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Fast and Furious Afghanistan: More Illegal Weapons in The Hands of The Enemy?

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posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by Zarniwoop
 


I still contend that IF Compass works with ISAF and ISAF works with NATO then ISAF can have RPGS and they would be in and around Compass persons. I don't know anything yet but I am trying to make my case more concrete just give me a little I have invested lots of time finding source material that is relevant and am going over it as we speak. Either way we are all here to find a conclusion of what is what.




posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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This is the point where things went horribly wrong according to Ben. During the second day of following Ms. H., Ben discovered RPGs under a blanket in the rear of one of the guard vehicles during his compliance inspection at the check point all the guard vehicles had to pass through to exit the compound. Ben stepped back away from the vehicle and reported what he saw to Ms. H. who responded, strangely, "I've never seen one". Let's stop here for a moment... RPGs are illegal in Afghanistan for obvious reasons, they are the Taliban's weapon of choice. ISAF regulations also forbid the possession of RPGs among non combatant personnel. In other words, a PSC allowing its employees (subcontractors or otherwise) to have RPGs in Afghanistan is huge violation of just about every law, regulation, and contract stipulation and basic common sense imaginable. According to Ben the only weapons these guards were supposed to be carrying were Compass issued AK47s. the PSCs are supposed to keep track of all the weapons in the theater and only those authorized and issued by the PSC should be available to the subcontracted guards.


(Bold is my emphasis)

Ok first thing is first then, back to square one. Has it been stated for an absolute certainty that these guard vehicles where Compass Guard vehicles? I understand that is implied but is that a certain fact and stated they were compass guard trucks if so what kind of trucks were they? These details are important at least to me.

Next if Compass is a guard force are they or are they not considered combatants, this is important to understand a lot more about the operation going on, I cannot find a job title anywhere for site coordinator either I feel lots of small details are missing.

I also would like to know if what was in fact his responsibilty if he knew something illegal was happening if he was the man in charge why did he not stop the convoy why would he call if he was in a position of authority as a leader for a security group why make phone calls and not make an arrest or some kind of detention you would think that if it was a major security issue the guy in charge would have detained them I know I would have? He looks under a blanket and finds contraband and then, lets them go? makes a phone call? doesnt sound very responsible if he was in charge IMO
edit on 31-12-2012 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)
edit on 31-12-2012 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by Brotherman
 



I still contend that IF Compass works with ISAF and ISAF works with NATO then ISAF can have RPGS and they would be in and around Compass persons.


I believe it is OK for ISAF to have RPGs. It is illegal for Compass to have them.


Next if Compass is a guard force are they or are they not considered combatants, this is important to understand a lot more about the operation going on


Compass is a PSC, and their role is supposed to be protective and defensive. They are not considered combatants.




I also would like to know if what was in fact his responsibility if he knew something illegal was happening if he was the man in charge why did he not stop the convoy why would he call if he was in a position of authority as a leader for a security group...


Ben was most definitely not the man in charge or in any sort of leadership role... just the opposite. He was there to do whatever they told him to do.

I believe it is entirely possible, based on the documented common use of illegal weapons by PSCs, that Ben actually did see illegal activity taking place at Compass ISS. I'm not sold on the kidnapping claims and so forth and I am still suspect of his motivation for making the claims.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by Brotherman
 


Ben was there for weeks, not days.

As stated in the OP, he was assigned as the compliance officer, after a couple weeks of managing the fuel depot as a "Static Coordinator" (his actual job title on his ID card), to cover for the person who had that job while they took vacation. His responsibility, based on what he claims, was to report, it was up to management to enforce or correct.

Compass ISS was employed by Supreme Group via contract to provide security services. They were not contracted directly with ISAF or NATO. The money they were paid was supplied by tax payers of the coalition countries (the vast majority of which was the U.S.), they were not allowed to have, much less store and dispense, RPGs to their subcontracted guards, it was and remains illegal.

They were supposed to register, dispense, and account for each and every weapon any of their employees (subcontractors or direct) were to use and those were supposed to be limited to AK-47s. If you look at the Afghan govt. forms required to be a PSC you'll see there are pages to list every weapon, vehicle, person, piece of miscellaneous equipment, etc... I am confident RPGs will not be found on any of those documents for any PSC working as a subcontractor providing security for a logistics company/contractor.

