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The Smoking Gun That THEY WANT YOU TO KEEP! The REAL Story.

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posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 04:45 PM
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Heff,

Great thread as usual!


I would like to add a little personal account I had with SSRI's(Wellbutrin specifically) I had when I was younger, 18-19.

I lost a close family member and became severely depressed, it was the first person really close to me I'd ever lost unexpectedly. After a couple of months of me living doing nothing, not working, cleaning etc, really barely eating, but drinking heavily, my mom decided I should see a doctor. The doc decided quite quickly I should try a new medication called Wellbutrin. I was to come back after 10 days(the period it takes for the medication to take full effect) for a reevaluation of my condition. At my next visit I was feeling better, but still no normal. The doc decided to up my dosage and see me again in 45 days. During the next week I felt great and I thought "Hey! This is actually working! It's really helping me a lot." I decided to continue taking it, since I was originally considering asking for an alternative. Well, the following two weeks I was moody, distressed and agitated. Some days I felt fine and others I just wanted to destroy stuff over nothing more than a minor frustration. It all came to a head midway thru the third week. I literally destroyed everything I owned including my car and house. I smashed things, threw things, punched and kicked holes in the walls and doors broke out windows and took a baseball bat and gasoline and matches to my car. The very last thing I remember clearly was sitting in a corner for what felt like an eternity, actually 3 days, with the barrel of a .38 pressed to my temple fighting the urge to end it all. My mom who hadn't heard from me in a few days became worried and called 911 to have the police come check on me. I ended up being taken to the emergency room with a grazing gunshot wound to the top of my head and a ruptured ear drum. I had apparently decided to go thru with ending it, then for some unknown reason, maybe a brief moment of lucidity, changed my mind right as I squeezed the trigger and moved the barrel just enough to cause the minor injuries and knock myself unconscious from the concussion against my head.

It could have easily been much worse. I very easily could have seriously hurt or killed myself or others during this time. I even had thoughts of doing some very bad things to other people. After my stint in the hospital in a medically induced coma during detox, I looked back glad I survived and realized just how dangerous psychiatric meds can be, not only to the patient, but to anyone who comes in contact with them when they split.

Since then I have never taken any sort of psychiatric medication, and never will again. I now rely on support and communication as well as natural remedies such as diet, herbs and vitamins and meditation. I also came out of it realizing things can always be worse than what they are and haven't been depressed in over a decade. Not to say I haven't been down in the dumps or miserably sad, but I haven't been to the point where I was non-fuctional or suicidal. Mostly I look back thankful I had a second chance to enjoy life.

I can easily see someone on these kinds of medications having a break and going on a violent rampage. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't been through it, either themselves or someone they know, and haven't looked at the evidence thoroughly and with an unbiased mind.




posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by LarryLove


To reiterate, neither you nor Fox or the original article has put forward any evidence to say Lanza wasn't being medicated.


As much as I am against the big pharma drug pushers and believe we have an epidemic when it comes to behavior modified by certain meds, I think the burden of proof lies on the OP and those who assert he was on medication.

I should make it clear that I'm with the OP on this one, but now that I know they are suggesting he was not on meds, then I'm a little apprehensive to blame them for Lanza's behavior. It would be safe to assume he was on meds given his stated disorder, but I also don't think that is enough evidence to prove either way that he was or wasn't on them.

All I'm saying is, I don't think its fair to require someone else to prove their stance when you can't prove yours either. It's all conjecture at this point.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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to the op- Hefficide- I agree with you 100%. SSRI's side effects have been proven to cause homicide and suicide in a very small percentage of users(otherwise, they would not have been forced to add disclaimers in the adverts). what that number actually is, is irrelevant IMO. It has happened enough that the links between the drugs and violence can not logically be argued. People will still argue though, because emotions are hard to overcome. And keep in mind that 90-99% of users of these drugs receive some benefits as Big Pharma intended. They don't want their drug/lifeline/savior changed or taken of the market. So they will argue.

As a society, decisions about the care and treatment of mental patients, and depression need to be made. If drugs like SSRI's are the best course of treatment, then we need to live with the side effects, in all their hideous forms. If the side effects are not worth it, then we need to demand that the medical industry and Big Pharma come up with better options. Write you congressmen or women. Protest. write e-mails. start a petition to limit Big Pharma's ability to dictate policy with cash. Demand that the safety of kids, parents, and neighbors should come before the bottom line of a fortune 500 company.

Whether or not Adam Lanza was taking an SSRI is really irrelevant. Fact is, he was diagnosed with Aspergers so he is considered to be Autistic to some degree. This is one of the target groups of Big Pharma. IF A.L. wasn't taking them, then most of the other SPREE killers were.

I do believe that though SSRI's are most likely the biggest factor in these sort of psychotic break/ spree killings, they are not the only factor. Some of the blame could be pointed at Society, Video games, Bad Parenting, whatever you can come up with. but at the end of the day, SSRI's make people not care. it is what they are designed to do, after all. So if we are looking for the BIGGEST reason, the most likely cause, then I think SSRI's are it.

