Thoughts from a former Christian

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posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Originally posted by sacgamer25
The true meaning of the bible has been destroyed by the Christian church, in my opinion.

Well said...


But don't forget that the church has been infiltrated and by WHOM...


"Few people in the world today are aware of just how much Satan has infiltrated organized religion... "

"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati... "

"The Vatican has infiltrated, or neutered and spayed, virtually every denomination and organization in Christendom... "

www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by ddaniel
 


Ever watch "I, Pet Goat II"?

This is just another ZEITGEIST Trojan horse...


HELIO-PHANT

HELIOS- is the SUN god, he is Apollo, the god of LIGHT or LUCIFER

HELIOS PANOPTES- the "ALL SEEING".

PHANT is from the word PHANEIN which means TO SHOW, to REVEAL, MAKE KNOWN something which is SECRET.

This is just another ZEITGEIST Trojan horse (TRUTH seasoned with rat poison)
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Covered with NWO fingerprints...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Definitely an ILLUMINATI production
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by ddaniel
 


I respect all peoples beliefs as long as those beliefs do not hurt others or are forced upon others. Still...I have a question for you.

Why is it that you believe that people are helpless? Why is it you believe people need the help of a GOD or JESUS to be able to live their lives?

The teachings of Jesus are obvious. These are things that even the most uneducated young child understands...that being...they want to be treated in a way that is good and kind and that it is reasonable to understand that if they treat others that way then those others would most likely be inclined to treat them the same.

These ideas are NOT Rocket Science. They are self evident. A GOD or Son of GOD is not needed for any person to understand these ideas and concepts. They are not concepts that are so complex as to need a teacher to educate others in their value.

People have been on Earth for a Long Time. Humanity in one form or another has been in existence for over 5 Million Years. Modern Man which includes Homo Sapiens and Cro-Magnon have been around for 40 to 60 thousand years.

Cro-Magnons were almost identical to Homo Sapiens and even had a larger brain. Homo Sapiens which we are...are the children of Cro-Magnon. 40 to 60 Thousand years ago our ancestors buried their dead. They placed flowers on the graves. They had a system of community, a standard of ethics and religion. They loved their children and families and protected their fellow Man.

The ONLY thing that separated us from them is technology. In fact you could not tell the difference between them and us in a Police Lineup. They knew only too well the importance of Loving their Fellow Man...Protecting their Families...Respect of Nature and all the things that you and I understand and realize with the exception of the Technology that we understand because of Eons of experimentation of Science and Math.

My point is I find it unhealthy for people such as ourselves living in the Modern World to think that we are so inept as to need a GOD to make us understand concepts that a Child 60,000 Years Ago understood was right or wrong.

When and where did we become so needy?

Split Infinity



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by resoe26
 


Originally posted by resoe26
But how do you accept Salvation?
What does it mean to be right with God in your eyes?

We don’t “accept” Jesus, He redeems and then accepts us.

This is what religion will NEVER tell you, the TRUTH!


As we cannot physically see the wind but see the evidences of its presence as it blows by "so is everyone that is born of the Spirit". True believing is an evidence that a person has been born again. A person does not become born again because they believe -- they believe because they have been born again. Our salvation is totally and completely the work of God and a product of His Will, not our own will -- as John 1:13 declared. Faith (believing) is the evidence that God has done a work in your heart. In our own will, we would never choose to seek God as Romans 3:10,11 says,

Salvation always begins with God's action (which we cannot physically see) and always results in our action, as we act upon faith and begin to seek to know and grow in a relationship with the Lord. To say that a person must "accept" Christ in order to be saved is leading people to trust in their own work of accepting and believing. The Bible is very clear that trusting in our own work in any way, can never lead to salvation LINK

Religion PRETENDS to be the way and the truth but Jesus Christ said, ‘I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man can come unto the Father but by Me.’

The BLOOD of Jesus, HIS blood and His blood ALONE can redeem and save you.


“Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” Jesus

What REALLY happens when a person is born again?

How One Is Saved



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by resoe26
 


Originally posted by resoe26
I'm wondering if learning about occult matters is a bad thing. Not performing them, but learning of them... I enjoy surfacing the mystery and researching...

But my major concerns in researching, always lead me to the occult and religion. ALWAYS.
Wish I could discover the secrets, but they are hidden quite well.

Learning to tell the difference between truth and lies is one of the most important things I have EVER learned in my life.

One of the best teachers on this subject is a man named Ian Clayton.

