Syria converting manned aircraft to unmanned, page 1

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Topic started on 26-12-2012 @ 01:20 PM by Zaphod58

Last June, a Syrian Air Force Colonel flew a MiG-21 aircraft to Jordan and requested asylum. The Syrian government immediately said they wanted the pilot and aircraft back, and that he hadn't asked for asylum, despite him having removed all name, rank, and unit markings from his flight suit.

Now US Intel teams allegedly have said that the MiG-21 has been modified to carry WMDs and fly unmanned. The report has yet to be confirmed, but if true would allow the Syrian government to carry out kamikaze attacks against any targets within range of the aircraft. The aircraft could be preprogrammed to fly a certain route, and hit a target at the end of it.

It's believed that Russian engineers assisted with the conversion, although it's not known if this is the only one, or if there are more of them that have been converted.

This is coming from Israel, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt. It wouldn't be hard to convert them to an unmanned missile, but why would Russia help with that? It's like with the Iskander missiles, and it would provide more fuel to the powder keg that is the region. I have the feeling that this is someone looking for more of an excuse to hit targets in Syria, either with or without US/NATO support.

According to Israel Hayom daily, the Mig-21 fighter jet flown by a defecting Syrian pilot to Jordan last June was found to have been modified by the Syrian Arab Air Force to carry weapon of mass destruction and to fly without a pilot.

Indeed, U.S. experts who examined the plane believe that, with the help of Russia, Assad’s engineers have converted that airframe and possibly some more of the same type in the SyAAF inventory.

The Syrian Mig-21, piloted by Colonel Hassan Hamada landed at the King Hussein Air Base in Mafraq, Jordan, on Jun. 21.

Even if Hamada had removed his rank and requested political asylum upon landing in Jordan, the regime immediately denied that the Mig had defected and requested the airplane (and its pilot) to be returned.

Inspection conducted by U.S. intelligence teams on the plane revealed modifications that could explain why Syria put so much pressure on Jordan to have the jet back.

theaviationist.com...

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 01:28 PM by Wrabbit2000

I have a question.. Two actually.

1. They are saying the modified MiG 21 is the same one landed back in June? That the defector was flying this upgraded MiG? ...took awhile to use this in the public domain then eh? If not...I'm confused?

2. Here is where I am at your mercy to answer a question..because I know nothing of what I ask. Your posting has given me the distinct impression you may have background to glean insight on this........ What are the general differences between a modern Jet Fighter which IS modified for WMD (Chemical in this case..since Syria focused on building nothing else) and one that is not? Obviously, modifications to make it capable of remote control would be glaring to the point of absurdly obvious.....but to the systems firing or dropping the weapons? What is the actual difference between a dumb High Explosive bomb and a VX or Mustard weapon outside the different color banding on the case?

edit on 26-12-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 01:42 PM by Zaphod58

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

There's not a lot of difference. On a nuclear capable tactical bomber the difference is in the pylon wiring. There's not any real external difference. I'm not sure what the difference would be for a chem/bio weapon, but I don't see where there would really be a huge difference. It might need a slightly different pylon due to the weight of the weapon being different, but I really don't see why there would need to be an external difference.

If it was flying manned, it would have to be modified for the pilot to wear a MOPP suit, just in case the weapon leaked and got into the cockpit, but unmanned I don't see what modifications would be required just to carry a chem/bio weapon as opposed to a regular weapon.

The real difference is that a chem/bio weapon is lighter from what I understand. It doesn't require as much explosive (that would be a Bad Thing with regards to the payload), and the payload isn't as heavy.

edit on 12/26/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 01:43 PM by Corruption Exposed

I'm not buying it. If he were to use them he has many other ways of using WMD's and they are all more effective than risking the loss a Mig-21.

I hate to attack the source but the author David Cenciotti seems a bit out there as he even tried to tie in Hezbollah on the plot. I wonder who he is really writing for?

Also from your source:

The news has yet to be confirmed by U.S. sources.

As you said I would take this with a grain of salt, a very small grain of salt.

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 01:48 PM by Zaphod58

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

I trust the author, as he has posted a lot of interesting information about both sides of this conflict. I don't trust the source (being Israel), and I wouldn't be surprised if it was his information that added Hezbollah in, and he just reported it. Although the Hezbollah link does make sense. They did prove that an aircraft could be flown deep into Israeli airspace, and if Syria DID do something like this, there's a chance they could get it into Israel before being intercepted.

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 01:51 PM by ausername

reply to post by Zaphod58

From your source:

With the help of Russian or Iranian engineers, they may have modified one or more Mig-21s to use them in kamikaze missions either against the Free Syrian Army or Turkey, Israel or Jordan in an attempt to spark off a regional war.

That is one of the goals of a clandestine Islamic group, a regional war that could potentially unite Muslim sects, especially against Israel. They will stop at nothing or will not relent until they do, or die trying.

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 01:57 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by Zaphod58

Thanks again for an insightful reply. I love your threads because you maintain them and never abuse your readers ..even when we ask really dumb questions.

As noted in another thread here, I just wish we could know what was true and what wasn't. Truth always dies first in a war, of course, but in this one? I can't help but think Truth got tortured for a few days and then burned at the stake for amusement....all that well over a year ago. Talk about a time when independent judgement and insight from those with depth of knowledge on a topic is critical.

