Fast and Furious Afghanistan: More Illegal Weapons in The Hands of The Enemy?

reply to post by Zarniwoop


looks like a morter bomb not rpg

British accents and British equipment among the Taliban. British accents being detected in the Taliban's transmissions?

reply to post by JBA2848


due to our stupid immigration rules we have alot of radical islamist's in England now whether they got here illegally or though means by claiming to be students looking for a better life ect.

reply to post by Brotherman


a-ha! the stepping-on-toes political power struggle explanation makes sense here. definitely prefer that to the alternatives.

THX for your rational reply!

You know, this got me thinking a bit. This information sounded familiar, an after pondering it as well as the ramifications to it, I figured out why this sounded familiar. The T.V. Series Jericho, insert Ravenwood and it is almost identical. With the rise of PMC/PSC's no bid contracts, large volumes of money, leads to very very disturbing possibilities. Endless wars, illegal weapons trafficking, chasing power and money, leads to no where but suffering for all. I just pray things do not play out like they did in the show. God help us all if it even comes remotely close.

Grim

Looks like this RPG a Taliban soldier is holding without the launcher attached.


And that picture is from a article titled.

How the US Funds the Taliban
aftermathnews.wordpress.com...

Here is a Afghan soldier with a back pack full of them and a rocket launcher in his hands.




The caption on the photo.

An Afghan National Army soldier carries an RPG launcher near the site where Taliban attacked government buildings in Logar, south of Kabul August 10, 2009.
REUTERS/Ahmad Masood

www.reuters.com...=1

Alright....I feel a little slow today. I have been reading all the discussion about the Camp Bastion attack, and what they used, etc. Until today, i didn't realize the DATE of that attack. (As I said, I feel a little slow...). I hadn't noted that this attack, with all the questions about how they got gear, what they knew, and so forth, occurred only days after the Benghazi attack. Three DAYS.

I was watching the news for about two WEEKS after that consulate attack. At no time, in all that watching, did I hear a single mention of the Camp Bastion attack. Nope; all the discussion was on the Benghazi one, with the lies, the denials, the distractions. Well, I guess we can make a better guess as to why that one happened now, can't we? An ambassador and three others killed, because of negligence in security, and my first thought was, "Why did they have him killed?". Maybe it was so people would be too outraged over that story to notice the attack on the camp, to notice that they had our uniforms, and more.

That rabbit hole seems even deeper this evening.....

The enemy? You would not have any enemy, if you would not attack other countries.
So there would not be any "illegal" weapons in the enemiy's hand at all.

Illegeal weapons in a country that is attacked don't exist. Everybody has the right to defend their country from foreign intruders.

The enemy in most cases is the USA. Nobody else thinks, they have the right to attack each and every country they don't like - or to be honest: where they think, ressources can be found.

And what is "illegal"? Illegal is what the US thinks it is? Defending my country against a foreign intruder is always legal. No matter where I get the weapons from. And the intruder is not the one who tells me what is legal and what is illegal.

Hey, David, did you know it was illegal to throw a stone into Goliaths ugly face? You are damned to go to Guantanamo for that bad draw!

reply to post by JBA2848


What you posted...



Looks like a Russian made RPG-7



I still have no idea what this thing is in the video, but it certainly doesn't look like an RPG-7 grenade.



Honestly, it doesn't look like an RPG grenade. It could be kitchen equipment for all I know.

Again, I'm untrained in weapons identification.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

I was watching the news for about two WEEKS after that consulate attack. At no time, in all that watching, did I hear a single mention of the Camp Bastion attack.

I'll have to join the "slow club" as well I didn't hear about the attack until this thread and I was admittedly, too focused on the "Ben" story to give it the research it deserves.

I did find this kind of interesting...

Then 15 men dressed in a hodgepodge of outdated U.S. Army uniforms crept to the edge of the base closest to the airfield on a moonless night, evading notice by motion detectors, infrared sensors, human and canine patrols and overhead surveillance.

Source

I'm not sure how central to the attack the uniforms were, but I am curious as to just how "outdated" they were.

Originally posted by Zarniwoop
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I was watching the news for about two WEEKS after that consulate attack. At no time, in all that watching, did I hear a single mention of the Camp Bastion attack.

I'll have to join the "slow club" as well

I didn't hear about the attack until this thread and I was admittedly, too focused on the "Ben" story to give it the research it deserves.

I did find this kind of interesting...