See this post here.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun
 


So Moses gets all pissed off and kills 3000 for what then? If it is not the guy in the sky then what is god where is heaven. Then 10 commandments were part of the mosiac law until Jesus came along so they were relevent.Jesus mentions the commandments and the greatest of these is love. They were not rules to get into heaven but to just live by for the Jews.You didn't explain what the 10 commandments were?
So if they were to be followed to get into heaven then Moses did a bang up job. What about god ordering Abraham to kill his son wouldn't he say wait a minute I am not suppose to kill. Dont tell me he was getting his faith tested that doesnt fly. If you say you are not brainwashed to think the bible is not a holy book then what is it?Why dont believe in the Quran or Torah?The muslims believe the Quran has no errors surely it was inspired by god so it must be true as well. You say the bible contains no errors( others would disagree) and it was written by 40 men then where did these guys get this information since men are imperfect.It would have to come from an outside source a god/goddess.Some entity that is above the earth and where above the earth with the vastness of space is anyones guess.

This is why we have thousands of christian sects the bible is so clear that everyone can get the same message so everyone can get to this so called heaven or paradise or what ever after life. Your interpretation is different than mine and thousands of others. Why dont Jews believe Jesus was the messiah?Maybe he was just among the many guys name Jesus back then. Or maybe it is just a myth that has been repeated over and over again. Mythra,Dionysus,Krishna there are many more

As Jim Jefferies a comedian who summed up the bible in one page Try not to be C**t



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by ddaniel
Please read the entirety of this post before replying, ill try to keep it as short as possible. Despite the message, I am not trying to offend anyone.

I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian home. Growing up, my idea of God was shaped around this mindset, and I tried very hard to adhere to the lifestyle my church promoted. I did everything you were 'supposed' to do - quiet times, prayers, etc, but never seemed to feel the 'personal relationship' with Christ I was so often told about.

:

In the true spirit of Christ, I wish you all a Merry Christmas.



The problem is the modern "fundamentalist Christian" theology is a bunch of lies......xmas, valentines day, and easter. That is all you need to know. It is nothing but ancient babylon with its sun pillars (steeples), graven images (tammuz's cross), and rothschild (scofield) bibles. The elevated clergy are just wolves in sheep's clothing. Fundies like to point at the catholic pagans (I did) while the whole time they are pagan lite.

God doesn't much care what variety of pagan you are...... they are ALL an abomination.

We are commanded to come out of her (Rev 18:4).

Once you do.....the truth will MAKE you free.

Amen and amen.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by DissentFromDayOne
 


"...xmas, valentines day, and easter..." is NOT Christian Theology. That's what Christians would call "Churchianity" Most well versed Christians know that these are all pagan installed holidays....



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:50 PM
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Great thread OP. I had a kinda similar experience when I was younger. My family used to go to church every Sunday and as I hit my teens, I started to hate it more and more. It seemed like the majority of the people there were kinda just there to be seen. When we would walk into church people would stare at us until we all sat down. The feeling I got was that these people felt that they could be a-holes throughout the week and then come to church for an hour or so and all would be forgiven. I knew some of the people there so can say that is how they were outside of the church.

I hated it and eventually told my mum and dad that I wasn't go to it anymore.

When you spoke of the big church service that you went to, it also reminded me of a big event that I went to with my friend. He is a christian and kinda begged me to go with him to this event which had bands as well as some famous pastor etc. Anyway, long story short - I was expecting to hear the pastor talk to the people there about different things but what 90% of his speech was about was trying to convert people. There was barely any talk about how things were going with the world yadda yadda yadda. It was all geared towards "bring more people into the flock and where's your credit card". The whole thing made me sick.

I've since been to another church service as my friend was playing in a band and I was filming him and once again the message was crack out your credit card/cash/cheque etc etc. It was a business and in my mind had completely lost the plot.

The last point that I will make is that I once asked my friend if he could ever be a christian without having the bible and he couldn't. In his mind, it's the word of god and can't be wrong. It makes me sad but I respect his views and we just agree to disagree on some things!