Just a thought about some of the interesting responses in this thread. We have proven the existence of paid Trolls who reside on ATS boards to discredit and cause dissent in order to mislead and distract. I would just like to remind people here of that. The more posts trying to do just that makes the argument that much more believable, at least to me.

Peace



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by Hefficide
 

That makes a lot of sense. I bet she threatened him like that all the time, not just before the shooting. I bet she always belittled and demeaned him to the bursting point.

The straw.



You don't know that. I get so tired of hearing people bashing parents when they don't know any of the facts.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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Just in summary. My intent is not to judge or demonize psychiatry, patients, doctors, parents, or even society. It is merely to point out that a corrupt system seems to have developed where very dangerous medications, ones which happen to profit the largest lobbying interest in the nation, have become staples in the daily lives of many, many people. These medications can be beneficial to many people, and can also have little to no ill effect on many others. But some people do have massive, negative reactions to this medications - some to the point of experiencing psychotic breaks. Some of THOSE people end up acting out either by self-harm or violent outbursts.

One poster, earlier on, questioned why doctors would prescribe such medications if they knew the dangers ( paraphrasing ) - the answer is that they don't realize the dangers. Doctors are not pharmacists. They tend to prescribe based upon what they learned as interns and then based upon what their drug reps bring them and tell them about.

Oh, and doctors get paid vacations from drug companies to attend "training seminars" - sponsored by pharma companies when they roll out a new line or product. Obviously this doesn't apply to every new med. Just the ones that are going to be retail giants.

So... Doc Smith sees medication X prescribed pretty often, by his attendings, during his internship quite often. Once he gets into practice he continues doing so. His drug rep shows up one day and says "Oh, we've got a new, improved version of the medication you seem to like so much. In fact, I've got a few cases of free samples right here!"

Now Doc Smith has gone from medication X to medication Y as his staple.

It's really that simple.

~Heff



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Pffffft! SSRI's keep people from doing things like this. I know its hard to believe, but yes folks, people some times are just crazy for no apparent reason at all. I know its a bitter pill to swallow, but the sooner you do, the better.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by ItCameFromOuterSpace
 


Awesome! Can you link me to the study that shows SSRI's do not have the potential for causing behavioral extremes? Specifically in young males? If so I'd appreciate it! Then I can learn, admit my mistake, and close this thread.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 





ust in summary. My intent is not to judge or demonize psychiatry, patients, doctors, parents, or even society. It is merely to point out that a corrupt system seems to have developed where very dangerous medications, ones which happen to profit the largest lobbying interest in the nation, have become staples in the daily lives of many, many people. These medications can be beneficial to many people, and can also have little to no ill effect on many others. But some people do have massive, negative reactions to this medications - some to the point of experiencing psychotic breaks. Some of THOSE people end up acting out either by self-harm or violent outbursts.


No you were specifically saying that the false flag theories are not true, and that the above explanation is the cause of the shooting.

Furthermore you base you entire thread on an assumption that has not been confirmed. And even if he was on those meds it doesn´t mean that they caused it. On basis of those fallacies alone you should close this thread.

The "smoking gun"? "the REAL story? That is extremely misleading when your whole premise is based on speculation.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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I have to admit Zoloft saved my life.

I know people around me can see a big difference.

Several factors play a roll how successful meds are.
1. You cant drink and smoke pot on them
2. You have to be med compliant take same time same dose everyday as prescribed
3. Be honest with your doctor....dont hide things....most want to help
4. Exercise and eat well. Dont go over 4-5 hrs without eating something nutritious and drink plenty of water.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by SPayne

No you were specifically saying that the false flag theories are not true, and that the above explanation is the cause of the shooting.


I never said any such thing. You are implying context where there is none and putting words in my mouth. What I said was that there is a common denominator that nobody seems to be discussing.


Originally posted by SPayne

Furthermore you base you entire thread on an assumption that has not been confirmed. And even if he was on those meds it doesn´t mean that they caused it. On basis of those fallacies alone you should close this thread.


My OP is sourced to multiple stories and published studies. There was no fallacy in it. If speculation were against the rules on ATS - ATS would not exist at all.


Originally posted by SPayne

The "smoking gun"? "the REAL story? That is extremely misleading when your whole premise is based on speculation.


Opinion, which you are entitled to. Others disagree. But then again. You and I keep going down this road, account after account, don't we?

Let's table your personal agenda if we are going to be honest. Shall we?



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


I am curious? Where is the information that links Adam Lanza to these drugs? Is there something besides a guess from a distant angry relative? Last I seen the Police said they had no evidence that he was being treated for anything. And if that distant relative was related by the husband who is on the line for about 3 million in alimony. Can you trust any thing they say.

