Senseless gun violence spreading, 4 firefighters shot in NY

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posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by MikeNice81
 


You beat me to it. I was getting around to that point. You and I know they will never put those stories on the air...It's not part of the script.




posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by GuidedKill

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by GuidedKill
reply to post by Alfie1
 


Crazy is crazy...do you really think having a law to ban guns is going to cure that?? A crazy person could steal a large dump truck and drive through a large public gathering....Would that not be as tragic and shooting someone?


The difference is that the sole purpose of guns is to kill.

Motor vehicles can take brides to weddings, the sick to hospital, familes to picnics etc etc etc.


The sole purpose of knives are to kill as well, but you can use them to prepare family dinners, cut open letters and presents, cut ropes and straps etc...

Just cause some crazy idiot used something in a manner to hurt someone else doesn't mean you ban the item they chose to use. You address what made the person do it, not that you could anyway. Those "crazy" people usually take their life instead of face any kind of opposition like say another person with a gun attempting to stop them.


The sole purpose of knives is to kill ? Are you kidding ? knives are invaluable in the kitchen. How would we do without them ? Guns, on the other hand,have limited value for dicing carrots.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by GuidedKill

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by GuidedKill
reply to post by Alfie1
 


Crazy is crazy...do you really think having a law to ban guns is going to cure that?? A crazy person could steal a large dump truck and drive through a large public gathering....Would that not be as tragic and shooting someone?


The difference is that the sole purpose of guns is to kill.

Motor vehicles can take brides to weddings, the sick to hospital, familes to picnics etc etc etc.


The sole purpose of knives are to kill as well, but you can use them to prepare family dinners, cut open letters and presents, cut ropes and straps etc...

Just cause some crazy idiot used something in a manner to hurt someone else doesn't mean you ban the item they chose to use. You address what made the person do it, not that you could anyway. Those "crazy" people usually take their life instead of face any kind of opposition like say another person with a gun attempting to stop them.


The sole purpose of knives is to kill ? Are you kidding ? knives are invaluable in the kitchen. How would we do without them ? Guns, on the other hand,have limited value for dicing carrots.


Are you kidding me?? When knives or edged weapons were created there weren't kitchens...They were created by earlier civilizations for KILLING. Do you really believe a cave man created edge weapons with the idea of one day having a cooking show on food network.
edit on 24-12-2012 by GuidedKill because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by Alfie1
 


Guns do serve a purpose, and most certainly higher than taking brides to weddings or you to work.

It ensures you and your generation remain free should one day a rogue govt takes over the nation and enslave all of you under totalitarian rule, as evident and happened to many other nations in our world


Interesting that you should bring that up as it is one of my favourite subjects. We in the UK don't need all your millions of guns because we have a Queen. Often derided from the other side of the atlantic but they don't realise that the Queen could negate any rogue government. She can dismiss the prime minister and the armed forces swear allegiance to her.

Forget your guns mate and get a head of state who isn't head of government.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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All these gun threads seem to be missing the point.
I know that as a Brit I have no business telling you what to do with your own country, but it really strikes me that all you ban guns mob are doing is messing with the symptom.
Really what you ought to be doing is trying to figure out what it is that's wrong with your society that is causing people to go so nuts that they feel the need to do this.

I wonder if better health care provision might go some way to helping those with mental problems get sorted out, for one thing.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by Alfie1
 


Guns do serve a purpose, and most certainly higher than taking brides to weddings or you to work.

It ensures you and your generation remain free should one day a rogue govt takes over the nation and enslave all of you under totalitarian rule, as evident and happened to many other nations in our world


Interesting that you should bring that up as it is one of my favourite subjects. We in the UK don't need all your millions of guns because we have a Queen. Often derided from the other side of the atlantic but they don't realise that the Queen could negate any rogue government. She can dismiss the prime minister and the armed forces swear allegiance to her.

Forget your guns mate and get a head of state who isn't head of government.


Laughable!!!!

Your queen has about as much power as you do...

The Queen's power is primarily honorary. She or any reigning monarch, cannot enter the House of Commons, Parliament, unless she is invited as a guest. Prime Ministers often seek the Queen's advice and they must go to her when they wish to dissolve Parliament. One of the reasons for the distinction is that the Queen is the titular head of the Church of England., and a definite separation of church and state is maintained.
The Queen and other monarchs before her are always kept up to date on political issues.
I tend to be a monarchist. I see the monarchy in Great Britain as the solid enduring base on which Britain and what's left of the commonwealth can stand and survive. In times of great turmoil, the politicians can make the tough decisions with quiet diplomacy with the monarch, but the monarch is called upon to show the grounded strength that is Great Britain and, by doing so, to ease the fears of the people.
Britain has a Constitutional Monarchy. It is not the kind of monarchy where the reigning king or queen is the government.

