Eye of Horus, 30,000 years and lots of paint.. The cave unlocked??

i hadn't seen the birdman/elephant in the cave, his feet look interesting,how are you
pulling these segments?? have you got a full pic you can put up of it(the whole cave painting)??
i'll be able to watch the documentary tomorrow..

Perhaps I can try to bring this thread back down to earth a little....

I really tried hard to see all these connections that were being made and.... well... sorry.. I think it is too far for my imagination.

I was quite surprised by the detail of some of the pictures, the very accurate depictions of some of the more "exotic" animals and very fine lines of some of the drawings.... not bad for civilisation that lived in a cave so long ago..

Surely if they were capable of such accurate drawings of a rhino, they would simply have just drawn a picture of the eye of Horus... assuming that was actually part of the plan.. why would they want to hide something like that..

So to be fair to the OP, I took a look at some of the photo's I took of a trip to local nature reserve that I did recently.

The area used to be inhabited by a group known as the Bushmen and the Area they lived in, is known as The Karoo. The Bushmen can be traced back in some parts to the Stone Age and are known for their rock paintings throughout Southern Africa. Since the Bushmen are still around, it has been a very simple task to decode some of the paintings and understand their culture, way of life and methods of communication....

Back to the pics...

The first pic is a classic Bushman painting. This one depicts the Bushmen during one of their rituals. They enjoyed smoking some local herbs during the ritual which is why they appear to be very tall.... Also, notice the fine lines and sharp edges...

If you are worried about the lack of heads... don't.... no crazy herb induced decapitation.... just a different pigment that was used for the heads - which has now faded... Promise.....

Here is another picture taken from a different part of the reserve.. I can't recall the full story of this picture, but notice the style, fine lines, the way they have depicted themselves etc...


Now.......

Here is another picture... same people, same rock.......
Holy Cow! The bushmen saw ancient aliens... look at the size and shape of the heads, the thick lines depicting the spacesuits, the anti gravity boots that helped them move in the strong gravitational pull of the earth.. The plasma rifle or perhaps a laser weapon.....


Actually, No....
This is a picture describing the arrival of the European settlers with their wide brim hats and boots on their feet. (Bushmen didn't know about shoes)

How about this one...
Did the Bushmen see strange hollow tortoises following Giraffes?

Nope.... Just settlers with their wagons...

What about this one.. ( I have taken the liberty of drawing in some lines to show you what I see) - and sorry for the large picture.. you need to see it up close... same rock cave btw....

Did the Bushmen have exceptional knowledge of the ancient land masses... could they have had knowledge of Antarctica? Maybe the herbs they smoked during their rituals allowed them to astral travel...

I could go on with this one, but it's actually not a painting at all.... it's moisture that has leeched some of the minerals out of the sandstone rock through cracks....


My point is that ancient people with very basic language skills and simple drawings to depict things that they have seen or done would not go to all the trouble to hide secret messages in paintings. There could, no doubt, be some lines and curves that could be interpreted to mean something completely different. But that is our modern eye, modern culture, modern language and modern desire to find secret hidden meanings to really simple pictures....

Having said all that.... a star to the OP for a fun thread, and a bonus point effort...

Originally posted by Extralien
Domestication

There are two pictures that stand out..well it all stands out but you know what I mean..
One picture is on its own..

It appears to be a camel.. with a difference..
Is it wearing a harness ready to pull stuff?

It's not a camel, nor is that a harness. You can't harness a camel like that. It's an elk ... and I can think of several things that the line might be, but harness isn't one of them.

And this horse.. It is bleeding at its mouth.. the bleeding seems to have been caused by a set of reins that have been fitted..

That's some kind of pigmentation in the cave. You can see it on other paintings... I am not sure, but that may be fungus (I know the caves are having trouble with algae and fungus that were brought in by tourists and that they are having to take measures to conserve and preserve the images.)

From what I remember, horses do bleed in the mouth if the bit is incorrect or you try any other method of fitting the reins without a bit.. so is that the case here?

Reins don't cause mouths to bleed. Reins are just ropes attached to the horse's headgear. You get bleeding at the mouth from metal bits (not wood, leather, etc) that are designed to cut the animal's mouth as a form of punishment (force it to hold its head high, prevent it from tossing its head, etc.)

