Another China School Attack: no guns required What is wrong with them? And us?

Latest China Attack
Now let me be clear, I am not trying to automatically indicate that more guns are good but I am also not really convinced that less guns are good. I, like most of you I suspect, fall somewhere in the middle. I respect our Constitution and find the timing of some of the gun related events (including the reopening of the UN gun Treaty debate voted on Monday, you know Christmas Eve when most Americans are distracted, which in itself it *shocking* since big moves never happen on days when it is obvious that most of the US will be distracted.../end sarcasm) New UN Gun Debate suspicious. It is unsettling how the timelines for some of these things just seem to "come together". Distracted populous, recent tragedy, cue the music and restart the show to see if we can get a big finish this time. I am not (not) speculating as to the nature of the events that took place at Sandy Hook. I am a parent who finds even focusing on that event far too uncomfortable, but, I do think that the firemen shooting and the latest Chinese attack continue to show that something is very, very wrong in Whoville. There are a lot of theories, opening discussed as to the "template" for the China attacks. How the fast paced changes in their society are creating an environment in which a certain displace element are turning to violence and violence against children particularly. Where is the honest and open discussion of the same themes in the U.S.? It isn't about the guns. It is about what causes these people to pull the trigger. I know that MKUltra, Psyops, and False Flags are things that interest those of us who congregate here, but, what about the deeper questions? It isn't just "oh we need less guns" or "oh we need better mental health programs". Why are these people going crazy (if indeed they are, I don't always rule out MKUltra, Psyops, or False Flags, If I did I wouldn't spend so much time here)? What is wrong with us ATS? Is this just the stress of the modern world? Is it the great combination of GMO, vaccinations (though I get nervous I do vaccinate), hormones in milk, two working parents or single family homes, more hours at work and less pay? Is it one of these more than the other? I guess ATS that I am asking you to put the kind of analytical and outside the box thinking which can be so prevalent here to good use. This country needs a think tank devoted to this issue. One willing to actually look at the hard issues, connect the disparate dots, and then formulate some real responses. This is not a call to be spiteful to each other for having different opinions on guns. In China they had no guns in the last two attacks. Guns make the expression of the underlying problem more damaging but they do not cause the problem and their removal will not solve it. So what's our problem?

Mods; Forgive me, move, or delete if in the wrong place or already posted.

I am not trying to automatically indicate that more guns are good but I am also not really convinced that less guns are good.

reply to post by watcher3339


Evil people do evil things.
Guns or not, but the anti-gun nuts side with the murders and try to stop good people from protecting themselves.
People being killed by bombs and knifes don't fit their agenda.
And if it was not for you, I may have never heard this story.
S&F

Originally posted by watcher3339
Latest China Attack

...rammed a car loaded with a gas tank and firecrackers into a group of middle schoolers, injuring 13...

As always, the problem isnt criminals with guns, its law abiding citizens who "snap", go crazy and attack.
In the USA, he would have owned a gun.

It can't be stopped, I don't know much about China's situation but the US has gotten in to a situation that isn't going to get better. There's almost as many guns as people, and those guns make it a lot easier for people to kill, there are certainly to blame for many, many deaths. On the other hand, you can't make all the guns vanish, and if you introduce gun control the uncivilized apes in the community just make things worse. No where to go. The one thing that can really be done is to stop selling guns, then over a long time things will get a bit better.

Originally posted by SpearMint
It can't be stopped, I don't know much about China's situation but the US has gotten in to a situation that isn't going to get better. There's almost as many guns as people, and those guns make it a lot easier for people to kill, there are certainly to blame for many, many deaths. On the other hand, you can't make all the guns vanish, and if you introduce gun control the uncivilized apes in the community just make things worse. No where to go. The one thing that can really be done is to stop selling guns, then over a long time things will get a bit better.

That is a very sensible position.

I am so torn on the issue myself for those very reasons. If we could just make "the guns go away" society would be safer- It would... But as you point out, we cannot and any transition will leave us as prey to the criminals. The genie is out of the bottle here and there is no putting it back in.

I also want to have the means to protect myself because I trust myself- its the rest of you all. =P

say what you want about china but what i got from this article is they have their stuff together when it comes to the media and this notice how they didnt identify the crazy? they are smart enough to realize that publiziing it gives the whacko his fifteen minutes of fame and they denied it to him so as weird as it feels to say this score one for Chinese reason

Originally posted by RalagaNarHallas
say what you want about china but what i got from this article is they have their stuff together when it comes to the media and this notice how they didnt identify the crazy? they are smart enough to realize that publiziing it gives the whacko his fifteen minutes of fame and they denied it to him so as weird as it feels to say this score one for Chinese reason

I think you make an interesting point about how things get handled. I can't help but wonder how many fewer repeat events we might have if offenders were less written about and and more caught alive and then publicly punished in an extreme manner. We have all sorts of people in jail in this country and the punishment is pretty much the same for every crime. That seems off and not enough to discourage people from committing hardcore violent crimes.

reply to post by watcher3339


Just out of curiousity, how some people believe the recent shootings in the US has a political agenda to inforce a gun ban, is there a political agenda in China which would conspire with the stabbings/attempted killings in China.