LINK



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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Whether the queen has the power or not is moot. She never uses it.
Poll tax, cctv, rip bill, detention without trial, secret courts etc.
If she gave a damn, she'd stop them, but never has.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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WTF is going on here? I just read this story, and as a former EMT, this breaks my heart.
I know the anti gunners will come here and say see? Ban guns! all the while it aint the good guys doing this, its the ones that wouldnt obey a gun ban
I say arm the citizens, when this crap happens,. shoot the scumbag dead, thats it. Maybe when enough people start shooting these dirtbags, the rest of em will get the hint and stop it.

already posted:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 12/24/2012 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by GuidedKill

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by Alfie1
 


Guns do serve a purpose, and most certainly higher than taking brides to weddings or you to work.

It ensures you and your generation remain free should one day a rogue govt takes over the nation and enslave all of you under totalitarian rule, as evident and happened to many other nations in our world


Interesting that you should bring that up as it is one of my favourite subjects. We in the UK don't need all your millions of guns because we have a Queen. Often derided from the other side of the atlantic but they don't realise that the Queen could negate any rogue government. She can dismiss the prime minister and the armed forces swear allegiance to her.

Forget your guns mate and get a head of state who isn't head of government.


Laughable!!!!

Your queen has about as much power as you do...

The Queen's power is primarily honorary. She or any reigning monarch, cannot enter the House of Commons, Parliament, unless she is invited as a guest. Prime Ministers often seek the Queen's advice and they must go to her when they wish to dissolve Parliament. One of the reasons for the distinction is that the Queen is the titular head of the Church of England., and a definite separation of church and state is maintained.
The Queen and other monarchs before her are always kept up to date on political issues.
I tend to be a monarchist. I see the monarchy in Great Britain as the solid enduring base on which Britain and what's left of the commonwealth can stand and survive. In times of great turmoil, the politicians can make the tough decisions with quiet diplomacy with the monarch, but the monarch is called upon to show the grounded strength that is Great Britain and, by doing so, to ease the fears of the people.
Britain has a Constitutional Monarchy. It is not the kind of monarchy where the reigning king or queen is the government.

LINK



The monarch has absolute power in the UK. But, by convention, that power is now only exercised through her ministers.

However, in the unlikely event of a rogue government who thinks, for example, that the next general election can be postponed indefinitely, we have the protection of a Queen who can dismiss the prime minister. And if the prime minister thinks he can call on the armed forces for support I have no doubt they will obey the Queen.

Any UK government must beware the Queen. Seems much better to me than having millions of guns.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by GuidedKill
Nearly 100 people die daily from Auto Accidents....Maybe we should start bringing national attention to them and ban cars.....Link


Now go and compare what is needed to own or drive a car, compared to what is needed to own a gun.

Go and check how many Americans drive, compared to how many own a gun.

Go and read up on how easy it is to drive a car into a school and run little kids over...

Your comparison is asinine, and any sane person on ATS can see that.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by GuidedKill
Your queen has about as much power as you do...


Wrong, factually wrong.


Try harder.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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Senseless unless part of an agenda...then just heartless. I hope that they capture the shooters alive. My fear is that this will escalate to the police and be blamed on "patriots and preppers" to prep them for taking a stand against the american people if and when we go to martial law.....



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:39 PM
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This would not even make the news on a normal day. Unfortunately, the media is doing everything in their power to demonize firearms and firearm owners. Nearly everyone on CNN is calling for anyone who does not immediately "hand their guns over" to be killed by drone attacks. I'm not even joking.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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He was a felon who had killed his grandmother,don't see how gun control of any type would have stopped a criminal,who chose unarmed subject to ambush like a terrorist then burn down seven houses.Had he been executed for that murder this would have been prevented.
VERY SUSPICIOUS these events happening all at once since Obama was elected.Like I said before expect more. "They" want our guns more specifically they want our ability to resist curtailed.
edit on 24-12-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by GuidedKill
Nearly 100 people die daily from Auto Accidents....Maybe we should start bringing national attention to them and ban cars.....Link


Now go and compare what is needed to own or drive a car, compared to what is needed to own a gun.

Go and check how many Americans drive, compared to how many own a gun.

Go and read up on how easy it is to drive a car into a school and run little kids over...

Your comparison is asinine, and any sane person on ATS can see that.


The difference is that you are driving an automobile on the roads with a bunch of other people so even if you do not mean to inflict bodily harm, it's a very real possibility if you have not been educated on how to operate an automobile. Most people buy a firearm and leave it in their house as "insurance", never to be used. You cannot say the same for an automobile.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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Already posted someone beat you

www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=15606215#pid15606215



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by GuidedKill
Nearly 100 people die daily from Auto Accidents....Maybe we should start bringing national attention to them and ban cars.....Link


Now go and compare what is needed to own or drive a car, compared to what is needed to own a gun.


A license. Both


Go and check how many Americans drive, compared to how many own a gun.


75% of the population drive, about 32% LEGALLY own a gun


Go and read up on how easy it is to drive a car into a school and run little kids over...


Theoretically it should be easier to run kids over in a school because schools are a GUN FREE ZONE


Your comparison is asinine, and any sane person on ATS can see that.

