China unveils new transport (A400M/AN-70/C-17)

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posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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Pictures of the new Chinese Y-20 (apparent designation) transport have been released. It appears to be a hybrid A400M/AN-70/C-17. In some pictures it appears to be a turbojet A400M, while the pics on the ground appear to be an AN-70 style nose, while the tail section appears to be that of a C-17. In July 2009, a Boeing employee was convicted of selling C-17 technical details to the Chinese.

It appears that there is even an AWACS version of the aircraft envisioned.

Actual aircraft:


Renderings:










posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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So is this supposed to be a bad thing?



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by RooskiZombi
So is this supposed to be a bad thing?


The OP not ATSy enough for you? He likes aircraft..

To me it's a bad thing, because I used to have dreams of thousands or aircraft that looked liked that dropping tanks and millions of paratroopers all over my home..

China seems to have one main problem with their Army and that is their mobility.. Of course no one is all over the world like the US is, so they are still the scariest.





Like This..





Here's a comparison C-17

edit on 12/25/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by Dustytoad
 


Their big problem is going to be the same one that Russia currently has, and that's the engines. They have been testing a new engine that appears to be more reliable than previous engines, but they're still not anywhere near the level of the US or the UK. Russia has made big strides, thanks to Pratt&Whitney and other Western engine makers, but even their engines aren't up to Western standards. In fact P&W is developing a geared turbofan specifically for the new Sukhoi transport that is being developed.



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I noticed the rendered images including the top picture in my post that I stole off you,
, had bigger appearing engines than the actual images from the ground.. I was thinking they probably didn't have the power to be truly like a C-17.. Looks like a cheap Chinese copy.. Not that I know anything about the aircraft, but it does look like that.

It also looks less agile, just by the shape..

Anyone else think C-17s look like flying whales?



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Dustytoad
 


They currently use the WS-18, which is the Chinese version of the Russian D-30KP-2. It produces 23,150lbs of thrust. The C-17 uses the F117-PW-100, which is a much bigger engine all around, at 40,400lbs of thrust.

The Y-20 will be between the A400M and the C-130 when it comes to payload. The C-130 carries 45,000lbs of cargo, the A400M comes in at 81,600lbs of cargo. The Y-20 will come in around 60,000lbs of cargo.



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 

Sorry, I respect your passion for war machines, but to me it looks awful, as any other war tool out there.
Wasted money and to much paranoia in world's governments.
Another proof we are in the right way to destroy ourselves with huge amount of weapons built to kill a human being.



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by zilebeliveunknown
 


It's not a passion for war machines, it's a passion for aircraft. The military is what's driving the advancement of aviation at this point in time, although the civilian side is starting to catch up with some of the military advancements of the last few years.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 




The military is what's driving the advancement of aviation at this point in time, although the civilian side is starting to catch up with some of the military advancements of the last few years.
Well said.
The military has also driven the advancement of trauma medicine, electronics and many other fields.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I hope it cost them billions more in development and each blows up before taking off.

So they copied a c17 huh. Is it just me or is China not capable of developing anything on their own.

They think we are so dumb yet have to copy everything we develop or buy Soviet leftovers.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I hope it cost them billions more in development and each blows up before taking off.

So they copied a c17 huh. Is it just me or is China not capable of developing anything on their own.

They think we are so dumb yet have to copy everything we develop or buy Soviet leftovers.


Ah, who knows how 'dumb' they are?

They let us spend millions on development, design, testing and all that goes with putting a new plane in the air, then they copy it. Sounds like they saved a lot of time and money.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by zedVSzardoz
 


I'd say they are pretty smart. This just made its first flight this month, and will be in operational service by like 2016 or so IIRC. That's a pretty fast development considering that they announced it in 2009. The C-17 by comparison took over 11 years from the start of the competition to first flight. It was 15 years from competition to the first squadron being operational. China is looking at half that for the Y-20.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


Yes I am sure that is all true, but we had to develop it from zero. They had the homework done already. Do you think they could develop this in that same time frame if they had to start from scratch with no US reference?

I think not.

EDIT:
I think they are smart too. I actually admire them. Respected enemy status for me.
I just think its ironic how they see us as "half wit fat Americans" yet they love to steal everything we make.
edit on 26-12-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by zedVSzardoz
 


No, but that's the point. They're pretty smart to wait for others to develop it, and then take advantage of that work, and have a new plane in service in half the time. I'd love to see the Air Force be able to put a new plane in service that fast, whether they developed it from scratch or not.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


If all the air force was concerned with was matching other nations I am sure they could. The US tries to raise the bar and stay technologicaly superior. That is harder I would guess.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by zedVSzardoz
 


China is currently trying to play catch up right now. So what they're doing is going to advance them years in a short period of time. They still fly license build copies of older Soviet fighters, as well as newer ones. They are in the same boat as the Air Force is in right now. Their aircraft are old, and they rely on numbers to overwhelm any opponent. Now they're trying to switch to a more US philosophy of warfare, and go for quality over quantity, with two fifth gen fighters, and new transports, and a carrier. But they have to learn how to do it first, so this will teach them a lot. I still say it's pretty damn smart.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by zedVSzardoz
 


No, but that's the point. They're pretty smart to wait for others to develop it, and then take advantage of that work, and have a new plane in service in half the time. I'd love to see the Air Force be able to put a new plane in service that fast, whether they developed it from scratch or not.
The development and production of the North American P-51 would be a case where it happened extremely quickly, but in wartime circumstances... and I doubt that anything could ever be done like that today.

Mustang Timeline



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by zedVSzardoz
 


I recall that during my teens the latest Chinese prototypes revealed by Flight International were the Y-10, a transport copied from the 707 that was abysmal and only one was ever built, and the Shenyang Fantan, a remodelled MiG 19 that was deployed as a rather feeble tactical attack aircraft.

At the time the MiG 19 was long obsolete and the 707 had ended production years before with the 757 and 767 in development. Chinas main defence fighter in full production was still a slightly modified variant of the MiG 21 version that Russia stopped building in 1960.

Now they are at a point where they are copying current production aircraft, including drones, and in the case of their F-35 clone, planes we don't really have yet (fantasy triangles notwithstanding).

Once they HAVE fully caught up it will be interesting to see where they go next, and a little scary.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


The last truly fast development of an aircraft were the U-2 and SR-71. The U-2 was 18 months from design to flight, and the SR-71 wasn't far behind. Just about everything after that took at minimum from several years to over a decade from design/contract award to operational.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by waynos
 


I remember reading the story of the 727 that they copied, that they were begged not to fly because it would have taken a gorilla to move the control yoke. Just based on that, I have to agree with you. It wasn't that long ago (relatively speaking) when that happened, and now they're capable of copying our best, in 10 years or so, it'll be really interesting to see what's coming out of China.

Even their new designs for commercial aircraft aren't half bad. The C919 is a pretty nice looking aircraft, as is the ARJ21. Although the ARJ21 reminds me a lot of an early DC-9.





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