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by celticdog
reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun
 


So Moses gets all pissed off and kills 3000 for what then? If it is not the guy in the sky then what is god where is heaven. Then 10 commandments were part of the mosiac law until Jesus came along so they were relevent.Jesus mentions the commandments and the greatest of these is love. They were not rules to get into heaven but to just live by for the Jews.You didn't explain what the 10 commandments were?
So if they were to be followed to get into heaven then Moses did a bang up job. What about god ordering Abraham to kill his son wouldn't he say wait a minute I am not suppose to kill. Dont tell me he was getting his faith tested that doesnt fly. If you say you are not brainwashed to think the bible is not a holy book then what is it?Why dont believe in the Quran or Torah?The muslims believe the Quran has no errors surely it was inspired by god so it must be true as well. You say the bible contains no errors( others would disagree) and it was written by 40 men then where did these guys get this information since men are imperfect.It would have to come from an outside source a god/goddess.Some entity that is above the earth and where above the earth with the vastness of space is anyones guess.

This is why we have thousands of christian sects the bible is so clear that everyone can get the same message so everyone can get to this so called heaven or paradise or what ever after life. Your interpretation is different than mine and thousands of others. Why dont Jews believe Jesus was the messiah?Maybe he was just among the many guys name Jesus back then. Or maybe it is just a myth that has been repeated over and over again. Mythra,Dionysus,Krishna there are many more

As Jim Jefferies a comedian who summed up the bible in one page Try not to be C**t


It's sad when you don't even know what you are saying...I can dissect each claim you make here, but that would take too long.

As a basic answer to your question, God is the giver of life, thus He has the full authority and right to take it away. Secondly, none of us escapes death. We're all going to die some day. Even you my friend. And the entire presupposition to your claims about God being immoral or unjust is actually quite interesting because you are using the very God given foundation of objective moral values and duties as your standard to judge against the actions of God in the Bible. Ironic isn't it?

The Quran has inconsistencies in it that the Bible does not. The Torah are the first five books of the Bible. So clearly you're not educated enough to make these attacks on me. Not to mention you quote comedians as a form of wisdom...

Yes there are thousands of Christian denominations. Most of them have the central doctrine in place. However, the differences lie in irrelevant issues that created division over many years. This again reflects what the Bible tells us is the sin nature of humanity.

And yes the Bible was inspired by God. That is an entity that is outside space and time all together. How do we know this? Prophecy. The Bible has been 100% in the fulfillment of its prophecies. Many are yet unfulfilled. It's the only text that can be shown where we know when a prophecy was written, and then in history can show when it was fulfilled. Study of prophecies of Daniel and you will be alarmed at the level of accuracy. Study other prophecies as well...they tend to fit the current world climate to a T. The Bible talks about a One World Government in the end times.

There are Jews who accept Jesus as the Messiah. Many did reject Him during His walk, only because they wanted someone to take them off the oppression of Rome they were under. And you surely aren't going to bust out the Zeigeist claims (Christ Conspiracy) nonsense. (Mythra-Dionysus etc). That stuff has been debunked so many times it pains me to see someone still use that argument.

Look, I'm not here to convince you of my belief or anything like that. But I would recommend taking a real good hard look at what the Bible actually teaches and seek sound academic inquiry regarding Scripture as a whole and Christian Theology as a whole. Once you grasp it, you can reject it.

I don't know if you're an atheist or agnostic or what, but my conclusions for the inerrancy of the Bible as well as the reality that we live in a universe that was created by the God of the Bible stems from reasonable, logical, and rational investigations of these topics. It's not blind faith. In fact, I could argue that your arguments are built on blind faith, especially according to the claims you've been making.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun
 


Although I respect your right to believe what you will...I believe you have it backwards. The burden of proof does not lie with those who doubt your religious beliefs...it lies with those who believe as you do.

You state that it is not Blind Faith and that your belief in Christianity and a GOD who you state is the creator of Life and the Universe as well as this GOD has the right to give life or take it away....but you have absolutely ZERO PROOF to back up your statements and thus is this not Blind Faith after all?

You cannot use the Bible as a source of Proof as the Bible itself cannot be definitively proven. So believe what you will as is your right but I would think that before you state you have proof you should really think about what you label as proof.

Split Infinity



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by ddaniel
I simply could no longer accept the 'blind faith' that is so strongly admired by mainstream Christianity. The more I thought about it, the more Christian 'faith' seemed to be nothing but blind ignorance surrounded by attractive words and emotional music. Faith is inherently a personal thing, so how can adopting the views of others (the Church) equate to being a 'faithful servant of God'? After all, if we all possess the Holy Spirit, isn't the best way to discover God's heart to look within?


Faith doesn't have to be blind. I see miracles happen routinely, prayers answered.
I see the truth of what is written manifest in reality.
Before I saw it for myself, and felt it for myself, my faith had evidence based on hearing the testimonies of others.