If Ben (and several others I have spoken to with first hand knowledge of the situation with PSCs in Afghanistan) is to be believed, they violated that requirement in a big way. That, combined with the reported utter lack of security (knowing who is working for you and their background), is what this big dust up is about.

Springer...



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by Springer
 


Isn't this why it is encouraged to put everything under deep scrutiny, I would like to see all the documents highlighting all of that for now I do take your word for it. I am putting together a list of inconsistencies with his account as a former professional in this type of work. If you want I will PM you about it but for now that is all I will say on the public sector.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 





The entire time mine was in Afghanistan, all I heard about was rockets, launched on a very regular basis into the camp. This was nearly a daily event. Usually, there were no injuries, because, as I was told, they have terrible aim, but still.....seemed like a lot of rockets.


They don't have terrible aim. They have no aim at all because they hide behind rocks and walls and crouch down and fire their rpg's backwards so they don't get discovered and killed. Their guidance system is called Allah and they pray their shots will hit their targets but the thing about that Great Deciever (Khayrul-Makereen), he gets the last laugh and the joke is on them 'cuz he don't help them ever.



posted on Dec, 31 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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On the contrary after researching the security of the base apparently all vehicles entering and exiting the base are searched by ALLIED forces not Afghan contractors. That being said this account has this to say:




"About every 100 metres [around the perimeter] there are machine gun posts. "Apache helicopters do constant rounds of the base and there are 10m high by 3m wide sand bags which stop rockets, mortars and any suicide trucks". All that means he's been left shocked by how effective the attack on the base was. "I'm very surprised by it because, as I say, the security is very, very tight there. "It means they [the attackers] must have been planning it very very well and must have been planned from the inside as well."

Emphasis is mine
www.bbc.co.uk...

19 Oct 12, 01:17
And then there is this:

"GunNutUSMC
Colonel
Real Name: Ryan
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 1,979

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naffenea
TCNs providing your security? We had similar cut fences in Balad, on the airfield side. TCNs didn't patrol for crap.
We dont have tcns guarding the base in the towers I beleive that it is british and american forces and at the gates its either triple canopy or academi providing security"

www.armchairgeneral.com...

I use this above because this guy claims to be there just like Timmons I understand anyone can say anything online but it does add credence.

I still remain skeptical, It is interesting the name Academi enters into my search apparently they operate out of another base Camp Integrity near by and are largely involved with narcotics operations.
edit on 31-12-2012 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 

From an article I read on the attack at Camp Bastion, the fact that US military uniforms were used suggests that the contractor that does the washing of them, KBR, hires locals. So is it any surprise that US uniforms are stolen and misused in insurgent attacks? And if the uniforms are truly outdated, then the insurgents can be getting the clothes via army surplus venues.

BTW, this was the greatest US aircraft loss since the 1968 Tet Offensive, and the last time this Marine squadron was grounded due to destroyed/damaged aircraft was during the Battle of Wake Island.

We don't agree on much at all, LadyGreenEyes, but I think we have some common ground here. That said, this can't all be blamed on the Obama administration -- although it is clearly at fault here too. This has been going on during Bush II's watch and congress of both parties have done nothing about it, and the MSM AND Fox News have nothing to say about it. This problem and the way this and all recent wars have been waged can be laid at the foot of the US political and news media establishment of both major political parties.


Well, that would be one way they could get them, but from what I have been told (by my soldier husband, who I just asked), it is TCNs (third country nationals), hired by American contractors, that do the laundry. He had Filipinos and some from Sri Lanka where he was. If uniforms were missing, a claim could be made IF the stuff was inventoried when turned in to be laundered. Even if it wasn't, the soldier could inform the base counter-intel people that they were missing, and potentially gone to the enemy. Of course, that would be dependent on all with some missing to take such action, so it's hard to say how likely a source the laundry would be. He did tell me, though, that these people doing the laundry didn't even speak the local language, though. So, that would make it a bit more complicated. Possible, though, and something that investigators should look into, and see if tighter procedures are needed. Surplus, well, I could see that stateside, but it seems less likely overseas. Of course, with probably cells in the U.S., old uniforms could be bought easily and shipped to overseas locations. Customs can't check everything.