I also called into question the idea he lived in the basement and had military and gun posters all over the walls. I showed a picture which had a beerpong poster with a sexy woman on it. He also did not dress Gothic like many people say. He actually looked geeky. He looked like a nerd. Looked like his mother dressed him and said button your shirt all the way.
edit on 26-12-2012 by JBA2848 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by JBA2848
 


The police have not released any details about their investigation yet. Fox news published a report saying that they found no prescriptions in their initial search of the home - but don't source this to anything other than inside information.

There is no real information yet.

What is published and sourceable is that Lanzas mother was seeking involuntary commitment for Adam and that a relative stated Adam had been on medication recently.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Now there is a big difference between making him move out on his own and having him committed. And to have him committed he would have to have some serious problems. What problem did he have? No one has came up with anything except aspergers. Oh and he did not like to be touched.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Heres a little info I think many will be surprised with.......


Although some adverse drug reactions (ADR) are not very serious, others cause the death, hospitalization, or serious injury of more than 2 million people in the United States each year, including more than 100,000 fatalities. In fact, adverse drug reactions are one of the leading causes of death in the United States.1 Most of the time, these dangerous events could and should have been avoided. Even the less drastic reactions, such as change in mood, loss of appetite, and nausea, may seriously diminish the quality of life.



Despite the fact that more adverse reactions occur in patients 60 or older, the odds of suffering an adverse drug reaction really begin to increase even before age 50. Almost half (49.5%) of Food and Drug Administration (FDA) reports of deaths from adverse drug reactions and 61% of hospitalizations from adverse drug reactions were in people younger than 60.2 Many physical changes that affect the way the body can handle drugs actually begin in people in their thirties, but the increased prescribing of drugs does not begin for most people until they enter their fifties. By then, the amount of prescription drug use starts increasing significantly, and therefore the odds of having an adverse drug reaction also increase. The risk of an adverse drug reaction is about 33% higher in people aged 50 to 59 than it is in people aged 40 to 49.3, 4





Adverse Reactions to Drugs Cause Hospitalization of 1.5 Million Americans Each Year
Adverse Reactions as a Major Cause of Emergency Room Visits, 28%
Adverse Reactions Occur During Hospitalization to 770,000 People a Year
Dangerous Prescribing Outside the Hospital for 6.6 Million Older Adults a Year


Adverse Drug Reactions

And this is just the Adverse Reactions end of the spectrum. I sometimes feel Humans are guinea pigs, for big Pharma.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 





I never said any such thing. You are implying context where there is none and putting words in my mouth. What I said was that there is a common denominator that nobody seems to be discussing.


You were not connecting the shooting to the assumed meds use, and not distancing the other ,false flag, theories from the event?




My OP is sourced to multiple stories and published studies. There was no fallacy in it. If speculation were against the rules on ATS - ATS would not exist at all.


Don't play dumb. I pointed out what the fallacies were. There is no smoking gun, and you don't know if your theory is the REAL story.

And the story about the meds use in the link you gave me was retracted.




Opinion, which you are entitled to. Others disagree.


No, it is not opinion, your thread is based on speculation, just like the other threads. You have no right to advertise this as the REAL story.




But then again. You and I keep going down this road, account after account, don't we? Let's table your personal agenda if we are going to be honest. Shall we?


Do we? What are you accusing me of? I am a shill?

What is my agenda then?

Mods accusing members of being shills because it doesn't go their way. Nice.

So because I disagree with the premise of your thread, and point out the flaws, like members are supposed to, I have an agenda?

Is there a reason for your paranoia?



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 





and that a relative stated Adam had been on medication recently.


Why are you repeating this? I already pointed out that this story was retracted, it said so in your own link.


UPDATE: Since the publishing of this article, New York Daily News has removed the reference, the originator of the quote from Lanza's "uncle," because they believed him to be an "imposter." Read more: www.businessinsider.com...
edit on 26-12-2012 by SPayne because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by SPayne
 


Instead of attacking the OP, why don't you focus your aggression on the data?

Is it because you cant?






posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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There is no medication for aspergers.
There is no link between aspergers and violent tendencies.
edit on 26-12-2012 by JBA2848 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


What do you mean? I'm attacking the premise of the OP. Can you honestly say that it is not solely based on speculation?

What data? Those studies show what can happen, they don't prove that Lanza was on meds, or that the meds actually caused it if he was.

There is no smoking gun at this point, and we don't know if this is the real story.

Do you feel that the op needs your help? Because I'm pointing out the obvious?



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by JBA2848
 


Aspegers has been mentioned, but is not definitive or conclusive. If his mother was seeking to have him committed, which there is evidence to support, then the implication is that there was more going on than that.

Published reports are also saying that Adam has a particular fascination with assault weapons in online video games. I am not sourcing them as I think every teenager with an X-box or PS3 and a FPS game probably also has a favored weapon.

I mention here simply to help paint a broader picture of the person.

When the police finally do release their findings publicly, the medication question may or may not be answered. Medical records are protected - so there might not be an answer.

We do know that the preponderance of previous spree killers have had a commonality of psychiatric meds, particularly SSRI's and SSNRI's.






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