In other words, you have to have a metal spike in the animal's mouth that is designed specifically for harm.

The horses of that era were not domesticated. When you domesticate animals, certain physiological changes occur.

reply to post by where2oceansmeet



I can't speak for the op but there's a vast difference between the two,mainly being years.
what interests me is
1 the period it was painted in..there seems to be a discrepancy around that time,with two
very different types of 'inteligence'(for want of a better word)
2 im a painter and whether the painters had any intent,i don't know(nobody does)however
looking harms nobody...and these paintings hold motion,which instantly says to me they were
quite accomplished.
3 alot of tribes use substances and fire light for 'spiritual' reasons with symbolism.

there may be clues left without origanal intent or they might have been having a laugh


doesn't really matter,it's sometimes just fun to inspect,and im greatful there are people like the op
who can look and see what some may not

i agree on the cats face in the lionesses
i didn't see the bottle
and i possibly may never have found this painting without the op or this site

and i'd hope you'd agree it's a lot more interesting than guns,shootings and doom porn



i'd also like to throw perception into that..personally i don't believe(no evidence)that we perceive things quite as the 'ancients' did,i think there's a simple answer to the puzzles yet unlocked,we just can't look at it the way
they did..perception is vastly misunderstood imho

reply to post by where2oceansmeet


I think cjttatu already covered most of this but anyway.

Although I see your point and I do agree that the OP, me and others could and likely are looking way into it. That said, your example of the bushman isn't really comparing apples to apples. More like oranges and tangerines. I say this because of the timeline. For starters even when you showed the pic of horses and a square. I immediately recognized caravan. Additionally one must take special note of when it was created. The reason of course is based off information provided by our ancients that wrote on clay and stone. Making it clear that their ancients were more advanced then them.

I would argue that our ancients carried on information and science learned from a people they considered ancient. We can see much of this from the Sumerians, Egyptians, Hopi and even the Greeks and Romans. It wasn't until the 3 faiths of Abraham and the decent into the dark ages that much of this was lost. Even the Romans had technology we have yet to give them credit for. Had it not been for Christianity IMO we would understand a great deal more about our past.

I don't mean to turn this into an anti Christian rant but let's be real here much was lost because of Church, his pope and things like the inquisition. People forgot how to read for a long long time. It wasn't permitted and the church even kept the king from learning in some cases.

Back to the point of this thread and response. Even if these photos are being overanalized it sure makes for good fun to an inquisitive and curious mind. And it's because of adventures like this that many secrets hidden in symbology were discovered and even accepted by the main stream.

reply to post by Byrd


Ah I agree not a camel but I think I might have to disagree on it not being a harness. Whatever it is is clearly tied around the animal. You can see how it is drawn in a way that gives perspective and depth clearly showing it is lying on top of the animal and held fast by a ridge or bump on its back. You can also see a not tied right where the hip and hind leg meet with his stomach. Furthermore it is clear that it is a seperate "item" therefore man made as it goes between the stomach and hind leg where the leg covers some of the material. Going further down you can see how I looks as though the "harness" for lack of a better word breaks off into 3 strands. All of which seem to continue around the body (stomach). I don't think there could be other explanation that this Elk or deer like creature was somehow domesticated possibly as a work mule of sorts. Seems weird though and although I'm not familiar with Elk living in Pennsylvania I am intimently familiar with deer. They have a unique fascination with jumping in front of my car. And I'll admit, they are one of the last creatures I'd want to domesticate because they are way to skittish. That said, what seems unusual to me can be quite normal to someone else. And well, they could have quite possibly tried to domestic a Rhino and accidentally killed their artist which is why the quality seems to change lol. Which forced them to try another animal and due to geographical restrictions were forced to domesticate the skittish. Also keep in mind that if yu raise an animal from birth there behavior is typically more calm than if born in wild. They could and likely were way more in touch with earth than us and for all I know the Elk might have wandered right up to a human out of curiosity. And could have been hand fed by the people also...who knows.

reply to post by masta12d


reply to post by cjttatu


Whilst there might be a very big difference in the ages between the paintings I posted and the ones of the OP, the Bushmen/San have been around for a very long time. There have been Bushmen artifacts found that date back to the stone age and beyond. That would make them about the same age, if not older than those mentioned by the OP... The paintings of the OP are very similar to the thousands of other very old rock art found in all parts of the world.

