Should Judas Be Defended?

Originally posted by fourthmeal

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by fourthmeal

 

Judas is a nickname for Judah, same with Jude. It was a very common Hebrew name.

What I have been reading is what is supposed to be Jesus' hidden / covered up explanation of the events and in it there was a clear defense of Judas and a clear condemning of JUDAH. In CAPS. Specifically there were different houses that they came from. I cannot recollect the accurate names right now, which is why for now I'll just say I need to research and keep going for answers.

But like I said, I want more source info before I elaborate. An interesting concept nonetheless. Would not be the first time the Church used something in the Bible as the ultimate scapegoat.

Judah would be a tribe, and Jesus was of the house of David, tribe of Judah. In fact, the Lord's half-brother's name was also Judah/Judas.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

You forgot to add Christ's off the cuff statement that it would have been better for Judas had he never been born to the discussion. That's a great peek into the Lord's thoughts in this matter.

I did add that into the OP. I also think Jesus said that because if Judas wasn't born, his role wouldn't have been to betray Jesus Christ.

Was Jesus saying "It would be better if he wasn't born," with his own perspective, or was he speaking for Judas's own mind? I think that's a good question. I think Jesus was almost prophesying the woes of Judas that would make him suffer, hence his suicide. I think Jesus forgave Judas; Luke 22 implies that Jesus still celebrated and broke bread with Judas. Like I said, if you can find an instance where this notion of Jesus still celebrating the passover with Judas to be refuted, please do.

edit on 27-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

I think it's quite obvious Christ was speaking of his eternal destiny in the pits of hell.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

You forgot to add Christ's off the cuff statement that it would have been better for Judas had he never been born to the discussion. That's a great peek into the Lord's thoughts in this matter.

I did add that into the OP. I also think Jesus said that because if Judas wasn't born, his role wouldn't have been to betray Jesus Christ.

Was Jesus saying "It would be better if he wasn't born," with his own perspective, or was he speaking for Judas's own mind? I think that's a good question. I think Jesus was almost prophesying the woes of Judas that would make him suffer, hence his suicide. I think Jesus forgave Judas; Luke 22 implies that Jesus still celebrated and broke bread with Judas. Like I said, if you can find an instance where this notion of Jesus still celebrating the passover with Judas to be refuted, please do.

edit on 27-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

I think it's quite obvious Christ was speaking of his eternal destiny in the pits of hell.

Maybe for you, but not for me. I could see why your above quote could imply this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see in an instance where Christ directly said this.

And if this is so, why would Christ still break bread with him? I am still going with the premise that Jesus did break bread with Judas since you did not bring up an instance where it said otherwise and I'm too lazy to look for myself

Why would it seem to you that Christ was speaking of his eternal destiny in the pits of hell?

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


A dead human feels no pain. Silly comment if Christ was speaking about Judas' life.

So, even though Jesus had to die anyway so that he can forgive people and allow them to go to heaven, Judas would go to hell for doing something that could not have been avoided?

reply to post by arpgme


People are still responsible for their actions, God being God just knows beforehand which ones they will ultimately choose.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Sure, but if Jesus wasn't crucified then that would be bad right? So why was it evil for them (and Judas) to all be involved with this that was unavoidable and necessary for the salvation of mankind (according to Christianity)?

reply to post by arpgme


What did Jesus say about that very question?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


He didn't answer the question of why it was bad for the people to crucify him if he NEEDED to die for the salvation of humanity.

Not that I'm aware of anyway...

reply to post by arpgme


Sure it does, you aren't looking hard enough.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


Explanation: S&F!

So should Judas be defended?

Yes ... and so should the Devil!

You've been and heard of the Devil's Advocate! What about his Alibi? (by OmegaLogos posted on 20-1-2009 @ 03:19 AM) [ATS]

Personal Disclosure: It is not my place to judge Judas ... but I can certainly try and defend him pro bono before God and using scripture.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Why won't you tell me where?

Christians ARE supposed to be "going out into the world" and preaching 'The Good News (Gospels)", you should just tell me where then.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Why won't you tell me where?

Christians ARE supposed to be "going out into the world" and preaching 'The Good News (Gospels)", you should just tell me where then.

Still looking for the response to Jesus breaking bread with Judas...

Arpgme, if anything, we too should be looking.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Why won't you tell me where?

Christians ARE supposed to be "going out into the world" and preaching 'The Good News (Gospels)", you should just tell me where then.

The good news, (gospel), is the Lord came in the flesh, died according to the prophecies, was buried, and rose again the third day to wash away the sins of mankind. There is no other gospel, or gospels with an S.

What Judas did was prophecied of in Zechariah 11:10-13 and so it had to be fulfilled.

Luke 22:35-38

35 And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”

So they said, “Nothing.”

36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”

38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.”

And He said to them, “It is enough.”

Matthew 26:20-25

20 When evening had come, He sat down with the twelve. 21 Now as they were eating, He said, “Assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me.”

22 And they were exceedingly sorrowful, and each of them began to say to Him, “Lord, is it I?”

23 He answered and said, “He who dipped his hand with Me in the dish will betray Me. 24 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

25 Then Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, “Rabbi, is it I?”

He said to him, “You have said it.”

Now this is purely my own opinion but since it was prophecied that Jesus would be betrayed and it had to be fulfilled, it may be that Jesus knowing the hearts of men even before they were born, knew Judas was a betrayer and he rolled with it by choosing Judas as one of the 12 in the first place.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.


After satan had figured out who Jesus was, finding a betrayer was his next move. Good thing for us satan thought killing Jesus would be the end of the Messiah, but Jesus outwitted him and satan played right into his hands.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

After satan had figured out who Jesus was, finding a betrayer was his next move. Good thing for us satan thought killing Jesus would be the end of the Messiah, but Jesus outwitted him and satan played right into his hands.

Satan knew exactly who Jesus was all along.
If Satan wanted to thwart the big "plan", he would have prevented Jesus' execution.... by killing those who wanted him dead.

God, however, thwarted the plans of the betrayer and of those who wanted Jesus dead.... by saving him before or during the crucifixion. You believe Jesus died. I believe Jesus was rescued.

Wasent it Satan who possed judas in the first place.

Then Satan entered into Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve disciples,And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.-luke

So how is he to blame for anything?

Originally posted by vaelamin
Wasent it Satan who possed judas in the first place.

Then Satan entered into Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve disciples,And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.-luke

So how is he to blame for anything?

Who is the he you are referring to, Judas or Satan?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

After satan had figured out who Jesus was, finding a betrayer was his next move. Good thing for us satan thought killing Jesus would be the end of the Messiah, but Jesus outwitted him and satan played right into his hands.

Satan knew exactly who Jesus was all along.
If Satan wanted to thwart the big "plan", he would have prevented Jesus' execution.... by killing those who wanted him dead.

God, however, thwarted the plans of the betrayer and of those who wanted Jesus dead.... by saving him before or during the crucifixion. You believe Jesus died. I believe Jesus was rescued.

No he didn't know who Jesus was, not until his ministry began. Jesus did die, he even said he would. The sign of Jonah = 3 days of darkness. Jesus was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. What you believe is completely unscriptural from both OT and NT.

Matthew 12:38:42

38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”

39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. 42 The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.

Isaiah 53:9

9 And they made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.

Jesus was rescued from the grave, after he'd been dead 3 days and 3 nights.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


Im talking about judas. If a being as powerful as Satan is able to possess judas how is he to blame?