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Fast and Furious Afghanistan: More Illegal Weapons in The Hands of The Enemy?

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posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 06:26 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 06:28 PM
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I am not going to get caught up in the details of vetting this, as the point is rather obvious... if true, I don't know, but if it is, should give a very simple and very great pause.

The contracted company, at the core, is contracted by DOD. And the result, is killing Afghanis and in more numbers, really, American soldiers.

What my extrapolation of the story is this: what should give us the most pause is why is our own country contracting players being paid with american tax dollars to kill their own, and lose the war we are in there?



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by tetra50
 


the lithium they are going to mine and drugs trade youtube there tons of vidios of soldiers protecting the poppy feilds the production of heroin in afganistan has rapidly incresed since the war started plus sales of munitions make this perpetual was going
edit on 1-1-2013 by haven123 because: (no reason given)


www.dailymail.co.uk...

www.alternet.org...
edit on 1-1-2013 by haven123 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by haven123
 

absolutely. you are alluding and referring to the many reasons for us to be there now, to begin with, or end with, as it were.....
but, what i was truly hitting upon was why is our internal structure (DOD), sub contracting (obviously, to lessen the degrees of connections and therefore, blame and intent), trying to kill off our own soldiers, which the internal structure sent there, to begin with, as the story seems to illustrate?



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


www.acuarmy.com...

You can purchase them there. The ID cards are almost impossible to fake, according to a friend of mine that was there that did all the staffing of local people, these cards are similar to DOD CAC cards and it not only contains there photo but is inserted with a chip containing all of their biometrics. All foreign nationals must be screened by the DOD no matter what PMC they gain employment with. I still have a hard time with the guy spotting a fake ID unless of course it was so blatently obvious but the details on that still remain a mystery.



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


www.acuarmy.com...

You can purchase them there. The ID cards are almost impossible to fake, according to a friend of mine that was there that did all the staffing of local people, these cards are similar to DOD CAC cards and it not only contains there photo but is inserted with a chip containing all of their biometrics. All foreign nationals must be screened by the DOD no matter what PMC they gain employment with. I still have a hard time with the guy spotting a fake ID unless of course it was so blatently obvious but the details on that still remain a mystery.


That's actual, current uniforms. Should be some control over who can get those.....

The IDs are VERY hard to fake, for certain. That's why I think it had to be pretty obvious fakes.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


www.kdab.afcent.af.mil...

Timmons broke the law, civilian or military any and all violations of these rules posted above should have been reported to COMKAF or military force protection. Instead he calls his boss? By letting those people go that is aiding and abetting. Furthermore I have more than enough verification that the Camp Bastion is guarded by MILITARY for all entry points/ exit points and all local national POVs are 100% searched for explosives, illegal firearms, and drugs by dogs and well trained MP/ Force Protection personnel. This means that those weapons were either already on the base and stayed on the base unless they were allowed to have them. Camp Bastion is broken down into lots of different sections very similar to the demographics of Camp Liberty Complex that was in Baghdad where they had Camp Slayer, Liberty, and a bunch of other bases all connected to one base some required additional security. Something about this does not add up to me at all either way I look at it there is lots of blame to go round too all parties involved, of course this is just my opinion.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by Brotherman
 


That SOP is applicable to KAF only


APPLICABILITY
1. This SOP applies to all personnel and employees, including National Support Elements
(NSE) and National Command Elements (NCE) inside their respective compounds, based at
or visiting Kandahar Airfield (KAF)


I would think there is something similar for Bastion, though.

You bring up a great point here.


Camp Bastion is guarded by MILITARY for all entry points/ exit points and all local national POVs are 100% searched for explosives, illegal firearms, and drugs by dogs and well trained MP/ Force Protection personnel. This means that those weapons were either already on the base and stayed on the base unless they were allowed to have them.


