The 2nd Amendment STILL Important to National Defense?

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posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


That depends on what happens next doesn't it?
Not that I'm worried,I'm armed.
edit on 24-12-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by queenofswords
reply to post by michael1983l
 


I truly feel sorry for you. I don't say that to be condescending, but there is a deeper layer to this issue that many people don't comprehend. They don't place the same value or depth of meaning on Liberty. Liberty is a living breathing part of the American spirit. It's a personal thing and we maintain it by sacrifice and holding tightly to our 2A. (This doesn't mean there shouldn't be laws against convicted felons and the mentally ill obtaining guns, however.)



Sorry you cant have it both ways

Either the 2nd Amendment is infallible and NO ONE shall have the right to bear arms infringed or it needs to be repealed so that criminals and crazies cant access them.
If it can be changed so criminals and crazies cant get them it can be changed so no one can!!!

Face it, the 2nd amendment is outdated and the only reason you all cling to it so much isnt because you love freedom and liberty (patriot act anyone?) its because you love guns and will say any old drivel to justify keeping them



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by michael1983l
 


That depends on what happens next doesn't it?
Not that I'm worried,I'm armed.
edit on 24-12-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)


Guess what, I'm not armed and I'm also not worried because I am not lay awake at night worrying about an impending invasion from an enemy that doesn't exist. If there was a true chance of an invasion, then the British Army holds enough weapons to distribute amongst the population if required. But guess what that is never going to happen. I can sleep safe at night knowing full well that I am not going to be getting shot when I go to the Mall tomorrow.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


I beg to differ with you. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The 2A is not outdated. I will say this, however. I think many of those demanding that our 2A be done away with are people in other countries. Perhaps they have a deep resentment of Americans because we have refused to bow down to individuals in our government that verbally spit on our Constitution and seek to repeal our most important rights.

The Patriot Act got passed us because we were emotionally charged after 9/11. FOOL US ONCE....



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by queenofswords
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


I beg to differ with you. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The 2A is not outdated. I will say this, however. I think many of those demanding that our 2A be done away with are people in other countries. Perhaps they have a deep resentment of Americans because we have refused to bow down to individuals in our government that verbally spit on our Constitution and seek to repeal our most important rights.

The Patriot Act got passed us because we were emotionally charged after 9/11. FOOL US ONCE....



Ive never seen anyone on here demand anything let alone doing away with the 2A.
We are simply offering an observation that to the rest of us is blatantly obvious.

It looks to me, based mainly on what Ive read on this forum that you have very few actual rights left,
Freedom of speech is fine as long as you watch what you say
Your right to public assembly is safe provided you dont do it to criticise the gov
Your right to be judged by a jury of your peers is still in place unless your a terrorist (a somewhat ambiguous term) in which case you can be locked up indefinately

So it seems according to yourself and many other gun advocates that the right to have a gun under the bed is the most important right to Americans.
edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by WP4YT
 


So 20 of your children dead is not a price to pay for lax gun laws? I'd say it is a pretty damn high and unacceptable price to pay. But as it wasn't your kids at your school your inherant selfishness means that you probably don't give a #.
20 out of 350 million? Im more worried about my children getting hit by a car when they cross the road. Look, i know you are just a NWO disinfo agent trying to initiate a tskeiver, but why don't we talk about alcohol laws in great Britain for a moment. Far more children are dying because of alcohol in your country than guns in ours. Sorry you "blokes" love your liquor just as much as we love our guns



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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You're a foreigner, I don't hold that against you. We have some history with the meaning of the 2nd amendment in America, I'd suggest looking to the Supreme Court cases on it. Of particular is the Heller case in 2008.

Up until 2008 it wasn't widely regarded that individuals had the right to bear arms. In fact, up until the mid-late 1970's is was accepted that the second amendment applied to the militia's or the state militaries, not necessarily the individual. Though, guns were acceptable as they were very important parts of the expansion west during the 19th century and were generally regarded as just a part of American life.

I believe the second amendment can still be important with regards to the state military but not applicable to individuals under certain circumstances. The Supreme Court disagrees and, I believe, a lot of Americans disagree with me too.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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So it seems according to yourself and many other gun advocates that the right to have a gun under the bed is the most important right to Americans.

It's Number Two. Without it, all the other rights are nothing but words on paper. Again...2a is insurance.
edit on 24-12-2012 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-12-2012 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by queenofswords
 


So it seems according to yourself and many other gun advocates that the right to have a gun under the bed is the most important right to Americans.


It's Number Two. Without it, all the other rights are nothing but words on paper. Again...2a is insurance.


Well its a terrible insurance policy and the premiums seem to be the life of innocent people and even children at schools.