How is belief that the Bible (or any other Holy book) is the 'perfect Word of God' anything other than idolatry?


Idolatry is defined as putting your ultimate trust in anything other than God.

God is truth, and every word God speaks to someone is truth. God's word given to someone, then written down, is still truth.
Trusting in God's word would be the very opposite of idolatry. It's the only thing that is true.

God's word spoken to us is always perfect. He will never tell a lie. He will never speak wrongly. He will never be in error.



Despite my division with organized religion, I still admire Jesus in a way I cannot express. What's funny is, I never really felt I 'knew' Jesus until I stepped away from the Christian indoctrination I was raised to adhere to. To me, the beautiful thing about Jesus was his message of love. When asked what the greatest commandments were, Jesus replied: love The Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself.


He told you to be the embodiment of perfect love, just like the Father is.

It's not something you can do on your own, you need to surrender your will to His will, and be led by the Holy Spirit in your life.




But this is all fine. After all, we are helpless until Jesus comes back.


We aren't helpless. And many churches rightly don't teach that.
A particular church or denomination is not your teacher - Christ is your teacher.

I think part of your hearts cry against this teaching is a legitimate recognization that God doesn't want us living like defeated sinners, but wants us to start retaking territory as conquering saints.

Look into Bill Johnson's church in redding for an expansion of a church that is on the spiritual forefront of revival in the US. This is how God's Kingdom gets expanded, by raising up people who are led by the Holy Spirit to operate in truth, love, and power.

Todd White is another source you may like because he is not only someone who operates in Kingdom power as part of a Kingdom lifestyle, but he has specifically spoken against the trend of many churches to bunker down with a defeatest mindset and just wait for the return of Christ, when Christ called us to be out there expanding the Kingdom in His name.

You need to be aware though, that doing what Jesus called us to do is only possible through the power of His Spirit working in and through us,
A lot of churches or non-christian groups get into error when they think they will just take Jesus's message and then go out and try to accomplish it in their own strength, with their own ideas. Not going to get you very far, and might even do a lot of damage. We are called to do it God's way, through His Spirit.



I used to think it was enough for me to follow my own heart and discover my own truth, but I now see this was just me being a coward.


There's only one truth, God's truth.
There's only one truth. The narrow way.

If you search for your own truth (compiling your own invention of what you claim is truth), and put that on a pedestal, and depend on that truth to be your answer and guide, then you are in idolatry.

That path leads to destruction. Everyone doing what is right in their own sight is what leads to all the ills of the world in the first place.

The only way to have a righteous civilization is to have a society of people who are submitted to the will of God, through His Spirit leading them, so that they can be guided to do what is right and avoid what is wrong.
That is what the bible calls for us to do, being reborn as people led by the Spirit and not our own impulses and thoughts.
edit on 27-12-2012 by Rise27 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun
 


Although I respect your right to believe what you will...I believe you have it backwards. The burden of proof does not lie with those who doubt your religious beliefs...it lies with those who believe as you do.

You state that it is not Blind Faith and that your belief in Christianity and a GOD who you state is the creator of Life and the Universe as well as this GOD has the right to give life or take it away....but you have absolutely ZERO PROOF to back up your statements and thus is this not Blind Faith after all?

You cannot use the Bible as a source of Proof as the Bible itself cannot be definitively proven. So believe what you will as is your right but I would think that before you state you have proof you should really think about what you label as proof.

Split Infinity



The problem with your assertion is that "proof" and "evidence" in these matters are not subjective to materialism. In other words, how do you measure love, emotional pain, hate, jealousy, compassion, etc etc etc? You can't. So what we all end up doing is render these things through our own philosophical points of view.

If you can "prove that God exists" then we wouldn't be having this conversation would we? In fact, we wouldn't even really have a choice. So we do the best we can with what we have. Reason, rationality, logic. These things are reliable to the best of our ability.

It makes sense to me that there is a God because looking at both the ontological and teleological constructs of our universe suggests that there is. I can elaborate on these things if you'd like.

I would also argue that objective moral values are a huge reason why I believe there is a God.

Think of it this way. We as humanity have used our intellect to come to a place in history today where we have discovered the constants and quantities, the boundaries and rules, laws etc of this universe. The fact that it takes a rational mind to discover such things, AND the fact that these things are understandable to a rational mind suggests to me that there is a level of rationality, logic, truth that extends beyond our understanding. Since it takes a mind to grasp these things, isn't it then not too much of a stretch to suggest that there is a mind who authored it?



