food safety violations in conjunction with his work hours complaint.
3. Did not give specific details (dates/times) of alleged violations in order to aid the company with an investigation.
4. Told customers, a Senator, the USDA and several other organizations about the alleged violations

In this case, the court ruled he was being a royal pain in the arse and was just plain and simple in the wrong.

It is not a stretch of the imagination to assume he had a similar disagreement with Compass ISS and is making these allegations up to get back at them. That might also explain why he is getting little or no traction with his complaints.

I'm hoping more details arise to substantiate some of his claims, but I doubt that they will considering how much time has passed since him being fired.

posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 02:47 AM
An interesting thread,Springer.S&F
These private contractors are part of the MIC so it's no surprise to me that they would sell RPG's to the Taliban and others who have the cash.As another poster said it's all about the bottom line and playing both sides.

posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:14 AM

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by mideast

Those people are one of the most oppressed nations on the planet

Which way?


They were between the former Persian Shahs and their invasions. They were always involved in an unwanted war. Always had to fight and for both ways.

It has been continuing until these days.

posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:51 AM
reply to post by Springer

I'm curious if you showed a similar level of indignation and criticism of the Bush II regime when it didn't bother to have the US military forces secure all the weapon and munition depots and bases in Iraq, from which many IEDs were then built -- not to mention small arms and other munitions.

I'm certainly not defending current US/NATO policies in Afghanistan. However, going in to occupy the place in the first place was the first mistake. We didn't learn from Viet Nam or the Soviet experience in Afghanistan -- never mind attempts by the British Empire and Alexander the Great to subdue the country We should have gone in to get Al Quaeda, including Bin Laden, and then be done with it. Rather, we got into nation building, which was the very thing George W. Bush criticized about US foreign policy when he ran for president the first time.

By the way, both primary US political parties have supported the "training" of Afghan and Iraqi forces )Again, that worked really swell for us during the Vietnam War), so the US political establishment is guilty of putting arms into the wrong people's hands. But similarly we are giving about $5-6 billion in weapons/military to Israel, Egypt and Pakistan each year, and two of these countries are rogue nuclear states.
edit on 29-12-2012 by MrInquisitive because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 04:55 AM
thanks springer
very well written and presented

i hope ben does finally find a crack in the self protecting block wall of defense he faces
issues like this
need prosecution all the way up to the top
i dread though
this as many other issues goes...will not be the case

it is a peer inside or look below what's made to be illegal arms trade...done with legal protection
so sad
he's lucky to be alive

posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 05:04 AM
Such BS. I agree with the comment posters...You blame them for taking your weapons after you bring them to their country? ANYONE Would do that.

Check out what Americans Really do in Video...Anyone can write an article. Articles are so old they belong in newspapers.

This is a real video fo what American soldiers do! FHt6NME56uXQ&index=27

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