Much of the Bushmen tradition and history was passed down by way of dance, story telling and, to a lesser degree, rock art. I would imagine it would be the same for all primitive type cultures.

I don't deny that the paintings show a very high level of sophistication, but I don't think there are any hidden messages in there. I truly believe that they would have simply painted the Eye of Horus exactly as is and not tried to encode it into something else.

A more plausible scenario would be that they "tagged" an even older painting...

Just a little aside about the Domestic Cat -

Cats have been intimately intertwined with Humans through all of recorded history. (And before)

They arguably were instrumental in saving Man-Kind from extinction on more than one occasion.
(Famine/Plague)

Cats have always been seen as mysterious/mystical/spiritual/other worldly/paranormal/telepathic/precognative/demonic/godly.

They have been loved/hated/revered/feared/deified.

Cats are never once mentioned or refered to in The Holy Bible.

Of all Domestic Animals the Cat is the sole Creature that Domesticated itself.


As I have said there is much to be considered.

Originally posted by where2oceansmeet
not bad for civilisation that lived in a cave so long ago..

There is no evidence (as of yet) to suggest they lived in this cave, however there are lots of skeletal remainsof cave bears.. the main inhabitants of this cave.

Surely if they were capable of such accurate drawings of a rhino, they would simply have just drawn a picture of the eye of Horus... why would they want to hide something like that..

The intent of most of the paintings is to hide the obvious. It's like a library. Their knowledge of everything they know. It's not something they'd want to easily share with any joe blogs who came along. If you were of the age and from a completely different area and you saw these paintings, the best you'd manage is to see there are pictures of some beastson the walls.

If you are worried about the lack of heads... don't.... just a different pigment that was used for the heads - which has now faded... Promise.....

I don't doubt you. But, as Byrd (in a post earlier) and the investigators of the cave have both commented on (plus yourself) time, errosion and fungal growth take their toll on everything. Remember these cave paintings were done between 32,000 and 20,000 years ago. This cave was chosen for a reason...to preserve the paintings.. their knowledge. I would dearly love to see these paintings as they were. There are many lines and markings that are very faint and it's difficult to see how they relate. There is art work on top of art work, and, if I'm right, lots of it deliberatley blended with other stuff to hide the true meaning.

Straight away I see backpacks and walking sticks.. these two are on a journey.. going hunting? trading to the next village? collecting resources?

How about this one...
Did the Bushmen see strange hollow tortoises following Giraffes?

Nope.... Just settlers with their wagons...

You can only paint to the best of your knowledge, skill, ability and availability of materials. When you compare this picture you have provided to the cave paintings, it's like a 6 year old did it. (no offence to you I realise you''re trying to make a point) The cave paintings show immense skill.. and possibly a major advance in knowledge.

Did the Bushmen have exceptional knowledge of the ancient land masses... could they have had knowledge of Antarctica? Maybe the herbs they smoked during their rituals allowed them to astral travel...

The difference with the map I see is that they appear to have left land marks. One may possibly be the location of a major city.. It's very close to Marakesh.. or is Marakesh.. I looked ay yhe pictures and saw things that made sense. I followed one clue after another. i did not just look and imagine. The paintings made me think. 300 years ago, I'd have had no idea what a crater was or a mushroom shaped explosion, or maybe even what a rhino was.. would have just been a series of strange creatures and other lines.

But it is the toothed 'hippo' with the long tongue that really clinched it.. You cannot mistake it for the Egyptian version...which is supposedly thousands of years apart, yet it seems the image had been in use all that time.

There could, no doubt, be some lines and curves that could be interpreted to mean something completely different. But that is our modern eye, modern culture, modern language and modern desire to find secret hidden meanings to really simple pictures....

But these are not simple pictures. and it is because of our "modern eye, modern culture, modern language and modern desire to find secret hidden meanings" that I was able to see what I see.

Having said all that.... a star to the OP for a fun thread, and a bonus point effort...