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by ddaniel
 


ddaniel: your point of view is entirely worldly. Nothing on it, God is nowhere to be found around here. However, you believe what you are taught through media, rather than your parents. You feel more comfortable with the world around you than they do. That is my suggestion.
Since Christianity is nothing more than a political organization of generalized people rather than a relationship with Jesus, no wonder. Christianity per se falls short. I myself am not comfortable at any church right now. However, I have not dumped Christ. That is the difference. Your attachment of faith to church is purely cultural. You had a cultural upbringing. This is why I was very easy on my boys with the awana and pioneer club thing. They were taught differently and as a result see the value and magic of Jesus.
If you lost the love of your life or saw your entire family burn up in a car wreck believe me, the world would look different!



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun
 


I see absolutely zero lines of logic in your statement that since we have used our minds to quantify and calculate our Universal Reality then that lends to the assumption that there must be a mind that created it.

First of all we are nowhere even close to understanding our Universe or it's laws. Secondly...just because we exist is not proof that a GOD must exist. This does not mean that a GOD does not exist but it lends no proof or even an association that one does.

In fact...the probability as of now given what we can prove that a GOD exists is lower than the probability that a GOD does not exist. Still since we are part of a Multiversal System...any Infinite System has a 100% Probability that all possibilities must exist. This is of course if we do indeed live in a Multiverse.

At issue is what can or cannot be said is proof or not. As of now there is zero proof that would show the existence of any GOD.

Split Infinity



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by Destiny10
 


Another thing about this post and many others like it. ATS is a site devoted to thinking outside the box. If you are a person of faith by nature you are at odds with science and paganism. Too bad about science because many good things have been discovered solved and etc. However, I can tell you as the child of a physicist that scientists are no different than any other person. They have prejudice and an agenda. Their own opinion does affect outcome and many of these people are arrogant!
Who says that evolution is absolutely right and no agenda is attached to it? How do you know the Garden of Eden isn't symbolically true? My theory is that many people want to kill the Jews because they are trying to kill the witness so to speak. I suggest that you read Genesis again with a new eye, especially the part where the snake assures Eve that she will never die. If so she is alive and well on earth today.
Also why not that Jewish people bred with the angels that fell and that is why so many of them have evil in their families? Thus the Illuminati and people who just seem to know more? I could say more right now, but I won't. It is dangerous. However, my suggestion to the naive who just believe the media...guess again. There is a lot to be lost and gained with God. He is dangerous, he is fantastic, he is wonderful, he is misunderstood. But one thing he is not is the Church!



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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"Christianity" is a template of Capitalism invented by the Romans.

"Jesus Christ" as popularly portrayed - never existed.

Read some ancient history. It was all reworked by the Romans into Catholicism as a control mechanism.

It's all false, it's all BS.

Ever wonder why TPTB fear Jews and Masons? What could these people have in common?

This: Both groups know that Christianity is entirely FALSE.

Bunch of made up BS.

Read for yourself. It's all out there for anyone to see. Now. Used to be kept hush hush and the aforementioned groups were on the down low - because they'd be killed for letting the truth out. TPTB don't want that out because people would be EXTREMELY ANGRY that they've been LIED TO - riots would ensue, and they'd lose power.

To this day - the Catholic Church guards all their secrets carefully. Every wonder why they won't let anyone study the various artifacts, 'scrolls', in their possession? Because THE TRUTH is in there. And they can't let that out.

But today - thanks to the net and more widespread publishing of 'forbidden knowledge' - anyone who wants to know the truth - can find it.

Read and see for yourself.

The bottom line is "Jesus Christ" never existed. That's the 'shocker'. I'll give you a brief run down, to get you started (my Jew friend told me, and also those in the Eastern Star (connected to Masonic Temple).

"Jesus Christ" is a title not a name. Like Prime Minister or Shift Manager at Taco Bell. Hundreds, thousands, of people claimed to be this "leader of Jews". You cannot pin point one person.

Guy who died on the cross? Jesus Barabbas. Murderer, thief, political operative hoping to be King. Other "Jesuses"? The closest to mythology would be a simple Priest, James. He was a boring guy with no Super Powers. Resurrection? = Egyptian burial rites.

What you know of is BS that the Romans / Catholics concocted to scare you. It's all totally twisted BS. We could do it now too -

Our God is a Black Unisex Human who was a Great Leader who was 7 foot tall and could sing like an angel and fly! Also, as a Female - birthed us all! This could be - cramming together Obama, Michael Jordan, Beyonce (for birthing) and Michael Jackson (flying = Jackson as Peter Pan, shove in Mysticism that way.) Does such a creature exist today? NO. All of these people are just - regular boring humans. You can shove 'em all into one though, and then give it Mystical Powers.

