Should Judas Be Defended?

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posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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Matthew 16:21-23

21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”

23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”


It was prophesied that Jesus Christ was to be crucified. When Peter was disagreeing with the death of the Messiah, Jesus said to Peter the infamous quote, "Get behind me, Satan!"

Was Peter or Satan called out? As humans, we don't want someone to die, especially if it is people that we love. Jesus then calls Satan out because his plan was to avert the prophesies that would save mankind. What better to avert this plan than to address it under the guise of humanly concerns?

But then why is Judas demonized when he had a direct hand in the prophesied crucifixion of Jesus Christ? Partly due to these verses:
Luke 22:1-6

Now the Festival of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, 2 and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus, for they were afraid of the people. 3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4 And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. 5 They were delighted and agreed to give him money. 6 He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present.


Jesus saying someone will betray him


17 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”

18 He replied, “Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, ‘The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.’” 19 So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.

20 When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21 And while they were eating, he said, “Truly I tell you, one of you will betray me.”

22 They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, “Surely you don’t mean me, Lord?”

23 Jesus replied, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”

25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don’t mean me, Rabbi?”

Jesus answered, “You have said so.”

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

30 When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.


We see the woes of Judas as Jesus knew was going to happen:
Matthew 27:5


5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.


So should Judas be defended? Jesus called out Satan for not wanting the sacrifice of the Messiah. Satan is said to enter Judas when conspiring with the elect groups. Although apparently Jesus still broke bread with Judas at the Last Supper, unless someone can find instances where this notion is refuted. Judas had a direct hand in the inevitable prophesy. Judas also has extreme guilt for his role, hence his suicide.

Discuss.
edit on 26-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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My question- Defended against whom?

(All info here is under the assumption that we are debating within the framework of accepting the stories of Jesus and the disciples as truth. I preface this way because I don't want to waste my time with all the "bible is a book of fairy tale" clan)

I have often pondered the fate of Judas. Speaking in terms of Christian belief, I wonder if he is spending eternity in heaven or hell.

If Judas accepted the deity of Jesus and the fact that He sacrificed His life for his salvation, then basically, Judas just sinned as all of us do. (Don't we betray Christ every time we turn from Him to sin?}

But if Judas never accepted Christ and plotted all along- he could very well be in Hell.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 04:52 PM
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I believe that Judas should be defended. It was him that got Christ Crucified, Christ knew it was going to happen. If he didn't want it to happen he could've escaped. Judas didn't understand and felt guilty so he offed himself.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by kimish
 


What is it that leads you to believe that Judas did not understand what he was doing?



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by kimish
 


What is it that leads you to believe that Judas did not understand what he was doing?



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 
I think it is acceptable to defend Judas. Judas played the part he was meant to play, for if he did not the crucifixion of Jesus may have never come to pass, or at least not happened at the appointed time.

One could look at it another way- good cannot exist without evil and vice versa. We must know one to recognize the other. If Jesus knew what Judas would do and forgave him even before the betrayal, who are we to sit in judgement of him?



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by micmerci
My question- Defended against whom?

(All info here is under the assumption that we are debating within the framework of accepting the stories of Jesus and the disciples as truth. I preface this way because I don't want to waste my time with all the "bible is a book of fairy tale" clan)

I have often pondered the fate of Judas. Speaking in terms of Christian belief, I wonder if he is spending eternity in heaven or hell.

If Judas accepted the deity of Jesus and the fact that He sacrificed His life for his salvation, then basically, Judas just sinned as all of us do. (Don't we betray Christ every time we turn from Him to sin?}

But if Judas never accepted Christ and plotted all along- he could very well be in Hell.


In my opinion, Judas entered the hell of his mind; he couldn't handle what he did and committed suicide. To physically betray the Son of God would be the worst thing to realize. But, somebody was/had to be the betrayer. Like Jesus said, it would been better if Judas would not have been born, because I think if he had not been born, he would not have been the betrayer and carry that burden.

I don't think people that do bad or commit suicide burn in literal hell as popular doctrines assume. I think there is a hell, but not the church's version of it where humans are being burned, This is not a subject I want to venture on this specific thread as I think this might derail the question at hand.

Defend against whom? Popular beliefs.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 
I think it is acceptable to defend Judas. Judas played the part he was meant to play, for if he did not the crucifixion of Jesus may have never come to pass, or at least not happened at the appointed time.

One could look at it another way- good cannot exist without evil and vice versa. We must know one to recognize the other. If Jesus knew what Judas would do and forgave him even before the betrayal, who are we to sit in judgement of him?