Then 15 men dressed in a hodgepodge of outdated U.S. Army uniforms crept to the edge of the base closest to the airfield on a moonless night, evading notice by motion detectors, infrared sensors, human and canine patrols and overhead surveillance.

Source

I'm not sure how central to the attack the uniforms were, but I am curious as to just how "outdated" they were.

There have been so many attacks on the bases over there, I was assuming (silly of me) that this was just another of those.

That is interesting. All that protection, and they still got through? Inside help is what that says to me!

I know the one picture I saw, with a portion of uniform, looked current to me. Looked like the desert "digital" stuff, with the flag patch that I have seen regularly on uniforms mine wears. If there are "dated" uniforms, where are the pictures of those? I am curious as well.

reply to post by haven123


I think the thread's title is a little misleading. It isn't that the US is supplying weapons to the Taliban, it's just straight-out giving them money via "contractors" who are supposed to "protect" supply convoys to US/Nato forces, so the headline should be: "US is funding the Taliban". Furthermore, the OP paints this as a "breaking of the story" by ATS, but it is already about three years old. The story here is that the MSM doesn't publish/broadcast stories of this nature.

Read an article about this at The Nation:

How the US funds the Taliban

This article is form 2009. In it a US general is interviewed and acknowledges that this happens.

Why hasn't the congress -- either the Senate Democrats or the House Republicans investigated this?

I'll tell you why: because both parties are made up of lot of worthless politicos who only care about getting re-elected, and so stick to the party line and don't rock the boat. If this inept/incompetent policy is not stopped, then the WH and the Pentagon people responsible -- including the President -- should he charged with high treason and with giving material aid to terrorists. Clearly the US government is incompetent and criminal at the highest levels -- whether it be the Dems or the Repubs.

Instead of paying hinky "contractors" to "protect" convoys, why not have a military unit do this, and provide this unit and the convoys with non-stop drone coverage as well as other air support as a counter-insurgency measure?

This just shows how p!ss-poor US/NATO strategy is and what abysmal leadership (at the general level) there is in the military as well as the civilian Pentagon and the White House.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


From an article I read on the attack at Camp Bastion, the fact that US military uniforms were used suggests that the contractor that does the washing of them, KBR, hires locals. So is it any surprise that US uniforms are stolen and misused in insurgent attacks? And if the uniforms are truly outdated, then the insurgents can be getting the clothes via army surplus venues.

BTW, this was the greatest US aircraft loss since the 1968 Tet Offensive, and the last time this Marine squadron was grounded due to destroyed/damaged aircraft was during the Battle of Wake Island.

We don't agree on much at all, LadyGreenEyes, but I think we have some common ground here. That said, this can't all be blamed on the Obama administration -- although it is clearly at fault here too. This has been going on during Bush II's watch and congress of both parties have done nothing about it, and the MSM AND Fox News have nothing to say about it. This problem and the way this and all recent wars have been waged can be laid at the foot of the US political and news media establishment of both major political parties.

reply to post by MrInquisitive


Thanks for that very interesting article, we all know about how corrupt Afghanistan is, it always has been this way and it probably always will. I do think that the article over simplified by just talking about the “Taliban” I am sure that the other major militant groups are in on this and the usual war lords looking to make a quick buck. Afghanistan has always been ruled by these warlords and I think they get just as much out of this gravy train as the Taliban do.

What is interesting is that your article highlighted a point I made early on regarding Mr. Timmons getting all upset about finding RPGs and DSHKs.

One of the big problems for the companies that ship American military supplies across the country is that they are banned from arming themselves with any weapon heavier than a rifle. That makes them ineffective for battling Taliban attacks on a convoy. "They are shooting the drivers from 3,000 feet away with PKMs," a trucking company executive in Kabul told me. "They are using RPGs [rocket-propelled grenades] that will blow up an up-armed vehicle. So the security companies are tied up. Because of the rules, security companies can only carry AK-47s, and that's just a joke. I carry an AK--and that's just to shoot myself if I have to

I have been saying right from the start that this is why Compass ISS was in possession of heavier weapons because that is what they guys attacking their convoys use and it makes sense that they would want at least similar fire power to give them a even change in a fire-fight.