And that's exactly what the Roman Catholic Church did. Took simple Jewish history, re wrote most of it, twisted it, laid on Pagan and Greek Mysticism, and Voila! - there's your "Christianity" for you.

It's all FALSE.

Read. Don't take my word for it.

BTW - TPTB KNOW all this. They KNOW that religion is FALSE. Anyone who passes through an Ancient History class at the local Community College knows it, these people are educated, they know it too. Why do you think that *they* don't practice what they preach? Because they KNOW it's all FALSE.

They claim to be Anti Gay - because The Bible says. But then they're caught in a toilet with a man. Thou shalt not commit adultery! And they all cheat on their spouses. Pro Life! But then they start up a bunch of wars.

What could explain that? This: They KNOW "religion" is FALSE. And it's nothing but BS to scare the Sheep into behaving and working FOR THEM.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun
 


I see absolutely zero lines of logic in your statement that since we have used our minds to quantify and calculate our Universal Reality then that lends to the assumption that there must be a mind that created it.

First of all we are nowhere even close to understanding our Universe or it's laws. Secondly...just because we exist is not proof that a GOD must exist. This does not mean that a GOD does not exist but it lends no proof or even an association that one does.

In fact...the probability as of now given what we can prove that a GOD exists is lower than the probability that a GOD does not exist. Still since we are part of a Multiversal System...any Infinite System has a 100% Probability that all possibilities must exist. This is of course if we do indeed live in a Multiverse.

At issue is what can or cannot be said is proof or not. As of now there is zero proof that would show the existence of any GOD.

Split Infinity



How do you give a probability to something you cannot measure? In other words, what would quantify the existence of God in a measurable sense? The Multiverse would not negate the existence of God whatsoever. This is a fallacy. Even if a multiverse were true, not only will it not eliminate the possibility of God's existence, but it would also still have to answer how the universe came into being. An infinite past is simply not coherent to reality. Too many logical fallacies arise in it's rendering.

On the other hand, if you are implying that the multiverse eliminates God because it in itself contains all possible universes at a 100% probability rate, well then you are simply redefining God. God in the Biblical sense is eternal, everlasting, infinite etc. These are characteristics that you are attributing to the multiverse itself. This would either make your position that of monism, or some sort of pantheistic worldview.

In other words, you are still making a metaphysical appeal. It doesn't flow out of the physics of the universe we experience. You have to appeal to something beyond the physics we use.

The multiverse also falls under the gamblers fallacy.

Let's say you flip a coin 100 thousand times and you get heads 100 thousand times in a row. Someone committing the gamblers fallacy would speculate that maybe there's an infinite number of quarters, and if you get enough people flipping them 100 thousand consecutive times, one by pure chance would land heads 100 thousand times in a row, therefore the coin is fair. Now before you flip the coin again, wouldn't it be a good idea to examine the coin? Apply it to the universe. Like you said, we certainly don't even come close to the fullness of knowledge of the workings of OUR universe. But that's precisely my point. Even though we don't know the entirety of it's workings, the more we do learn, the more we see design. Now you're suggesting that this design is simply an act of chance...or simply some sort of illusion. I would say that logic would suggest that it is not an illusion, or by chance.



edit on 27-12-2012 by FaceLikeTheSun because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun
 


You didn't understand. If we live in a Multiverse...which is an Infinite System...this means there is a 100% Probability that there is a Divergent Universal Reality where GOD must exist...as well as a 100% Probability a Divergent Universal Reality exists that has no GOD.

In a Infinite System all possibilities MUST exist. This is in fact a reality of an Infinite System.

Split Infinity

ps. This is the MATH talking not guesswork or theory.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by ddaniel
 


I respect all peoples beliefs as long as those beliefs do not hurt others or are forced upon others. Still...I have a question for you.

Why is it that you believe that people are helpless? Why is it you believe people need the help of a GOD or JESUS to be able to live their lives?

The teachings of Jesus are obvious. These are things that even the most uneducated young child understands...that being...they want to be treated in a way that is good and kind and that it is reasonable to understand that if they treat others that way then those others would most likely be inclined to treat them the same.

...



Did you actually read any of my posts?

If so, I must not be doing a very good job of getting my point across...





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