Lights over Phoenix & Illinois: Solid Proof

By now, if you consider yourself open minded in anything UFO, you've heard of the Phoenix Lights and the Sightings Over Southern Illinois.

These comprise evidence as solid as any. Please feel free to add other similar videos.

It's downright ludicrous to think that there are no visiting extraterrestrial intelligence after viewing either of these. But if you haven't seen them, watch them both for comparison. A lot of uninformed cynics really have to get off square one. There's a lot more to discuss than merely whether extraterrestrials exist. They do.

What else can they be. It's silly to choose to stay ignorant.

I remember my first thread...


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I keep repeating this, but whenever there's a good case like the ones you cited, it's the failure of every ufologist, famous or unknown, not to immediately file FOIA requests for the U.S. Weather Bureau and FAA radar data for the time and area of the event. For Governor Symington to not have thought of that for the Phoenix Lights case might be excusable, but what excuse do ufologists in the U.S. have? None. What about next time?

I wouldn't call it solid proof, but S&F for the thread.

Originally posted by xpoq47
I keep repeating this, but whenever there's a good case like the ones you cited, it's the failure of every ufologist, famous or unknown, not to immediately file FOIA requests for the U.S. Weather Bureau and FAA radar data for the time and area of the event. For Governor Symington to not have thought of that for the Phoenix Lights case might be excusable, but what excuse do ufologists in the U.S. have? None. What about next time?

I wouldn't call it solid proof, but S&F for the thread.

As the ATS website suggests for acronyms and shorthand, please explain. You lost me.

But regardless of filings with any government agency, which would beg the question of "to what affect?" — the hundreds of witnesses alone are solid proof enough. Why not? [but what is S&F? what is FOIA?]

By the way, I believe the documentaries have already mentioned that FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) was involved.

reply to post by FormerSkeptic


To the OP (original post/poster)...while you're enthusiasm and questions are warranted, you might want to use the search function as many of your answers and posts have been discussed and discussed and discussed.... Study other posts to learn how to earn S&F (stars and flags) if you care. FOIA (freedom of information act) is an important aspect to conspiracy theorists, and to ufologists. just CYA from TPTB (the powers that be)....

PROOF:  

noun
1.
evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2.
anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3.
the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.
4.
the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.
5.
Law. (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.

I suggest you start by reading the plethora of threads about these "events"
here is a sampling:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

slapping up a couple of youtube vids and calling it solid proof is like walking into a crowded firehouse and yelling"Movie"!

Originally posted by Toxicsurf
reply to post by FormerSkeptic

 

To the OP (original post/poster)...while you're enthusiasm and questions are warranted, you might want to use the search function as many of your answers and posts have been discussed and discussed and discussed.... Study other posts to learn how to earn S&F (stars and flags) if you care. FOIA (freedom of information act) is an important aspect to conspiracy theorists, and to ufologists. just CYA from TPTB (the powers that be)....

edit on 24-12-2012 by Toxicsurf because: (no reason given)

Thank you for the explanation. But my topic here is not for my own seeking of answers. It's more a reminder to the many cynics who don't seem aware of such widely available proof. Besides, how boring would it be here if nothing new is allowed because previous discussions have already touched on the topics. Just do a search. Right.

In other words, if you're tired of discussing it, you don't have to participate. Let those with more enthusiasm enjoy. Why not?

Then also, there are equally new and enthusiastic non believers who have NOT heard of what seems like old news to you. And for one side to simply ignore the other is divisive — hardly "intelligent discussion."

reply to post by FormerSkeptic


S&F means a star for your opening post and a flag for your thread, since those are two good cases you cited.

FOIA is the Freedom of Information Act. NORAD is exempt, since it"s not solely a U.S. organization. But you can get the weather and FAA radar data if you file within (I think) 15 days, and it takes them about six months to deliver. MUFON and NARCAP have radar experts capable of interpreting the data. With the right equipment, it can be played back as if live on a radar screen. A Belgian general did that for the press with the radar data from an F-16, and FAA investigator John Callahan had someone do that and synchronize it with the audio tape in the JAL-Alaska case, which he videotaped for a briefing.

reply to post by FormerSkeptic

Besides, how boring would it be here if nothing new is allowed because previous discussions having already addressed similar topics.

2 things

1. You have added nothing new to the discussion!
2. Rehashing the same info over and over again by every new user who is too lazy to use the search function adds nothing to the discussion and detracts from the threads where people did research and actually looked for new and relevant information!

A wise member of ATS(that is Above Top Secret) once said'
"if you're here to use ATS as your personal "bully pulpit" to inflict your views on the rest of the world, logic, the truth or civil debate be damned, you might want to find another forum.

To add a little to that... FOIA is the Act passed to allow any citizen to outright demand any record held, produced or created by Government as the People's Business...so to speak. In this area, it's priceless for being able to get the mundane data like others have said....Radar tracks and that sort of thing. A FOIA can be filed and if the request isn't for data within predefined criteria of off-limits, you are supposed to get the data back that you've requested.

Of course, reality of how that works? lol... I know a number of ATS members have used the FOIA process and a couple threads in here describe it. I vaguely recall at least one that follow a guys step by step in filing and getting back FOIA on something.

Now what is neat about this and helpful to add is that under Obama, Efficiency has become almost a religion for it's own sake as well as budget cutting. As part of that, what I've noticed is the indexing and online display of all previous FOIA requested documents for anyone to download at will so many times now, if someone else has already asked and received? It may be up to prevent the same agency from wasting time running another request they are legally required to fill. Hope that helps a bit!

here's why the phoenix lights was a real ufo event;





fyfe symington lied through his teeth, by his own admission, to 'dispel hysteria' about something he and the authorities could not explain. and we got this farcical 'press conference' to make the subject seem silly.

reply to post by FormerSkeptic


I agree ...

how many witnesses does it take to constitute evidence in a courtroom trial?

with so many to the Phoenix event its stupid for people to not take it seriously..