Why Mr Timmons would make a big deal out of this I have no idea, I bet all the PSC’s do this and its just a “don’t get caught “ mentality.

this all part of the beast - keep commoners killing each other - play both sides.
doesn't matter who wins - only that there is death.
guns for drugs.
the beast gives them guns and they give the beast drugs.
the beast brings the drugs to the U.S and sells them - it's a win win - they get free tax dollar paid guns and a return on 'free' drugs.
this is why the socalled war on drugs will never end - the beast needs to keep the little guy from getting too big.
read : ' Barry and the Boys' - D. Hopsicker
'the Committee of 300' John D. Coleman

Springer,
I think that this statement you made is a bit not true, Afghan forces use RPG 7s as well. I caught that on the radio broadcast as well and made a post to correct that there but for the integrity of this thread I will post this link here also.
"1. RPGs are not supposed to be anywhere near ISAF or coalition forces as they're more commonly called, in Afghanistan because they are the Taliban's weapon of choice." (Springer)

en.wikipedia.org...

(FROM LINK ABOVE)
Small Arms
Model Type Number Dates Details
Makarov pistol Semi-automatic pistol
TT pistol Semi-automatic pistol
M9 pistol Semi-automatic pistol +15,700
Stechkin APS Fully automatic Machine pistol
Mosin-Nagant Bolt action rifle Ceremonial use.
AKM Assault rifle Storage.
AK-47 Assault rifle Phased out of the service since 2008. Used by Afghan Special Forces and some regular units.
AK-74 Assault rifle Storage.
Type 56 Assault rifle Assault rifle Storage.
M16 rifle Assault rifle 104,000 2007–2009 The U.S. military provides the Afghan army with M-16 rifles as part of a modernization effort. It is mostly used by the new cadets of National Military Academy of Afghanistan.
M4 carbine Assault rifle 42,189 2008–2009 Only used by Afghan Army Commandos and Special Forces. M4s sold as part of a 2006 Foreign Military Sales package. Additional M4s sold as a 2008 Foreign Military Sales package.
C7 Assault rifle 2,500 2007–2008 On December 23, 2007, CTV News and the CBC News television network reported that the Canadian armed forces would supply the Afghan National Army with 2,500 surplus Colt Canada C7 rifles along with training and ammunition in order to bring the ANA up to NATO equipment standards.[123] In June 2011, the Afghan National Army returned the C7 rifles in favor of the American M16 rifle.
Dragunov sniper rifle Sniper rifle
M24 Sniper Weapon System Sniper rifle 1,200
M249 SAW Light machine gun 16,248
RPK ATM Light machine gun
M240 machine gun General purpose machine gun 30,152
PK machine gun General purpose machine gun
RPD General purpose machine gun Storage
DShK Heavy Machine Gun
NSV machine gun Heavy Machine Gun Used in low numbers.
M2 Heavy machine gun 19,500
RPG-7 Rocket-propelled grenade
SPG-9 Recoilless rifle
MILAN Anti-tank Missile Limited number available.
GP-25 Grenade launcher
M203 grenade launcher Grenade launcher 9,250
82 mm Medium Mortar Mortar 500
60mm M224 Mortar
81mm M252 Mortar

Also the Report I linked earlier it seems no one has read, I think it is the report you are looking for via FOIA, if that is the case there is no need, I urge again that you look at this report
en.calameo.com...

I have other tid bits of info but they won't mean anything to anyone unless they are looked at.

Brotherman

reply to post by Brotherman

Also the Report I linked earlier it seems no one has read, I think it is the report you are looking for via FOIA, if that is the case there is no need, I urge again that you look at this report
en.calameo.com...

I believe that’s the same document Springer posted it on page 1, not the one he’s after with the FOIA request.

The full U.S. Armed Services Report of PSCs in Afghanistan:
US Senate Report

He also urged everyone to read it on page 9

When researching a story like this you have to look at more than just the person telling you what they claim happened, you have to seek out others you know have been in the same situation and find out what they think of the story. You have to look at the big picture, the U.S. Senate report was what pushed me over the edge, please read it, all of it.

This is a little confusing…

From page 9

As I stated in the OP, I've filed the FOIA request for report on the single investigation we've been told was done

From the OP…

no investigation has been done into this that we know of, that's the problem.

