China unveils new transport (A400M/AN-70/C-17)

reply to post by Dustytoad


The production version is supposed to use new WS-20 engines, which will be a higher bypass turbofan, so it will appear to be more like the rendered version than the prototype.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


I too find it interesting that many in the USA and worldwide look at China as being a great intellectual powerhouse and yet it seems through the years that so much of what they have acquired is from other countries secrets of design... They're Government should not be considered great for anything other than being the best at acquiring design secrets at cut rate prices. They will and have paid billions for pirated intellectual properties both government and corporate. Wherever there is money there is always the opportunity to acquire from another human all sorts of secrets.

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

So they copied a c17 huh.

No.

Is it just me or is China not capable of developing anything on their own.

It is just you.

They are developing an industry from scratch - they are "so dumb" that they buy in ideas (using their massive trade surplus) to give them a head start that took the US 50 years to develop.

They are still 20+ years behind the US in most respects - but 10 years ago they were 40 years behind.

They are very clever, and very rapidly catching up.

They think we are so dumb yet have to copy everything we develop or buy Soviet leftovers.

As above - moreover what they think you are "so dumb" for is exporting your manufacturing industry, and running a massive trade and government deficit so you are over a Trillion Dollars in their debt. And many others, around the world and in the USA, agree with them on that point!

But that is another discussion......

Their stealth fighters look uncannilly like a F-35 / f-22 also, but looking the same and understanding the technology and materials is completely different. It does seem blatant copying but what can you do? Russia on the other hand seems to have its own ideas (although lately the stealth shapes seem familiar).

I with the rubber chicken too, you would have to be mad to think that US development of weapons systems, medicine, technology and manufacturing (etc) = dumb.

Its for an entirely different reason some Americans are considered dumb by more than just China.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

As above - moreover what they think you are "so dumb" for is exporting your manufacturing industry, and running a massive trade and government deficit so you are over a Trillion Dollars in their debt. And many others, around the world and in the USA, agree with them on that point!

But that is another discussion....

So would you call the rest of the world "dumb" for exporting their manufacturing industry to China and running similar trade deficits?

You know that Europe is not too far behind the US right?

So what is your point? We are worse somehow?
Fact is we are still leaders in many fields, and draw a crowd when ever we grace the world with new advancements in medicine, computer technology, aeronautics, space travel, and others, just to name a few on a very long list.

What flag is on Mars on our rovers and the moon and on the probe is leaving the solar system soon and on the probes monitoring the Sun for dangers as well as those exploring our solar system? yeah, we are retards....

The J-20 is a knock off of our F-22. The transport mentioned here is not original either, (from OP)

Pictures of the new Chinese Y-20 (apparent designation) transport have been released. It appears to be a hybrid A400M/AN-70/C-17. In some pictures it appears to be a turbojet A400M, while the pics on the ground appear to be an AN-70 style nose, while the tail section appears to be that of a C-17. In July 2009, a Boeing employee was convicted of selling C-17 technical details to the Chinese.

www.popularmechanics.com...
This article from popular mechanics shows how they need to steal just about everything. Russia has always developed its own technology. That is why they are not like junkies following the US around hoping for some loose change to fall out of our pockets.


They are not bright enough to develop their own designs yet people think they are as smart as they think us dumb.

As far as them advancing so far in such short time, I give them NO credit. All they have done is demonstrate their ability as thieves NOT as engineers and innovators.

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

As above - moreover what they think you are "so dumb" for is exporting your manufacturing industry, and running a massive trade and government deficit so you are over a Trillion Dollars in their debt. And many others, around the world and in the USA, agree with them on that point!

But that is another discussion....

So would you call the rest of the world "dumb" for exporting their manufacturing industry to China and running similar trade deficits?

You know that Europe is not too far behind the US right?

So what is your point? We are worse somehow?

Nope - the conversation was just about the US.

What flag is on Mars on our rovers and the moon and on the probe is leaving the solar system soon and on the probes monitoring the Sun for dangers as well as those exploring our solar system? yeah, we are retards....

You are the only one saying so......

The J-20 is a knock off of our F-22. The transport mentioned here is not original either, (from OP)

Pictures of the new Chinese Y-20 (apparent designation) transport have been released. It appears to be a hybrid A400M/AN-70/C-17. In some pictures it appears to be a turbojet A400M, while the pics on the ground appear to be an AN-70 style nose, while the tail section appears to be that of a C-17. In July 2009, a Boeing employee was convicted of selling C-17 technical details to the Chinese.

www.popularmechanics.com...
This article from popular mechanics shows how they need to steal just about everything. Russia has always developed its own technology. That is why they are not like junkies following the US around hoping for some loose change to fall out of our pockets.

lol - Russia always developed its own technology?