I also agree its B$ that starting a thread on an existing topic is closed..

if you make your opinion known in a thread already started on a topic

and disagree your a called a troll, and mods penalize you, or you get point taken for derailing a thread..

your opinion has no place to be voiced.

seems like a way to control discussion if you ask me..I've seen this change over the last 10 years or so on these boards..

reply to post by reeferman


As if nobody else had written this (or able to reach such conclusions on their own), here's my analysis. I'm offering this despite nobody offering any rebuttal to the validity of the Phoenix and Illinois events (instead, just meaningless berating of the subject).

1. I think, therefore I exist (the all important Cartesian rule to get established)
2. I have viewed the documentaries with valid witness testimonies, therefore I believe the events to have actually happened
3. All witnesses consistently and independently revealed a humongous levitated object, therefore the object really existed
4. It's not random, not natural, not chaotic, but not unique or isolated, therefore there's only one valid explanation
5. There's absolutely nothing conceivable in current human technology that can explain it, therefore the object is not manmade
6. There's total lack of connection to every other conceivable "supernatural" phenomenon (spirits, vampires, bigfoot, lochness, etc.)
7. There's absolutely no other plausible theory other than extraterrestrial origin, therefore it has to be extraterrestrial (beyond Earth)
8. Anything or anybody coming to Earth from beyond Earth has to have enough intelligence to travel the vast distances

Therefore, the UFO is an intelligent extraterrestrial spacecraft.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, chances are it's really just a duck! Just use the same reasoning you use in your daily life for anything else. But of course there's still a very slim chance that it's not. It's only very very highly probable. It's not absolute proof, but it's SOLID PROOF.

reply to post by FormerSkeptic

5. There's absolutely nothing conceivable in current human technology that can explain it, therefore the object is not manmade

Just because you can't conceive anything in current human technology to explain it.....doesn't make it so!

If you are trying to validate your argument with absolutes....then you need to provide proof of those absolutes.....and I don't think you can.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by FormerSkeptic

 

5. There's absolutely nothing conceivable in current human technology that can explain it, therefore the object is not manmade

Just because you can't conceive anything in current human technology to explain it.....doesn't make it so!

If you are trying to validate your argument with absolutes....then you need to provide proof of those absolutes.....and I don't think you can.

There is a such a thing as REASON! This is what is truly ruining ATS, is that your trying to install fear into people that have an interest in ufo's Trying to shut down people and implying that they can not use REASON is infantile !

Unfortunately, as far as we can go on both "the Phoenix lights" and the Southern Illinois sightings is the they are unidentified.

There is plenty of reason to suspect they were extraterrestrial in nature. You certainly can not prove that they were not. Yet, proof that these were ET is just not there.

Plenty of other actual contact cases provide more proof. For me, the work of Dr. Roger Lier stands out. He has actually collected proof of implants, along with some of the most outstanding video proof (Turkey 2009ish). If you don't know about Lier, I would recommend that you google him.

It is doubtful that we will ever see our government put solid evidence of aliens on the table for all to see. 5 billion people believe in God in one form or another and such a move would destroy those beliefs and send the world into chaos. That is what they believe to be true anyway. They are probably correct in their assumption.

having been in Phoenix at the time of the phoenix lights i Do Not cite the event as proof of extraterrestial intelligence soaring over the city


it might be more like a open sky demonstration of dark project technology from up there in secret facilities in Nevada... who flew the triangle craft all over AZ in order to guage public hysteria/ reaction/ et al



see. on the night of Dec 3rd, at 715 W. Mariposa, Phoneix (some 3 months earlier)... i witnessed a triangle formation of lights
no more than 60' up and perhaps 75' north of my residence... which would put the craft on the south side of Camelback Road... the mercury vapor colored lights were at best guess 12' apart in a triangle formation

the 3 light formation was traveling west for appox 30 minutes then buzzed over my yard again but returning eastward... best guess a silent drone craft, with an onboard self piloting navigation system which was doing a practice surveillance flight which used Camelback Road street lights & 11 PM car traffic to glide at least 87th Ave and returning from my vantage point very near the center of the city @ central avenue


so you see why i am skeptical about an ET Craft story...

it all fits with covert black ops tech coming from either a Nevada or a Mojave destert facility testing pilotless crafts in real time situations with actual people witnessing the trials flights... for some unk. reason(s)

reply to post by jimmiec


The sad irony is that we have even less proof that God exists and yet no one questions the existence of God. For the record I DO beleive in a Divine Creator but i am running on faith than in seeing the proof. Anyhow as to UFOs to say that they dont exist and dont visit is sheer arrogance. Dont ask me why they are visiting, i guess there is something here of some interest to them. Perhaps the sheer diversity of life that exists. Are Humans special? I dont think so, not in the grand cosmic scheme of things.

Perhaps the real question is not whether there is intelligent life out there...is there any on Planet Earth!!!

reply to post by FormerSkeptic

Thanks for keeping the Phoenix case alive. We are 8:30 pm witnesses to the large craft. In the Phoenix Lights doc, I appear about the 16 minute mark. Although I have issues with the good Dr Lynne, she did allow me to speak my mind on the entire matter. It's going on 16 years now since our sighting.

Many mistakes were made in the so-called investigation. I wrote an article called, "The Non-Investigation of the Phoenix Lights". Just google mike fortson phoenix lights All my writings about the case are at theufochronicles.com