Well said littled, and you touch upon a pertinent subject that is applicable to all facets of life.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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I personally don't believe Judas needs any defense.

You're assuming the prophecy was the cause, and what Judas did was the effect. The prophecy said it would happen, it didn't make it happen. God foreknew, and spoke of it. He didn't cause or make Judas do anything.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by Klassified
I personally don't believe Judas needs any defense.

You're assuming the prophecy was the cause, and what Judas did was the effect. The prophecy said it would happen, it didn't make it happen. God foreknew, and spoke of it. He didn't cause or make Judas do anything.


I am not assuming the prophecy was the cause and what Judas did was the effect. In my opinion, when a prophesy is given, it does not imply that the given message is the cause. It is a message about the tidbit of knowledge of the future that is pertinent to the group receiving the message. With that in mind, if a true prophesy is given, then the future is set for that event to happen and the product of that future is set by the cumulative events at the time the prophesy is given. If anything, I think Satan plays a pivotal role in the fulfilling of the prophesies. .

The death of Jesus Christ was something Satan did not want because it would save mankind, and I think also forbade Satan from re-entering Heaven for any reasons. What better way to avert this plan than to address it under the guise of humanly concerns through Peter?

Then Luke goes on to explain that Satan entered Judas because I think if Satan learned that if he can't prevent the death, he still wanted to get his hands on the action because he detests the truth and prides in himself that much. This would be in accordance to today's assessment of Judas's lack of faith of Jesus Christ as the spiritual Messiah; Satan saw this weakness and misguided Judas into betraying Jesus, fulfilling the prophecies.
This is just my theory, of course.
edit on 26-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


You forgot to add Christ's off the cuff statement that it would have been better for Judas had he never been born to the discussion. That's a great peek into the Lord's thoughts in this matter.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by kimish
 


What is it that leads you to believe that Judas did not understand what he was doing?


Because Judas didn't know/believe that Christ was the Lord. This is apparent in the Greek where he uses the term for "Lord" associated with honoring a good teacher. Much different than the terms used by Peter and Mary which showed they recognized Him as the Almighty in the flesh.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


What do you think Christ would say? "No, Judas betrayed me so I don't love him" or "I forgive Judas and love him as myself?"



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:19 AM
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reply to post by SpiritofEnoch
 


You don't have to speculate. Jesus said it would have been better for Judas had he never been born.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 08:11 AM
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Interesting discussion.

According to the NT story, Judas can be considered the true saviour of mankind, because it was his betrayal allowed the "sacrifice" to happen.

But that doesn't make sense, because Jesus did not need to be betrayed in the first place. Jesus escaped his persecutors a few times.

If sin sacrifice was indeed his mission and purpose, he could have surrendered to those who wanted him dead... and saved Judas all the guilt and the pain of suicide.... and possibly hell.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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I think that Judas is the scapegoat for JUDAH, the real piece of crap.

I don't have a good source yet, still trying to collect data. Let's call it a hypothesis.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by fourthmeal
 


Judas is a nickname for Judah, same with Jude. It was a very common Hebrew name.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by fourthmeal
 


Judas is a nickname for Judah, same with Jude. It was a very common Hebrew name.


What I have been reading is what is supposed to be Jesus' hidden / covered up explanation of the events and in it there was a clear defense of Judas and a clear condemning of JUDAH. In CAPS. Specifically there were different houses that they came from. I cannot recollect the accurate names right now, which is why for now I'll just say I need to research and keep going for answers.

But like I said, I want more source info before I elaborate. An interesting concept nonetheless. Would not be the first time the Church used something in the Bible as the ultimate scapegoat.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


You forgot to add Christ's off the cuff statement that it would have been better for Judas had he never been born to the discussion. That's a great peek into the Lord's thoughts in this matter.


I did add that into the OP. I also think Jesus said that because if Judas wasn't born, his role wouldn't have been to betray Jesus Christ.

Was Jesus saying "It would be better if he wasn't born," with his own perspective, or was he speaking for Judas's own mind? I think that's a good question. I think Jesus was almost prophesying the woes of Judas that would make him suffer, hence his suicide. I think Jesus forgave Judas; Luke 22 implies that Jesus still celebrated and broke bread with Judas. Like I said, if you can find an instance where this notion of Jesus still celebrating the passover with Judas to be refuted, please do.
edit on 27-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 27-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


What do you think Christ would say? "No, Judas betrayed me so I don't love him" or "I forgive Judas and love him as myself?"


The latter. The former would postulate conditional love, which is the opposite of the epitome of Christ.





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