Just found this:
China passes mental health law

mental health dispute

The BBC's John Sudworth in Shanghai says many of the attackers have been mentally disturbed men, prompting a debate about the effects of China's recent, rapid social change and the inability of an antiquated hospital system to cope with rising levels of mental illness.

School stabbing focuses on China's Mental Health
Translation of China's new mental health law

article 27 is of concern. Involintary detainment do to menal health.

Just a shame.



Adults taking out their anger and frustration on innocent people, kids.........

It doesn't matter on how and why. Its disgusting behavior. These are the situations that make me lose faith in Humanity.

Prayers for ALL the victims.

Originally posted by Alchemst7
reply to post by watcher3339

 

Just out of curiousity, how some people believe the recent shootings in the US has a political agenda to inforce a gun ban, is there a political agenda in China which would conspire with the stabbings/attempted killings in China.

My understanding from other articles (not linked) which I had read previously, is that the manufacturing sector is expanding so quickly there and life is changing so fast that some men (unable to find wives and have a child in part due to the one child policy) feel left out and lost and are snapping. It also struck me that the two societies experiencing this kind of senseless violence have very little in common except for their trade relationship and the degree to which commercialism is changing both of their societies.

Seems a bit strange to me that in the US most of the leftys / libs. think it is just fine that since 1973, roughly 50 million legal induced abortions have been performed in the United States. And then act so outraged when some nut job kills 20 kids. Then they donate money to the ACLU, whose lawyers make it next to impossible to commit the nut jobs and are behind closing mental hospitals and turning loose said nut jobs. Then they say ban guns, yep that will fix it,

To answer the question in the title. The vast majority of Chinese are not crazed lunatics out to stab children in schools.

The vast majority of Americans whether, legitimate gun owners or not, are not crazed lunatics out to shoot children in schools.

The problem we have, likely the same in China, is a system that allows dangerously mentally ill people to fall through the cracks with no treatment or controls of any kind.

Originally posted by projectvxn
To answer the question in the title. The vast majority of Chinese are not crazed lunatics out to stab children in schools.

The vast majority of Americans whether, legitimate gun owners or not, are not crazed lunatics out to shoot children in schools.

The problem we have, likely the same in China, is a system that allows dangerously mentally ill people to fall through the cracks with no treatment or controls of any kind.

I think that there is likely a lot of truth to that. In this country it is easy to lay the blame at political correctness and a life long effort (very sweet and all) to make everyone (at least seem like they) fit in. I don't see China suffering from an inability to call out a non functional individual so why do you think they have the mental health issue? Just lack of concern for that particular area?

Again, not well learned on China's population sociology. Overall, this "news" leads to gun talk in the US. Can't get rid of evil by getting rid of guns. You can, though, increase evil by getting rid of guns... AKA: "Gun Free Zones" one only needs to look ay FBI statistics. Don't believe them? Then don't believe anything else the government tells you either. Such as guns are bad. Picking and choosing one's belief is gutless.

reply to post by SpearMint


I agree with you that removing all guns is the answer because i'm British and have lived in an entirely gun free society since 1996 when all hand guns were banned after a school massacre which killed 16 five year olds and their teacher at Dunblane primary school in Scotland. One such atrocity was enough for the British people and the handgun ban was implemented less than a year after the incident with almost total public support.

In the almost 17 years since Dunblane there have been no more such massacres and the total British gun murder rate is around 35 a year. In the US which has a population 5 times larger this would translate to 175 gun murders a year while the actual current figure is apparently around 11,000 which is absolutely staggering when you think that anyone could even sugegst far less seriously imagine that the answer is a nation awash with even more guns.

I also agree that the British solution is much more difficult to apply in the US because frankly you have a society of gun nuts unequalled anywhere in the first world and vast numbers of them appear deranged to people who grow up in Britain and largely spend an entire lifetime withour ever seeing a single gun of any kind. We see them ranting about shooting anyone who tries to take their guns which suggests they weren't even fit to own a weapon of mass destruction in the first place. And further rants about needing guns to fight "tyrannical government" and when I see that I think WHAT???

Tyrannical government? You see in my country if a government is unpopular we dispose of them at the ballot box without ever thinking I need to get a gun to kill them. That's what civilised democracies do but the American gun loons appear to want anarchy not democracy. I fear the US has dug itself into such a deep hole after decades of pandering to these nuts that I can see no way out of it.

And by the way it concerns me more than it normally would at this time because i'm currently living in Oklahoma which is a state with less than 4 million people but even this small state all on it's had triple the gun murders of Britain in the past year while Britain has around 15 to 16 times the population.