I'm not trying to point out a mistake, but rather to figure out what investigation was done and by whom.

reply to post by Zarniwoop


He posted alot of info so maybe it is I will have to go back and check again, my point is, is that in the past these things have been investigated. There is also a report done by the Brits into missing and then retrieved stolen machine guns and ammo. Also in that report it speaks of all kinds of things this company has had problems with. I am trying to bring attention to this because it is in my opinion probably the most telling bit of information so far as to why this guy is making these claims, the more I look into it the more it seems to me that this guy is making a sensationalization of something else. Arming the taliban maybe, but it seems the taliban also doesnt require this as a hub for weaponry either. RPG's are carried by afghan troops, if the taliban takes rifles off of dead soldiers, abandoned weapons, from Americans and Brits etc, then it is equally plausible that they get armed with ally RPGs from dead ISAF afghan troops as well. There is so many other ways that the Taliban can aquire allied weapons.

Also this was not highlighted and emphasized in that document (and you are right he did source the same document that is my mistake)

" [Compass security] escorts" accompanying~reme convoy traveling to Kandahar.~61
(U) In addition to the recurring problem of Compass guards apparently failing to show
up, the company had other problems with its personnel. In March 2008, Compass management
discovered that two Afghan interpreters who had been procuring ammunition for the company
had been "loading the ammo prices and lining their own pockets, to the tune of quite possibly a
few thousand [dollars] per month.,,~62 Despite that discovery, rather than fire the two
interpreters, the company simply reassigned them.~6J Months later, one of those two interpreters
was involved a violent confrontation with a Compass manager. According to a report of that
confrontation, the manager slapped the interpreter, who retaliated by throwing stones at the
manager and threatening "to attack the [Compass] camp.,,~64 The Compass manager then loaded
and brandished his sidearm before the situation deescalated. Compass did not fire either man
involved in the incident.S6~"
en.calameo.com...
(senate report linked above)
They already knew then that people were stealing in my opinion non action is gross misconduct this is different though than comparing what is probably more likely going on than to fast and furious unless of course I am missing something here.

reply to post by Brotherman

I am trying to bring attention to this because it is in my opinion probably the most telling bit of information so far as to why this guy is making these claims, the more I look into it the more it seems to me that this guy is making a sensationalization of something else.

We’ve been essentially guided to look beyond the specific Ben story at this point and focus on how insurgents are getting weapons. I agree with that, because there is sufficient evidence in my opinion to suggest that his story should not be taken at face value.

Quote from Springer…

This is about getting somebody with authority to take a serious look at what's happening in these camps and compounds, This is about whether our service men and women are being put at unnecessary and avoidable additional risk. This is about an attack on Camp Bastion that seemed almost foreshadowed by what Ben was claiming a year before it happened.

You bring up a valid point…

There is so many other ways that the Taliban can acquire allied weapons.

From your link about the Afghan Army.

The Afghan National Army is funded mainly by the United States through the U.S. Department of Defense, and is trained and supplied by different branches of the United States armed forces.

…As of mid-2012, a steadily increasing concern over the past couple of years, while still not reflective of the readiness and state of Afghan forces and police as a whole, are the deaths of U.S. and coalition forces at the hands of Afghan forces. These individuals are either Taliban or other militant infiltrators, disaffected or disturbed soldiers, turncoats, or who were disturbed by perceived and/or actual improper conduct by coalition forces.

… U.S. training efforts have been drastically slowed by the corruption, widespread illiteracy, vanishing supplies, and lack of discipline

…In some cases, US trainers have reported missing vehicles, weapons and other military equipment, and outright theft of fuel provided by the U.S

So, the U.S. Funds the Afghan Army, (who they know steal weapons from them). They equip themselves with RPG’s and train the Afghan Police force how to use them.

An article from the ISAF website…

Once the policemen were ready to fire, the ANA were there to conduct the live-fire training operation.

The RPG, which has been around since the Vietnam War, can shoot up to 900 meters but is most effective between 300-400 meters. Rocket-propelled grenade launchers are the weapon of choice for Afghan security forces for attacks on armored vehicles.

Afghan Soldiers Teach Policemen at RPG Range

And somehow we are surprised how the bad guys so easily get their hands on RPGs?

reply to post by Brotherman


I will adjust my statement about RPGs, the point was the PSCs are not supposed to have them anywhere near them, much less be storing and carrying them. I can see how the way it's worded can confuse the issue, thanks for pointing it out.

I've had a link to the declassified US Senate report up since I published this, it's the link in the last post of the OP labeled "U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee Report". That's not the report I've filed the FOIA on, I filed to get a copy of the report of the investigation CID did into Mr. Timmons' allegations.

I did that in the hope of answering the questions surrounding the investigations that I have yet to see answered.

Springer...