Like it's jet engines - starting with the British Nene, Rockets with the V2, Jet aircraft based on the Me-262 in the first instance, atomic bombs with thanks to the Manhattan project spies? Or the Tu-4 "knockoff" of the B-29, the Concordski Tu-144? Etc.....

You are such a hoot - civilisations have copied technology forever - go back as far as the Romans - the Roman sword was the Gladius Hispanicus - the Spanish sword, Gauls invented chain mail armour, and hte pila was adopted from the Etruscans.....

Take the US Bill of rights - a knock off of the British 1689 declaration of rights including the right to bear arms, the US Senate - IIRC the first Senate was Rome wasn't it ....

They are not bright enough to develop their own designs yet people think they are as smart as they think us dumb.

They are plenty bright enough to say
"hey - that's a good idea - let's see if we can make it work too"

As far as them advancing so far in such short time, I give them NO credit. All they have done is demonstrate their ability as thieves NOT as engineers and innovators.

And all you do is demonstrate your own ignorance and latent racism.

You cannot simply look at a design and it will work - it still takes engineers to make the detail, discover the intricacies and subtleties, and make it work.

China has more graduate engineers per annum than the USA. Sure they do not have the deep and historical industrial base of knowledge - but hey are building it.

People like you with you head in the sand are in for a rude awakening when you suddenly find a Chinese flag on the moon at a time when you can no longer manage to do it yourself.

Anyways, having looked at the images of the Y-20, rather than any of the previously mentioned types, I think the Y-20 is extremely reminiscent of a scaled up, 4 engine Anotonov An-148.

Anotonov has been pushed out into the cold by Russia with very slow progress on the An-70 and the very same An-148 being subject to govt pressure on Russian domestic operators to ignore it and buy the homegrown Sukhoi Superjet instead.

The nose of the redesigned Y-8 transport also looks very similar and that, of course, is a Chinese version of the ancient An-12.

Did Antonov find a survival plan?

GeoEye images show that the wingspan of the prototype is between 45m and 50m, which is in the 147 foot range. That puts it longer than the IL-76, but smaller than the C-17. There's still conjecture about the cargo hold and capacity, as well as the engines. It's believed right now that it uses the D-30 used by the Tu-154 and Il-76MD, but could move up to either the WS-18 or WS-20, or even a military version of the CJ-1000A used on the C919. If they were to do that, it could potentially produce more thrust than the F117 used on the C-17.

First flight occurred 1/26/13. It made a short flight with the gear extended the entire time.

37 seconds. Is that tail a disaster waiting to happen? Extremely wobbly just after touchdown.

Interesting video out of China, showing the Y-20 flying, and some good closeups. If you look though, the landing gear appears to show an aircraft that will be restricted to paved runways (per an analysis I read), and is fairly light compared to other aircraft of the type.

Im surprised China didn't buy into the Ilyushin Il-476.
Compared to previous IL-76 aircraft, the IL-476 reportedly offers an 18% boost to range, a 12% improvement in fuel consumption, better performance in hot temperatures and high altitudes, and a 10.6% improvement in cargo load. It also reportedly complies with international noise and emission standards, which affects the routes it can be certified to fly.

reply to post by Jezza


Russia might not have offered it to them, or it might not be ready in time for them. Russia gets the first three next year, and are getting 48. I would bet that they have the priority on them, and it would be a few more years before China could get them.

Originally posted by waynos
37 seconds. Is that tail a disaster waiting to happen? Extremely wobbly just after touchdown.

Not terribly uncommon with thrust reversing. Or on a hard touchdown.



Edit: C-17 landing

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Interesting video out of China, showing the Y-20 flying, and some good closeups. If you look though, the landing gear appears to show an aircraft that will be restricted to paved runways (per an analysis I read), and is fairly light compared to other aircraft of the type.

Nearly full-length triple-slotted flaps, full-length slats and thrust reversal. I don't think I'd take that bet on the gear; possible, but unlikely.

reply to post by _Del_


Even with the hard touchdown, the C-17 tail seemed a lot more rigid. The wobble on the tail on zaps video put me in mind of the movie 'No Highway', lol ( I do love an old aviation movie )