Once again, guns have done nothing to stop your freedoms being stripped so far and as long as you all have the illusion of safety and the "Im safe in my fortress with my gun" mentality they wont do you any good ever
edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)
edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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edit on 24-12-2012 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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Well its a terrible insurance policy and the premiums seem to be the life of innocent people and even children at schools.

Once again, guns have done nothing to stop your freedoms being stripped so far and as long as you all have the illusion of safety and the "Im safe in my fortress with my gun" mentality they wont do you any good ever
edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)
edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)


As I said, there is a depth to this issue that many can't see. That's okay. Others do see it. Our freedoms have not been stripped. The attempt to weaken them is an ongoing process, but it will only go so far. There is a tipping point beyond which is acceptable. We are, after all, a civilized society regardless of your warped perception.

People hell bent on doing harm to others will do it regardless of whether guns are available to them or not. They will strap bombs around their waists and walk into a crowd of (unarmed) people and detonate. They will get on a subway full of innocent (unarmed) people and release a canister of gas (remember Japan?). Mental illness and hate-mongers that seek to impose their will are the real culprits.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by queenofswords
 


So it seems according to yourself and many other gun advocates that the right to have a gun under the bed is the most important right to Americans.



It's Number Two. Without it, all the other rights are nothing but words on paper. Again...2a is insurance.

Well its a terrible insurance policy and the premiums seem to be the life of innocent people and even children at schools.

Once again, guns have done nothing to stop your freedoms being stripped so far and as long as you all have the illusion of safety and the "Im safe in my fortress with my gun" mentality they wont do you any good ever
edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)
edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)


Tell that to the people who have saved their families with guns.

And the whole freedom being stripped thing, they did it by manipulating the VERY same nerve that is causing you to react as you are. They're playing on peoples heart strings in an attempt to get them to willfully hand over their rights for the sake of safety. That, my sir, is EXACTLY what you are doing, right this very minute. Use the media to POUND IT into people that 20 beautiful children died, and people will be giving their guns back to the Gov to "make them safe". It has already started.

Do not pretend that you understand the 2A, because you clearly don't. It's a part of growing up american, and knowing that you were given unalienable rights over 300 years ago that aren't supposed to be infringed upon, EVER, for the TRUE greater good. It's nearly a culture. Like rap music and coffee shops. It's not a negative culture, like you or others would portray it. You never heard about the 100 million people that collectively own 300+ million firearms in this country, because they're not breaking laws. They're going about their days leading normal lives, and they just happen to own firearms to protect themselves. Local news stations are abound with stories of people defusing crimes with their carryable weapon. No national media covers it, because it's not good for the elite plan. Get with it.
edit on 24-12-2012 by mattdel because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-12-2012 by mattdel because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 04:37 PM
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Very little to do with " national " defence , but rather civil defence from a tyrannical government .
The way the government was set up was to be full of various checks and balances and the right to bair arms was the last line of those checks and balances by placing power in the citizens hands .



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by therealdemoboy
 
It was not intended only for outside invasion......it was also intended for domestic situations.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff


Once again, guns have done nothing to stop your freedoms being stripped so far and as long as you all have the illusion of safety and the "Im safe in my fortress with my gun" mentality they wont do you any good ever
edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)
edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



Well at least we take some personal responsibility for ourselves and those that depend on us. You will be calling the cops and like those school children will learn what a few seconds of havock can be reeked on your small world. We on the other hand will be reeking back. You are part of the coward generation....you cant defend yourself and carp at those who can.

Not to mention for the very large part the 2nd can only be used in the face of unauthorised deadly force. That is if the government ever goes crazy like the school shooter then we can break out the 2nd.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

Originally posted by queenofswords
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


I beg to differ with you. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The 2A is not outdated. I will say this, however. I think many of those demanding that our 2A be done away with are people in other countries. Perhaps they have a deep resentment of Americans because we have refused to bow down to individuals in our government that verbally spit on our Constitution and seek to repeal our most important rights.

The Patriot Act got passed us because we were emotionally charged after 9/11. FOOL US ONCE....





So it seems according to yourself and many other gun advocates that the right to have a gun under the bed is the most important right to Americans.
edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



It sure is....when the government goes deaf, justice fails on a large scale....yea. Talking and all else will be about as worthless as your points here today.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by mattdel
 





Tell that to the people who have saved their families with guns.


How about you tell it to the people who have lost family members due to guns, A hell of alot more than have been saved Im guessing.




And the whole freedom being stripped thing, they did it by manipulating the VERY same nerve that is causing you to react as you are. They're playing on peoples heart strings in an attempt to get them to willfully hand over their rights for the sake of safety. That, my sir, is EXACTLY what you are doing, right this very minute. Use the media to POUND IT into people that 20 beautiful children died, and people will be giving their guns back to the Gov to "make them safe". It has already started.


