reply to post by wildtimes
Thanks for your response! I'll be the first to admit that Islam doesn't shy away from the death penalty, BUT it requires a proper system of justice in
place, you can't have random people meting out death sentences if they feel that something unislamic is going on. Also, there are several traditions
of Muhammad that impose "innocent until proven guilty" to an extreme that it could be "innocent until there isn't any sliver of possibility that
they're anything BUT guilty". There is a hadith that it is better for there to be a mistake made in granting someone innocence rather than a mistake
in them being said guilty. Another tradition states that it is better that a 100 (some versions say 1000) guilty people get set free rather than one
innocent person be punished.
As for your question as to how muslims should deal with these extremists, you might not know, but they already are. I believe that there is a
statistic that 80% of the radicals caught by the FBI in the US are by the help of a muslim person reporting them. In fact, an agent provocateur was
discovered after a muslim reported them to the FBI for radical behaviour (when the FBI was the one who had put him there...talk about trust). I've
linked before on ATS the (literally) thousands and thousands of religious groups and leaders who condemn terrorism and radicalism.
And I hate to bring up the blame game, I really hate it because it attempts to simplify things to one side or the other, when honestly it is never
TOTALLY one side's fault. For example, these splinter extremists groups always existed in Islamic society, and they had their peaks and troughs, but
they were usually marginalised and sidelined in any place that mattered. However, due to interference from outside forces:
- Saudis regained power when they allied with the British who wanted them as a force against the Turks
- The Taliban gained power because the US trained and stoked their religious zeal as a weapon against Communist Russia.
- Hamas gained power through the help of Israel who wanted someone to be able to counter Fatah (and now they're used as an excuse for continued
- The Iranian regime gained power when the US brought down the democratically elected Iranian government and tried replacing it with a puppet shah.
Now I admit, these outside forces wouldn't have been able to do such things if such sentiment didn't already exist in society (in whatever small
amount), so the responsibility lies on the society as well. I'd say there are 2 main things to fight in this regard...the money and influence of these
extremist groups, and the ignorance of the people they're targetting. In response to that, I'd say that the solution is education, and I believe that
slowly but surely, that will work (you can already see how the Taliban are terrified of that).
Another thing would be to break down the divide between "Us" and "Them". You participate in that too, probably unconsciously
with your dividing it
into "us westerners" and "you muslims". I'm muslim, but I'm also a "westerner" (not from the US, though). In the US, muslims make an admittedly small
percentage of the total population (estimates go from less than 1% to almost 2%), but then again, jews make up barely 2% as well, and nobody doubts
their influence on what the United States are. And the claim that it is all just "immigrants flooding our country" is fairly false (although if it
wasn't, so what? The US is a country made up of immigrants)- did you know that almost a third of the slaves brought over from Africa were muslim?
I'm not picking on you, of course..there is a wider issue at play, with certain groups trying to demonise or "other"ise muslims, like this "global
shariah threat" thing you brought up. I've discussed it before
, and it is total
hogwash... In fact, I'd say there is more chances of the US turning into a "Christian Law" country (although probably not for the next 4 years) than
Islamic Shariah state.
Now of course, again, it isn't all only one side's fault. There are these fringe groups that you could pick up and claim to be proof that it is all
evil. But then it all spirals out of control from there..one side says the other is evil, the other side says "Look, they're calling us evil, they
must be evil", and an unending cycle is then set in place. Again, I'd say education and learning about the different sides is an important way to
break out of this.
reply to post by eight bits
Don't worry, I didn't feel targeted, we're all just having a conversation here. I suppose the OP could've used some other belief system as an example,
but I'd say that Deism is somewhat the poster child for natural theology. Aside from that, yes, I suppose this all came down to a misunderstanding (or
misuse) of words involving "not caring" about what is written. That particular mix-up wasn't directed at you, but If the error is on my side, I
apologise. I just read it how I saw it, since the OP presented the information as an "check out this interesting stuff you may possibly not have known
about, where Islam has a similar view to that of deism". I suppose using the term "natural theology" would've been more appropriate, but again, I may
be putting words in his mouth, but it seemed to me to be part of a whole "look how we're similar" thing, that worked better with an actual "religious"
edit on 5-1-2013 by babloyi because: (no reason given)