I still think it is possible that he was mistaking these.


for these


Now, that wouldn't explain all the claimed forced-silience and cover-ups, but it would explain why they were allowed through the check-points and why the investigations stopped short.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by Zarniwoop
 


I don't think that there is a similar deal with camp bastion, I know there is one. I have friends that recently returned from there that worked in a civilian capacity, their is SOP anything amiss is to be directed immediatly to force protection no matter who you work for. There is also a standard agreement for employees that are contracted with the DOD or NATO that outlines this as well, that all threats are to be immediately reported to security personnel, not wave the people through and and call your boss by then it could be too late. If he thought it was so amiss he would have called force protection out of common sense, instead he calls his boss and then like a sheep says oh ok I wont call the MPs because my boss says so, then turns around and does what he is doing now. Something is amiss here something does not add up to me.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


www.kdab.afcent.af.mil...

Timmons broke the law, civilian or military any and all violations of these rules posted above should have been reported to COMKAF or military force protection. Instead he calls his boss? By letting those people go that is aiding and abetting. Furthermore I have more than enough verification that the Camp Bastion is guarded by MILITARY for all entry points/ exit points and all local national POVs are 100% searched for explosives, illegal firearms, and drugs by dogs and well trained MP/ Force Protection personnel. This means that those weapons were either already on the base and stayed on the base unless they were allowed to have them. Camp Bastion is broken down into lots of different sections very similar to the demographics of Camp Liberty Complex that was in Baghdad where they had Camp Slayer, Liberty, and a bunch of other bases all connected to one base some required additional security. Something about this does not add up to me at all either way I look at it there is lots of blame to go round too all parties involved, of course this is just my opinion.


He might not have taken proper action, but the fact that no one seems to want to investigate properly should be a warning sign. If they thought he broke the law, they should investigate HIM, and the rest.

Bastion was attacked, so there was a problem somewhere. If there were guards, motion sensors, etc., and no one spotted the attackers, that seems to indicate an inside job. it's not impossible for military to be involved, either. Remember the Ft. Hood case? That was a military officer, and he killed a lot of people. Why would anyone assume there could not be others like him in the military?



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


He wasnt in the military, I think that he didnt get the attention any where else for almost every reason I have talked about on this thread, I personally think he is a fraud. Maybe you can change my mind



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by Brotherman
 


I am willing to consider both possibilities, but no matter what, it should be looked into. That they won't is disturbing. How many have to die before someone looks for the holes in the security? If he pointed out possible breaches, they should investigate, even if all that does is prove he's wrong. From what we have seen, that doesn't seem to be happening. The CID guy telling him it wasn't their job? If he's got proof, that's a proven LIE on their part.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


IDK my opinion he is a fraud I am open to anything, read up everything that was posted I made quite a bit of research and the only answers are well his story. If no one can produce a PMC contract or no one can produce the DOD Compass ISS deal then we will never know. For all you and I know is that Compass was legally allowed to have RPG's I dont care what anyone says about it no contract to look at no proof of illegal activity and if there was illegal activity I hope mr.Timmons has a good lawyer cause he is just as guilty. I have wasted enough of my time and friends of mine into this Timmons. He is a fraud that is my opinion if this never blows wide open I won't be surprised, if it does then I will admit I was wrong. I put enough into this thread to show my case read everything I posted I easily read over 400 pages of material trying to learn about this, because someone feels a way or whatever isn't good enough.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 01:01 AM
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This stuff is annoying they keep arming the bad, and taking away from the good, listen people will give up the 2nd when the world is safe, and you stop arming the bad.....



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


IDK my opinion he is a fraud I am open to anything, read up everything that was posted I made quite a bit of research and the only answers are well his story. If no one can produce a PMC contract or no one can produce the DOD Compass ISS deal then we will never know. For all you and I know is that Compass was legally allowed to have RPG's I dont care what anyone says about it no contract to look at no proof of illegal activity and if there was illegal activity I hope mr.Timmons has a good lawyer cause he is just as guilty. I have wasted enough of my time and friends of mine into this Timmons. He is a fraud that is my opinion if this never blows wide open I won't be surprised, if it does then I will admit I was wrong. I put enough into this thread to show my case read everything I posted I easily read over 400 pages of material trying to learn about this, because someone feels a way or whatever isn't good enough.


Well, as I said, this needs a real investigation. If what he said is true, it must be taken care of. If it isn't, then legal action could be taken against him. I would think, if all this wasn't true, that they would have done so by now. Plus, wasn't a lot of the documentation sent online to the OP? Maybe I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that it was.