Thanks for the star and the compliment It's all good..
I expected this type of feedback (or worse) and am getting it and I'm quite happy to discuss in order for all of us to get to the bottom of it all.


Thanks for taking the time to present what you have.. kinda gives you an idea as to how much time I've spent on this so far

Originally posted by where2oceansmeet

A more plausible scenario would be that they "tagged" an even older painting...

And that is what may have been done.. some of the pictures do go over other stuff.. intentionally or not, there is stuff there that may never be seen due to someone painting over it..

Why and how we may never know.

Originally posted by Byrd

That's some kind of pigmentation in the cave. You can see it on other paintings... I am not sure, but that may be fungus (I know the caves are having trouble with algae and fungus that were brought in by tourists and that they are having to take measures to conserve and preserve the images.)

This is one of the problems with this artwork.. From what I can see they have been so very clever. They have not only used the lines and cracks in and of the rock but they may very well have copied the colours of the rock and fungus.

There is one painting (i cannot put it here due to its content) that is very descriptive and suggestive, yet on one part in particular it looks like natural rock lines, but when you see it as how they imagined it you wonder if they painted it..

Discolouration has to have taken place too.. along with further fungal growth (as we all rightly agree on)

The problem we have in proving what is paint, what is natural, is that we need to get there and sample each bit, or at least see it close up, in order to determine the difference between it all. This is a highly accomplished set of paintings. Lots of skill and knowledge has gone in to almost every part..

Originally posted by DENBY
Just a little aside about the Domestic Cat -

Cats have been intimately intertwined with Humans through all of recorded history. (And before)



Of all Domestic Animals the Cat is the sole Creature that Domesticated itself.


As I have said there is much to be considered.

Although it never occurred to me that cats domesticated themselves and I don't disagree I simply don't know. However when you mention the Cat as the sole creature that domesticated itself, another animal comes to mind. The Lemur! I remember watching a documentary on how humans co-exist with the Lemur's in a small village. Not by choice mind you but due to limited available real estate.

reply to post by Extralien


Talking about similarities?

Olmec tree of life?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/dl50df4e27.gif[/atsimg]

Göbekli Tepe Turkey Bird


Easter Island Bird


Göbekli Tepe Turkey statue hands


Easter Island statue hands

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Göbekli Tepe Turkey Bird

This picture from Göbekli Tepe has been shown to us for five years now ! When are they going to dig up the rest of the carvings on the stone ??

Originally posted by masta12d
reply to post by Byrd

 

Ah I agree not a camel

Elk. Look at the horns and the shoulder hump.

but I think I might have to disagree on it not being a harness. Whatever it is is clearly tied around the animal.

Not necessarily. It could be a smear of paint -- someone knocked against the painting or bumped the artist when they worked. They didn't have erasers back then.

You can see how it is drawn in a way that gives perspective and depth clearly showing it is lying on top of the animal and held fast by a ridge or bump on its back.

Elk have a large humped shoulder (see Wikipedia picture at this link)

You can also see a not tied right where the hip and hind leg meet with his stomach.

The size of the horns indicate a female elk, and that spot is right where the udder (mammary gland) of female elks are located. It's about the size of the mammary glands when a female elk is nursing.

And I'll admit, they are one of the last creatures I'd want to domesticate because they are way to skittish.

Exactly. Plus the European elk are large and have a nasty temper.

And well, they could have quite possibly tried to domestic a Rhino and accidentally killed their artist which is why the quality seems to change lol.

There are multiple artists, and possibly over several generations.

They could and likely were way more in touch with earth than us and for all I know the Elk might have wandered right up to a human out of curiosity. And could have been hand fed by the people also...who knows.

Unlikely, given the number of elk that they killed.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Extralien

 

Talking about similarities?

Göbekli Tepe Turkey statue hands

You don't suppose that the H at the bottom has anything to do with...

Puma Punku??

reply to post by Extralien



Always a pleasure to have a grown-up discussion about something we might never get to understand or solve...

I have often wondered whether some of the more ancient civilisations were not perhaps far more advanced than what we are today (relatively speaking).

According to the Out of Africa Theory the people that painted on the walls in the cave would have passed through what we is now Egypt.... So if the ancient Egyptians are older that we think, it could explain a few things in the cave....