Im not American and dont watch any MSM news, even before all this stuff started happening 12 years ago I knew guns were bad. Honestly I dont care if you have guns or not, Its not gonna be me or mine that get shot up in a mall or heaven forbid at a school. Just sharing what I see to be blatantly obvious.




Do not pretend that you understand the 2A, because you clearly don't.


I feel somewhat of an expert on the 2A now after having it thrown at me as an excuse for idiocy countless times over the past few weeks.
"The right to bear arms shall not be infringed" It makes no provisions for the criminally insane, so either it wrong or even criminals with known homicidal schizophrenic tendencies are entitled to carry as well.
You choose, wrong and needs to be addressed or crims are allowed guns?




It's a part of growing up american, and knowing that you were given unalienable rights over 300 years ago that aren't supposed to be infringed upon, EVER, for the TRUE greater good.


I dont wanna be this guy but it was only 235 years ago not 300+
And again great the rights shall not be infringed upon EVER for the TRUE greater good. Tell the next gun victims parents that while your passing that shiny new AK to the murderer who just got out of jail.




It's nearly a culture. Like rap music and coffee shops. It's not a negative culture, like you or others would portray it. You never heard about the 100 million people that collectively own 300+ million firearms in this country, because they're not breaking laws. They're going about their days leading normal lives, and they just happen to own firearms to protect themselves. Local news stations are abound with stories of people defusing crimes with their carryable weapon. No national media covers it, because it's not good for the elite plan. Get with it.


A culture that promotes a tool of death isnt bad??? maybe the 100+ million arent breaking any laws but where do the people who are breaking laws get the majority of their guns?
The elites are the ones who make the guns, if they didnt want you to have them they would have stopped making and selling them long ago.

Wake up
edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by Logarock
 





Well at least we take some personal responsibility for ourselves and those that depend on us. You will be calling the cops and like those school children will learn what a few seconds of havock can be reeked on your small world. We on the other hand will be reeking back. You are part of the coward generation....you cant defend yourself and carp at those who can.


LMAO I love that, I dont own a gun so Im fearful or a coward

Yep your a big tough man with your gun, anyone tried to hurt me or mine they would be in serious trouble.
Ive confronted someone trying to break into my house without fear and yes I called the cops, they arrived 10 min later and I IDd him and he went back to jail, no weapons necessary and everyones happy.




Not to mention for the very large part the 2nd can only be used in the face of unauthorised deadly force. That is if the government ever goes crazy like the school shooter then we can break out the 2nd.


Good for you, you hang onto your guns for the POSSIBILITY you may need them against the gov (if you do your dead anyway) and while your waiting, find a way to deal with the CERTAINTY that while guns are everywhere people will keep dying in ridiculous numbers. But since its not you or yours you probably dont care.

I shouldnt have even got involved in this thread, talking to gun nuts is like banging your head against a brick wall only less productive.

I henceforth ban myself from all gun related discussions

edit on 24/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l

Guess what, I'm not armed and I'm also not worried because I am not lay awake at night worrying about an impending invasion from an enemy that doesn't exist.


neither do we. you probably dont because the military will hand out weapons to yous guys. we like to skip the step of gun handouts by capitalizing of ownership.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by MrSpad
No. An armed population has no chance against an modern military force. While partian activtity would be possible the problem would be if the enemy did not have a problem killing civilians. Against say most western nations it would be possible because they would not say exterminate an entire town for a single attack. If you were dealing with Chinese or the Russians on the other hand... So no the Red Dawn fantasy is just that a fantasy. However, that does not make the second amendment any less valid.


I'd give negative stars as I could. Allow me to retort. Against a modern military force, unless you exterminate the entire country, the defending force will win, over time. Each act of inhumanity (like your wiping out an entire town) would only cause the people that had been trying to survive by keeping their head down to actively pick up a rifle.

The civilian population in Afghanistan has been pinging away at the US military for how long? Yes, I realize that our Rules of Engagement in Afghanistan (and world opinion) keep us from doing the really mean and nasty stuff. However, the insurgents have old russian weaponry in limited supply. In the United States the citizens would have amongst them the most finely educated people in the world. These people have amongst them individuals with degrees in subjects like chemistry, mechanical/electrical engineering, architects, etc etc. You motivate them and give them a common enemy and it's going to get unbelievably ugly.
Add to that the stashed weaponry that's been in hiding for years. You don't earn your place as the #1 arms dealer on the planet without leaving some acorns buried. Plus all of the illicit stashes that have come from leaking in the US supply chain that the real deep underground militias (yes they exist) have buried for a rainy day.

No single country can conquer the US on our own soil without killing us all with bioweapons, and those have a nasty habit of coming back to sit in your lap.





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