I just feel it's too dangerous not to look into something like this. Too many times, we lose people because no one thought something was a problem.



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by Violater1
 


If you care to research, there is an actual letter direct from the company admitting to what Timmons states, albeit the company states the multiple assault by company staff was to protect Timmons and was misinterpreted by Timmons.
I wonder how that admission and piece of evidence will go down in the inquiry especially when those who looked into this say it never happened!

The letter further states Timmons did in fact call to the guard at ECP5 that “he was being kidnapped” and again I wonder how that admission and piece of evidence will go down in the inquiry especially when those who looked into this say it never happened!

YOUR BIG HOLE THEORY CLOSED..



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by Jblake
 


So, they admit to what he claims regarding his detention, but claim it was for some other reason? Why, exactly, would he need to be treated in such a fashion to be "safe", is what I want to hear an explanation for! Sounds like they are lying. If they lie about one thing, why trust them on others?



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by Jblake
 



If you care to research, there is an actual letter direct from the company admitting to what Timmons states,


I don't think I ever came across that document, although I recall that explanation of the incident earlier in this discussion.

Could you post a link to this letter, or even an excerpt perhaps?



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by Brotherman
 



LadyGreeneyes,
With respect, here you go again, wishy washy, say Timmons is a fraud now the company leies, so which is it?
Who has most to gain?
Who admits fault?
Who has independent witnesses that no one has spoken to?
Who has documents supporting the military ballsed it up?
The company in question has a long extensive and documented history of the things Timmons reports.
The US Armed Services report, that I suggest you read, also supports Timmons accounts.

For you to suggest Timmons was at fault and he should be tried makes me wonder what are you drinking these days?

Timmons stood up tried to report those aiding the enemy and who were involved in illegal activities, some activities, involved, Fraud, Hiring insurgents, having a forged operating licence, the transportation and redistribution of RPG’s under the noses of the Authorities at Bastion where RPG’s are the same type of weapon used in the attack at Bastion killing Military staff.

The report of RPG’s at HRDC / Bastion by Timmons, to the so called well trained military security at bastion, as you state, was grossly ignored and in fact the report was given back to the Same company hiring those involved with the illegal arms and Timmons has those documents from the military proving this fact.

So, they admit to what he claims regarding his detention, but claim it was for some other reason? Why, exactly, would he need to be treated in such a fashion to be "safe", is what I want to hear an explanation for! Sounds like they are lying. If they lie about one thing, why trust them on others?

You asked why the company treated Timmons the way they did.
You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to work this out but for those with doubt the main motives was Money fraud and self preservation of those concerned which involved only a top few but affected the survival of the whole company, so the company tried to hide everything and paint Timmons as a disgruntled employee hoping they confiscated all evidence hence why Timmons was dragged pilar to post and searched so many times.

Again this is interesting because you have documents emanating from the company admitting fault and now have multiple independent eye witnesses that the so called investigators never spoke to.
Simply put the investigation was a sham, it was not done in a timely fashion, no one listened, there were conflicts of interest, and no one spoke to any other witness other that the main perpetrators who naturally denied everything, then the company write it did occur!

I also suppose the other reports re compass illegal activities and the US Armed Services Report was wrong too?

Another point you may be unaware of, the company failed to supply its employees with critical information about them having a lawful obligations under contractual agreements, US and ISAF Military regulations and US legislation relating to reporting certain activities to the military where the company deliberately withheld this information and was only available to certain company managers who had privilege to the company library containing the withheld information. Timmins now also has this as proof.

Another point, you stand corrected on, your link you refer to (www.kdab.afcent.af.mil...)
which was published after and has no bearing on matters, however at the time there were and still are specific and more exact military directives pertaining specifically to illegal arms and illegal activities of PMC’s in Afghanistan where Timmons was trying to adhere to those directives and requirements but was aggressively prevented, held against his will under armed guards, (also admitted in writing by the company) incommunicado at differing locations where his requests to be taken to the military police were flatly denied.