I did catch how bad this one was, and that makes it more appalling that we heard nothing, or almost nothing, in the news when this happened!

There is common ground in some areas, with many that I don't agree with often!
No, not all in his lap, though it does seem like there have been far more attacks since he took office. The media is always a joke (and that goes for almost ALL of the MSM, no matter what side they seem to be on). Congress? They can't pass a budget, so I don't really expect anything better on serious issues. Stateside, neither side wants to do anything about border security, and God only knows what's been brought over our borders, and who has brought it. There are good indications that Middle Eastern terrorists have come in that way, and even some that they work with the drug cartels. I really liked a lot about Bush, but he was a JOKE regarding the border (and, yeah, I let him know I wasn't happy about that, more than once). Even calling it a "war on terror" wasn't exactly honest. Terrorism, yes. "Terror", as some vague thing? More like avoiding being politically incorrect. I don't think all Muslims support terrorism, but I think it's dishonest to pretend that certain parts of Islam, the violent parts, aren't an issue.

The intel failures are a huge problem as well. We KNEW that the WTC was a target, because they tried taking it down in '93. Yet, knowing that, and knowing from experts that the buildings had flaws that made them more vulnerable, no one did anything. I also am bothered by the way a plane could hit the Pentagon (I do think it was a plane - saw pictures even then with plane parts in the wreckage), and none of the supposed air defense measures were able to stop it. How the heck does that happen??? You can't fly a Cessna off course there without fighters scrambling, but they flew an airliner into a building? No fighter jets in sight? Assuming that it was a plane, there are really only two possibilities. Either there was a total breakdown in the warning and defense system, or it was allowed to happen.

All these years, and all these attacks, yet they can still show up with weapons and uniforms they should not have, and get through what should have been a very secure perimeter, undetected? We were stationed at MacDill for awhile, and I can guarantee you that if I were to try approaching that airfield, with nothing but a camera, there is NO WAY I would be undetected. How could an airbase in a war zone be less secure? The whole mess stinks.



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by Springer
reply to post by Brotherman
 


I will adjust my statement about RPGs, the point was the PSCs are not supposed to have them anywhere near them, much less be storing and carrying them. I can see how the way it's worded can confuse the issue, thanks for pointing it out.

I've had a link to the declassified US Senate report up since I published this, it's the link in the last post of the OP labeled "U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee Report". That's not the report I've filed the FOIA on, I filed to get a copy of the report of the investigation CID did into Mr. Timmons' allegations.

I did that in the hope of answering the questions surrounding the investigations that I have yet to see answered.

Springer...


From what I have been told, here at home, such weapons should not be anywhere save with those units that would actually be using them, so that is pretty accurate. It's beyond horrifying that someone working there, supposedly running security checkpoints, would allow them though like Mr. Timmons describes.

I guess the lesson for whistleblowers is clear:

Get evidence, with pictures, video, and whatever else possible, and don't mention it to ANYONE while there.

Get said evidence out, and get yourself out, before bringing up ANY problems.

Then, and only then, blow the top off the whole thing.

I think that man is very lucky to be alive, all things considered.



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 



The entire time mine was in Afghanistan, all I heard about was rockets, launched on a very regular basis into the camp. This was nearly a daily event. Usually, there were no injuries, because, as I was told, they have terrible aim, but still.....seemed like a lot of rockets.


They don't have terrible aim. They have no aim at all because they hide behind rocks and walls and crouch down and fire their rpg's backwards so they don't get discovered and killed. Their guidance system is called Allah and they pray their shots will hit their targets but the thing about that Great Deciever (Khayrul-Makereen), he gets the last laugh and the joke is on them 'cuz he don't help them ever.




That sounds about right, from what I heard! Didn't make me worry much less, but I did hear about a lot of badly aimed rockets.



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


You can buy army ACUs online and have them sent to any base you want they may not be army issue but they are close enough to be hard to tell from stripping them off of a man all you need is a valid FPO APE address and a source to pay for them most likely internet is already provided to where items go think about that uniforms are not a problem. There is a lot I see problems with in the OP the ID how Ben here spotted fake IDs all FNCs are issued a form of CAC card that contain all biometrics this is standard policy that is an amazing feat to believe he just knew. I am really at a balance between the story and the situation I don't buy the account as is but believe all war is deception.