Both are safe items in educated and sane hands and are very dangerous in illegal and insane hands.
edit on 24-12-2012 by micmerci because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I was wondering if this was enough dead to register here

this place is going to be busy, there are 34 murders with guns every day in this country


Most of those are drug dealers and other criminals extinguishing each other and doing the rest of us a favor. Let's not leave out that information, okay?

I used to live on Irondequoit Bay and I have water skied past those houses many many times. Such a nice place to have to endure such an evil act. Unfortunately it is in New York and the taxes and the economy sucks there.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by MikeNice81
My question is a simple one. Why does CNN cover the story of shootings like these, but not stories of successful defense?

Here are a couple of stories you will never see on CNN.


While at home with his wife and daughter, a homeowner prepared to go outside to investigate a sudden power outage. His wife asked him to carry his firearm with him as a precaution. As he opened the front door to step outside, three men charged him in an attempt to gain entry. The homeowner pushed his wife aside as he fell backward and fired at the intruders. His daughter, a student in her early 20s, hid in another room and called police. One of the three home invaders suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was listed in serious condition. The remaining two suspects managed to escape. The homeowner and his family were not seriously injured. (Sun Sentinel, Miramar, FL, 10/2/12)



Kendra St. Clair, a 12-year-old at home alone one day during her fall break, called her mother at work to say there was a man repeatedly ringing the doorbell and banging on the door. When no one answered the door, she said he disappeared. St. Clair’s mother instructed her daughter to get her .40-cal. Glock pistol and go into a bathroom closet. St. Clair heard him break in through the back door. As the man made his way through her home, 911 dispatchers kept St. Clair on the phone. He was inside the home for approximately six minutes before he made his way to the bathroom where St. Clair was hiding. When she saw the door knob begin to turn, she fired the gun. The 32-year-old intruder was taken into custody after being treated for a gunshot to the chest. (The Oklahoman, Durant, OK, 10/20/12)



Roosevelt Maggett was at home recovering from cancer treatment when a burglar knocked on the door, pushed him over a chair and tried to choke him to death. “He grabbed me,” Maggett explained. “He said, ‘I’m going to kill you.’” Despite his weakened state, Maggett was able to reach for a firearm. “I guess the good Lord gave me the strength to get him up off me,” he says. Maggett fired one round into the burglar, killing him. (WMC-TV, Memphis, TN, 11/26/11)
edit on 24-12-2012 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)


A burglar knocked on the door, pushed him over a chair....etc, what sort of reporting is that?
Besides, trying to bring in the gun lobby about the OP's incident in this fashion is pretty pathetic.
The first story could have had a different outcome, especially when it mirrors almost exactly what a SWAT did without challenge to an ex-soldier/marine in his own home. The marine was shot dead because of the gun in his hand. That just shows the mayhem that abounds with guns, even with officialdom, or perhaps especially with officialdom.

www.huffingtonpost.com...
edit on 24-12-2012 by smurfy because: Link.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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What a terrible thing to happen on christmas eve of all days, more families destroyed.

Being a UK citizen, apparently my opinion on these matters is invalid...we british still allowed to comment on this stuff given the recent backlash against any UK citizen who states an opinion? Threads directed at them, etc?

Of course it's awful that anyone would do such a thing, lunatics are everywhere in the modern world.

The fact that these idiots can arm themselves so easily is a small price to pay to exercise a constitutional right. What's worse about this is that while these men were under attack, a fire continued to burn with the potential to kill more people.

Don't mean to cheapen this thread, but what can I say really? It angers me to see people make ridiculous statements, comparing road accidents and knife crime to gun crime, like it or not cars and knives actually do have a function in society, guns don't. If people can't be trusted to handle a knife responsibly or drive a car...why should they be given such easy access to guns, an implement that's specifically designed to destroy? You can't drive a car without acting like a maniac, you can't even own a knife but you want to stick it in someone...but here's a gun - that works.

So determined are people not to give up their guns they're talking about using them - the cold dead hands stupidity...and there's crazies like the NRA wanting to put armed guards in schools. That's what kids need when some nutters with guns invade their school - a shootout! Yeah, get trigger-happy dirty harry and his mates in to be heroes...absolute stupidity.

Now I'll get slated again...told I don't understand this and that, yadda yadda - it's not the constitutional right itself that worries me, it's the fact that so many people are determined to exercise it...because they want a gun end of story. It's the fact that they're sold in supermarkets, that pretty much anyone can get one. I know people can get guns here...I couldn't, even if I wanted to and I don't. I wouldn't know where to begin obtaining a gun...nor can I think of any non-destructive reason to want one. People who live in rural areas who need them for protection against wild animals etc I can understand to some extent, although I imagine people lived alongside those critters long before humans had access to guns...but people in cities? It needs more controlling, it's too late to ban them, but it's not too late to stop selling them to other lunatics.

I thought things were bad here in the UK, I'd hate to be there, people taking random shots at you from all directions, be scared to leave the house, talk about unease and paranoia.

I'm completely done with these threads now because it's pointless, and I'm not american, so what I think doesn't matter.






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