If Timmons had not reported what he discovered he could be subject to the MEJA which is another topic pertaining to who has jurisdiction and if you don’t know what MEJA is you may want to brush up on it.
the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act (MEJA) was a bill passed in 2000 that allowed persons who are "employed by or accompanying the armed forces" overseas may be prosecuted under the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 2000 for any offense that would be punishable by imprisonment for more than one year if committed within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
"Employed by the armed forces" is defined to include civilian employees of the Department of Defense as well as its contractors and their employees (including subcontractors at any tier), and, after October 8, 2004, civilian contractors and employees from other federal agencies and "any provisional authority," to the extent that their employment is related to the support of the Department of Defense mission overseas.
This particular Company concerned is registered as a supplier of security services to the US Government with a Central Contractor Registration (DUNS: 561680427) and is also registered with the United States Central Command (USCENTCOM) . The are an authorized provider of security services for supply chain operations supporting US service personnel.
Aiding and arming the Enemy, Mass fraud, US citizens involved in crime, Assault with intent, Kidnapping, Preversion of justice, Ilegal armes, Asceesory to Murder and manslaughter are just a few that would be punishble by imprisionment so yes the company treated Timmons the way they did to prevent these facts be known for obviouse reasons.. You can seen now why the company tries to paint timmons as disgruntled as so no one will listen fut they can’t hide the facts and forever!
So to have the USA Authorities bork at excercising its Authorty where they have jurisdiction, so the reason needs to be explained to the public especially the families unessasaraly KIA as to why the many Authorities that Timmons contacted didn’t do anything other than a cursery look and a big brush off which took this long and now wont even talk to those who can verify Timmons story., heads need to roll …
I can’t wait to see what dribble CID wrote in their report and hope I can get a copy soon.
Furthermore, There was a Military Technical Agreement in place between ISAF and GIRoA, which a copy of was sent by to me by your so called expert military at Bastion, 12 April 2011 outlines No foreign national can be held accountable in Afghanistan by any Afghan authority for any crime committed in Afghanistan and those committing crimes can only be held accountable by the authorities from their own country of origin! (yes- figure that one out but this is the loophole that PSC flaunt)

For those committing crimes. The Authorities from their country of origin say no, we can’t do anything so the perpetrators go free!! Outraged? me too..

Don’t Worry I have seen the document from Varying countries Authorities stating this very fact!

The Authority administering MEJA and the DoJ has No Balls to enforce it or even look at the new evidence hence the necessity to get this information out so some someone with enough care can possibly do something about it.

It is sickening that coalition lives could have been spared if this was properly investigated.

One more thing, apart form changing your mind ever five minutes, you seem educated enough to know by now, No PSC can carry RPG’s

Lookup Procedure for Regulating Activities of Private Security Companies in Afghanistan document 8 if I recall correctly, and there are many other MIO, ISAF and DoD Directives and regulations specially outlawing RPG’s for PSC’s and this includes all contractors, and all subcontractors at all levels. The company knew that RPG’s are deemed illegal because the company were previously in trouble for the exact same thing a number of times throughout 2007 – 2010 and the company knew they would not take another blow as this would cause their contract to cancelled by default by the contracting officer or if the Combat Commander himself had found out, the entire company would be sent home and some individuals would remain in the stockade and be extradited hence why the company was so aggressive towards Timmons and kept him in isolation denying his request to be taken to the MP’s

And your reference to Timmons not being in the Military, You stand corrected again, he Was but retired some years ago and was working for the PSC in Afghanistan as a site coordiator at HRDC / Bastion, and it was when he was moved to compliance, major problems behind the scenes were reveiled where Timmons done the right thing, he tried reporting it to the Intell officer at Bastion, NOT HIS BOSS..
Timmons after he was move over to complaiance and then finding major problems he attempted to report to the authorities accounts of illegal weapons being transported, stored and redistributed, Taliban Staff, Shootouts in the compouns, company abuse and numerous Illegal activities of the PSC but in particular the Safety concerns for personnel, ISAF convoys and its forces, Taliban infiltration and a raft of other concerns in and near camp Bastion and at the Bulk Fuel instalation.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by Jblake
 



Again this is interesting because you have documents emanating from the company admitting fault


I'll ask again... can you post a link to a document that shows the company admitting fault?

I haven't seen one, but considering you have so much, what appears to be inside information on this issue, I was hoping you might have a copy.

Thanks for joining the thread to give your insight.
edit on 9-1-2013 by Zarniwoop because: (no reason given)






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