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 06:00 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 06:03 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 08:23 AM
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Now wait one minute here....am I in an episode of the Twilight Zone here?

It was about two weeks ago that we all recieved personal messages regarding some of our views on the Newtown shootings right? We were berated for asking questions about information that wasnt adding up. We were using printed proof, picture proof, timeline proof, etc. The claims were based on SOMETHING and yet we were told to stop spreading dis-information and let the families grieve.

Now, we get a U2U from a site owner asking to visit a thread. I assume like the rest that it MUST be something important, so I click the link provided. I am then confronted with this bullcrap thread which is based solely on the claims of a Mr. Timmons' email. Wha!? I thought it was a joke until I finally made it through the whole opening posts by the OP.

You gave us zero proof this dude was ever even IN or near Camp Bastion besides his word. Mr. Timmons claims to have email correspondence with government sources regarding these events. Where are those emails and why werent they provided by Mr. Timmons to prove his claims?

I cannot find any corroborating evidence to Mr. Timmons' claims besides the OP's conjecture. Nothing. How is it exactly that all the information out there regarding a plot at Newtown that has been discussed is irrelevent, but an RPG plot in Afghanistan in which the only proof offered is the word of some guy in New Zealand is somehow even believable by any stretch of the imagination?

So...this Mr. Timmons is causing all sorts of headaches about these RPG's. Hes being driven around, seemingly being kidnapped or something, being kicked in the shins at checkpoints, being told by superiors to back off, and does he stop out of fear? Nope. Huh? So the government can kill all of SEAL TEAM 6 after killing Bin Laden without so much as a question from journalists, but Mr. Timmons does not suffer the same fate?? You cant be serious.

I cannot even see why it would even matter to ME or the USA even IF Mr. Timmons isnt a quack. Who cares!? Some jackoff in Afghanistan with an RPG is zero threat to anyone besides the men and women WHO VOLUNTEERED to be shot at by them.
There is far more proof that RPG's are supplied by Iran or Pakistan than there is that some anonymous Mr. Timmons blew the whistle on nefarious doings by the US Government. You realize WHO Mr. Timmons is trying to portray dont you? Watch the movie Shooter...it'll give you an idea. In that movie, Mr. Timmons is a set up guy in which he claims to be cop, but is really with the government conspiracy designed to cover up a mass shooting at an overseas base...in a Middle East country.Seems pretty close to me.

My advice to site owners is to not post anything at all, or do so under an alias. Just ask Trinity of glp.

Dont send me anymore messages please Mr. Site Owner, I feel I lose IQ points every time I open one from you.
edit on 1-1-2013 by MisterMaster because: (no reason given)
edit on 1-1-2013 by MisterMaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by MisterMaster
 


Explanation: Uhmmm?



Dont send me anymore messages please Mr. Site Owner, I feel I lose IQ points every time I open one from you


From the ATS Privacy Policy ...


To receive newsletters and administrative emails (other than DMCA notifications), you must first respond in the affirmative to the opt-in notification email you will receive soon after joining the site or subscribing to the email newsletter service. If you do not opt-in, you will receive no newsletters or promotional emails. You may opt-out of the emails at any time by clicking the opt-out link in each email, replying to the email with the subject line "unsubscribe."


And from the ATS T&C's ...


16f.) Private Messages: You will not use the private messaging system to send mass messages to multiple member accounts. All private messages are subject to the Terms and Conditions of Use and the Terms and Conditions of Membership. Violations will result in immediate account termination. You also agree that Private Messages are confidential. You will not post or publically display messages received from TAN, their agents, or any other members, in any way, without the written permission of the author. TAN, at their discretion, may review the content of your private messages when, and only when, complaints are received from the recipient(s) of your messages.


You joined up and agreed to recieve messages from TAN and their agents


So as an Owner/Amigo ... Springer IS TAN!

When TAN sends you something ... you don't get to tell them to


Personal Disclosure: Or how about you GTFO!


@Admin & The Mods ... maybe a
is in order?