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 01:57 PM by Corruption Exposed

reply to post by Zaphod58

I will try and take your word that he is a balanced reporter but I took a look at his website and he seems pretty one sided to me, but most reporters are.

Another point I would like to add is that the United States have a very good relationship with Jordan, including American troops in Jordan, so if there was a Syrian jet equipped to fly without a pilot and fitted to release WMD's the United States would have it confirmed by now.

And it has not been confirmed which leads me to believe it is a US /Israeli attempt to shed more evil spotlight on Assad and his regime. This is all my opinion though so I am not presenting it as fact.

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 01:58 PM by Zaphod58

reply to post by ausername

I trust the "rebels" about as much as I trust "Israeli intelligence sources". A regional war would be just what many extremists would love, as it would topple at least one government and give them the opportunity to install their own government in its place.

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 01:59 PM by ausername

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Zaphod58

And it has not been confirmed which leads me to believe it is a US /Israeli attempt to shed more evil spotlight on Assad and his regime. This is all my opinion though so I am not presenting it as fact.

Not just the Assad regime, but also the article clearly implicates the Russians and Iranians as well.

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 01:59 PM by Zaphod58

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

There are times that he is, but a few months ago he did a pretty good job of disassembling some FSA videos that claimed to have shown them shooting down aircraft and helicopters, including one that was a remote control aircraft, and one that was shot on a cell phone held sideways, so it looked like the helicopter was crashing when it wasn't. I trust him more than I trust other sources.

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 02:03 PM by Corruption Exposed

reply to post by Zaphod58

Well thank you for the insight. I will bookmark his page and use it to get alternate views on events as they unfold since it always helps to see multiple perceptions of the situation.

Cheers.

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 02:07 PM by ausername

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by ausername

I trust the "rebels" about as much as I trust "Israeli intelligence sources". A regional war would be just what many extremists would love, as it would topple at least one government and give them the opportunity to install their own government in its place.

A regional war isn't going to be confined to one country, their goal is an all out Arab/Muslim vs Israel war.

Assad is allied with Iran, the Alawites and Shiites are opposed to Sunni Muslims, but there is a possibility that they all could unite and stop fighting in the Syrian conflict IF a regional war can be made to happen. Key to that is to provoke the Israelis to strike at targets in the region....

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 02:10 PM by Zaphod58

reply to post by ausername

It'll be interesting to see what would happen with a situation like that, as Israel has treaties with several nations now. Do they abide by the treaties, or throw them out the window? A number of them are buying IAI equipment now as well, including early warning systems, and ISR systems. So Israel would know just how to deal with them. So a regional war would be different than in the past.

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 02:20 PM by ausername

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by ausername

It'll be interesting to see what would happen with a situation like that,

I believe (and hope I'm wrong) that we are going to "see" what would happen soon.

Both Syria and Iran, especially the deteriorating situation in Syria, and the Iranians getting close to being able to have weapons grade uranium enrichment capabilities, as well as the strong alliance between the Assad regime and Iran would make them both relatively urgent targets for preemptive strikes.

That could be the domino that gets it started.

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 02:23 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Just playing Devil's advocate here for a moment....but were you aware Turkish production lines for the F-16 Fighter had successfully hacked and removed the IFF restrictions placed there to prevent NATO planes from accidentally engaging and shooting EACH OTHER down? In this case, the fighter production in Turkey made pretty big news on the point, although they assured the world that the numerous OTHER nations who also fly the F-16 in that part of the world would NOT be given the retrofit kits to openly engage Israeli planes and kill them.

Odd too how that was accomplished a considerable time before the current crisis with Syria blew into open flames. Almost as if the need were anticipated well in advance...

The Devil's advocate is in how many people had no idea that was a factual change in strategic balance? It ran big news ...for a very SHORT time...when it was first announced. So..how many things relating to the MiG work could also have actually been in the public ..but dropped almost immediately from sight ...to leave people legitimately feeling as tho it's all truly brand new and unprecedented? UAV MiG's? Thats an interesting change ...If it's actually a new change.

(interesting Avatar change...not bad..just different. I almost missed ya entirely without the familiar ghost!

)

reply posted on 26-12-2012 @ 02:25 PM by Zaphod58

reply to post by ausername

I'm afraid you're right. The powder keg keeps getting bigger and bigger, and hotter and hotter. Sooner or later someone is going to do something, and the opposing party won't be willing to look the other way, and it's going to go off.

reply posted on 27-12-2012 @ 09:27 AM by stirling

I do have my doubts about this report................on the other hand it is entirely possible.
The participating examiners being US and Jordanian, how did Israel get this info And why would they get to announce it?
The US has said zip on the subject.,,,,This makes me a bit leery...
Not that reality isnt getting bent out of shape by all sides....
These mods to the plane maybe possible and still retain a pilot, but i would think it may be tough to add the remotes and retain a pilot too....?

reply posted on 27-12-2012 @ 12:30 PM by hp1229

Why would they use a slower vehicle to deliver the warhead? I'm assuming into territories with less capable defense to shoot down planes and missiles? I mean a missile generally can travel lot faster to its destination than a Mig-21.

reply posted on 27-12-2012 @ 01:14 PM by Zaphod58

reply to post by hp1229

True, but a ballistic missile is much easier to detect launching than a MiG-21 taking off is. A missile launch sends up all kinds of warnings, and is easily tracked, where a plane at low altitude can get much closer to target before anyone knows it's there.

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