Now.... I would like to make it very clear that I have exercised enormous restraint and I have not attempted to alter this picture..... But I'm sure you have already thought about it...... Could this have been a warning from the ancients....

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Extralien

 

Göbekli Tepe Turkey statue hands

Every time I look at these paintings, I'm amazed at what I find..

I was looking for something related to another item previously posted, but again, my attention was drawn to something else.

And, well,.. umm.. how do I put this?
Is this a mistake by the artist?
Was it intentional? If so, is it a plan for a future development.. or did these objects exist way back then and we have deliberately covered up the true dates or have the objects been butchered by other later people and made to look like they created them...

I'm going to let you make your own minds up.. but something is not right.. there are just WAY too many coincidences in all of this to be anything else ..

Remember the map of Europe/Africa and Egypt which i posted earlier.. ?
Well, here is Egypt from Google earth..


Here we get a little bit closer and can see the rivers in more detail.. top left you can see a river snaking its way to the centre of the picture and towards Mommey.. there is another river just to its right doing the same journey..
That river comes from the direction of Banha.
Also take note of how the Nile comes down and curves its way to the left.


Then we zoom in a lot more and we find...


Now.. if we take a crop of that particular area of the Nile from the "Egypt map" of the paintings... we get this..


I'm going to have to rotate this a little bit so you cansee it more clearly and how it aligns.. We have to remember artistic errors due to information and/or not copying from a map.. but something stands out from all of that..Can you see it?




Three 'dots'....

Three pyramids.. two in alignment..one slighlty off..

The only problem with the three dots on the cave painting is that they are the wrong way round..

What exactly are we seeing here?

Originally posted by Extralien
Every time I look at these paintings, I'm amazed at what I find..

I was looking for something related to another item previously posted, but again, my attention was drawn to something else.

And, well,.. umm.. how do I put this?
Is this a mistake by the artist?
Was it intentional?

No, not a mistake.

No, not intentional.

The path of the Nile river today is not the same as it was a thousand years ago or 10,000 years ago or 20,000 years ago.

Geology and geography changes. The coastlines of the world that you compared to the cave paintings are NOT what they looked like at the time of the paintings (there was more exposed coastline, for one thing.) Today's river is shaped by the government's use of dams and levees and constructed areas that ensure the Nile doesn't suddenly change course and begin flowing through Cairo or other areas that are currently inhabited.

Originally posted by where2oceansmeet
I have often wondered whether some of the more ancient civilisations were not perhaps far more advanced than what we are today (relatively speaking).

In order to develop beyond today's civilization, you first have to develop to the level of today's civilization... which is based on civilizations of earlier times. Each of those leaves big marks on the land (where they grow food for their people, domesticate animals and plants, mine the land for resources, and so forth.

According to the Out of Africa Theory the people that painted on the walls in the cave would have passed through what we is now Egypt.... So if the ancient Egyptians are older that we think, it could explain a few things in the cave....

No, actually it doesn't.

Up until about 15,000 years ago, there were few permanent settlements that had more than 200 people in it. Most humans were nomadic (it was easier to live off the land and move and follow the game, as North American Indians did.) So think of the humans as being more like the Plains Indians than civilizations like the Egyptians that built the pyramids.

A culture like that can become widespread, BUT... they use the symbols common to their area. Northern Europe, for example, has no pictures of zebras or giraffes or cheetahs. Africa and Egypt have no pictures of the giant Northern Elk, reindeer, or cave bears. People use and depict the symbols that are important to them (and as an example, you probably don't have any images of Agassu and pictures of crabs around unless you're very involved with the Vaudon religion.)

It's difficult for nomadic people to develop a lot of technology because some things mean you need to be near certain resources or be able to carry certain things with you (blacksmithing tools, for instance. They were never developed by Native Americans (Indians of the plains never learned to work metal (though the mound builders who lived in permanent cities did.))


Now.... I would like to make it very clear that I have exercised enormous restraint and I have not attempted to alter this picture..... But I'm sure you have already thought about it...... Could this have been a warning from the ancients....

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Extralien

 

Göbekli Tepe Turkey statue hands