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 10:27 AM
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Lol, while I applaud your ability to paste TandC's, as well as your stream of useless emoticons, neither detract from the fact that this whole thread is a useless waste of server space does it?
In fact, I cant even tell what your point is. I, like most, welcome messages by mods or owners. I feel that if anyone ever gets inside info...it will be one of those two, so I take their messages seriously. However, posting threads with ZERO definitive or even credible info by a reliable source, by a site owner, reeks of irresponsibility in my opinion. There isn't even a way to debate anything the OP or his source from the movie Shooter claim because the info was either stolen, misplaced, or straight fabricated with no way to verify any of it either way.

Then you call for me to be banned!? You reply to my post, not claiming any info in it is untrue, but to pat yourself on your back for posting forum rules??

Had the OP been anyone besides the site owner, this thread woulda been in Skunk Works the first day. I for one will point out bullcrap regardless of the poster, because thats exactly what this thread is...a big pile of unverified bullcrap.

Sorry Mr. Owner...I love the site, but like all of us, you gotta be prepared to take the critisism shoddy posts bring regardless of your status.



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by MisterMaster
 


Explanation: Just because you were sent a u2u from TAN ... in no way 'forces' you to participate in the thread!

To address your issue with what has been posted ...

This forums 'heading' ...


War On Terrorism: This is a forum to speculate on conspiracies and other issues related to the "War on Terrorism" and the defense of the "Homeland" against terrorists. Discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to lean in favor of conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups. Members who would seek to refute such theories should be mindful of AboveTopSecret.com's tradition of focusing on conspiracy theory, cover-ups, and scandals.


Note: All edits to bold and underline text in the above quote are mine for emphasis

So you seem to be confused over how different ATS forums work!

The Sandy Hook School threads are, generally, in far different forums which have far different headers and therefor far different forum 'restrictions' on what can be posted.

You're a new member and your in a 'privately owned' website ... that is owned by TAN aka The Amigo's.

The issue is one of you showing a serious lack of 'RESPECT' in their house ...



Springer can not defend themselves for fear of being labled 'a powerhungry maniac who can't handle the truth'!

However I can publicly defend them with no such fear ... I am completely independant from TAN.

I made no alert on your posts as of yet ... however I have made it publicly clear what my point of view on this matter is.

You have made this a 'personal issue' about the Author of this thread ... and made accusations agaisnt them.

That is highly against T&C's and I can quote them chapter and verse ... but you can learn that for yourself by rereading them OFTEN as they are linked at the bottom righthand side of most ATS webpages.



Personal Disclosure: I suggest you choose to avoid this thread unless you have something to contribute, aside from mocking it and making accusations against an Amigo!

edit on 1-1-2013 by Springer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by Springer
[mo it true the all we did was scary the civillians and keep kicking in doors and that in over and over thing and come up empty all the time



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 12:06 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


You can buy army ACUs online and have them sent to any base you want they may not be army issue but they are close enough to be hard to tell from stripping them off of a man all you need is a valid FPO APE address and a source to pay for them most likely internet is already provided to where items go think about that uniforms are not a problem. There is a lot I see problems with in the OP the ID how Ben here spotted fake IDs all FNCs are issued a form of CAC card that contain all biometrics this is standard policy that is an amazing feat to believe he just knew. I am really at a balance between the story and the situation I don't buy the account as is but believe all war is deception.


Do you have a link, showing where those can be purchased? Curious as to how close to the "real deal" they are. I do know, in the picture I saw, there was the correct flag patch, that should not be available for general purchase, and the uniform itself looked right. I see those DAILY.

From what I have understood, the fake ID's looked really obvious. I know, on the "Live" broadcast, mention of simple paper was made. I didn't get the impression that some realistic cards were used, and he "somehow knew"; more that it was clear fakes, or no ID at all. Plus, there are certain things on the ID that a real one should have. Something missing, even if they had a "good fake" would be obvious to someone familiar with the real thing. I know the current active dity IDs are pretty serious stuff these days!

It's clear when uniforms are used (at least some being the real thing), and weapons that they should not have access to, that stuff is going out somewhere. I lean towards believing him. The story "rings true" to me (subjective, i know), and I would think it unlikely that someone would open themselves up to libel charges for making such serious claims, if they were false.





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